Traktion Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I found this and thought it was interesting. http://business.financialpost.com/2012/06/08/euro-fears-boost-virtual-currency-bitcoin/ Fearful of the future, Europeans are moving their money out of their banks and dumping it into safe havens such as U.S. Treasuries, Government of Canada bonds — and apparently the virtual currency Bitcoin. ‘We’re getting requests from people saying, can we mail you euros? We can’t do that legally, but they keep asking’ “European volume has been skyrocketing,” said Charlie Shrem, chief executive of BitInstant LLC, a company in New York that enables clients to transfer funds between Bitcoin and U.S. and Canadian dollars, British pounds, euros and other major currencies. According to Mr. Shrem, the sudden rise has been driven by people in countries like Greece, Italy, Spain — and even the Netherlands — anxious to protect their savings. “We’re getting requests from people literally saying, can we mail you euros? We can’t do that legally, but they keep asking.” The bad news out of Europe is benefitting safe haven countries, pushing down borrowing costs for a whole swath of governments. On May 30 the yield on the benchmark 10-year U.S. Treasury slipped to 1.6%, the lowest since the Second World War. Ten-year bond yields in Germany, France and Canada have all hit record lows in recent weeks. Even the U.K. is getting a lift. But why is Bitcoin caught up in the frenzy? The darling of techies, hipsters and, increasingly, currency traders, it was created back in 2009 as an Internet-only currency regulated by a network algorithm. Traditional currencies, the thinking went, are cumbersome and expensive to use in online transactions. Every time a purchase is made, fees must be paid to a bank or credit card company. Costs are even more onerous when one currency is converted to another. Bitcoin solved these problems and others as well, since it operates outside the payment systems operated by the banks. More importantly, it’s not under the control of any central bank or government. In fact, the supply of Bitcoins is controlled by an algorithm. Proponents argue that makes it safer than traditional fiat currencies and essentially immune to the political pressures. .. Bitcoin seems to be the e-money which doesn't want to due. In fact, it seems to be going through a resurgence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I found this and thought it was interesting. http://business.financialpost.com/2012/06/08/euro-fears-boost-virtual-currency-bitcoin/ Bitcoin seems to be the e-money which doesn't want to due. In fact, it seems to be going through a resurgence. So when the state collapses and the lights go out how exactly do you access your e-money??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilEdna Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 "Bitcoin solved these problems and others as well, since it operates outside the payment systems operated by the banks. More importantly, it’s not under the control of any central bank or government." So completely unregulated then - hmmm. Not where my hard-earned's going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 So when the state collapses and the lights go out how exactly do you access your e-money??????? If all the oxygen ran out, we'd all die too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 "Bitcoin solved these problems and others as well, since it operates outside the payment systems operated by the banks. More importantly, it’s not under the control of any central bank or government." So completely unregulated then - hmmm. Not where my hard-earned's going. The supply is regulated by the Bitcoin software. I've got far more faith in constant software algorithms than politicians, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 If all the oxygen ran out, we'd all die too! ??????? Oxygen is not reliant on the continuation of the state the internet is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepLurker Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 So when the state collapses and the lights go out how exactly do you access your e-money??????? If the state collapsed completely, I for one would have far more pressing problems than accessing my money (be it e-money, £, or shiny stuff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 If the state collapsed completely, I for one would have far more pressing problems than accessing my money (be it e-money, £, or shiny stuff) Well you wouldn't be able to access your e-money would you which is why it's ridiculous to suggest it as an alternative to a state backed currency Also if the people holding your e-money decide to steal it who is going to get it back? The state? What state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Police Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Bitcoin will never penetrate big business and big business is the ultimate decider on what money is in predominant use. Would a large corporation trust it's cash management team with a few billion in anonymous cash stored onsite? No, and likewise they wont trust them with anonymous e-money. Edited June 10, 2012 by Police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbatst2000 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Well you wouldn't be able to access your e-money would you which is why it's ridiculous to suggest it as an alternative to a state backed currency Also if the people holding your e-money decide to steal it who is going to get it back? The state? What state? This isn't an argument for using it (it's going to take a lot more than that to persuade me to abandon more normal financial assets) but the technical point about bitcoin is that, assuming you know what you're doing, it would be exceedingly difficult for anyone to steal it. Its security is based on the impossibility of solving certain mathematical problems so, short of detaining you and torturing your password out of you, it's secure. The same can't be said of money stored in a bank account or even physical gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbatst2000 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Bitcoin will never penetrate big business and big business is the ultimate decider on what money is in predominant use. Would a large corporation trust it's cash management team with a few billion in anonymous cash stored onsite? No, and likewise they wont trust them with anonymous e-money. I can see that it might penetrate the borders of big companies to some extent. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that one of the large tech firms might start taking small payments in bitcoin form if one or other of the various exchanges gains enough scale to allow them to trade it for more normal currency pretty much immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Bitcoin will never penetrate big business and big business is the ultimate decider on what money is in predominant use. Would a large corporation trust it's cash management team with a few billion in anonymous cash stored onsite? No, and likewise they wont trust them with anonymous e-money. money is what it is.....a means of exchange.nothing more. in some ways the bitcoin thing is quite a good idea,because it breaks the monopoly of state issued currencies. and these guys really,really hate competition.however monopilies/oligopolies are not really what is best for the wellbeing of nations/people in general. .....I think on the whole a bit of competition for a more honest money system is just what the doctor ordered...it will keep them sharp and a bit less abusive of "customer service" when there are other products on the market which do the same job cheaper/better. they seem to forget that all businesses have a shelf-life,and from time to time need to be replaced by a younger,more virile specimen. pulling up the drawbridge on knowledge/finance/politics etc,far from being their crowning glory,is actually their own death warrant.....they are fearful and old and stale. now all it needs is somebody in the whitehouse to legislate properly. ..ie what is the legal definition of a US dollar?? ..........ok so it actually IS backed by gold and silver,and for a few decades people have been paid in FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES,not US dollars.(small difference). Most people,on their employment contracts,however,will have it stated that their salary will be paid in US dollars(so therefore have not been paid in the appropriate manner for some time)...I do like wordplay! ...so the recompense in future should be in US dollars,or their metal,backed equivalent(that will really piss the corporations off). even more so if it is ordered backdated. Edited June 10, 2012 by oracle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyOne Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 http://coinmill.com/BTC_calculator.html Bitcoins seem to be money ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbatst2000 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 money is what it is.....a means of exchange.nothing more. in some ways the bitcoin thing is quite a good idea,because it breaks the monopoly of state issued currencies. and these guys really,really hate competition.however monopilies/oligopolies are not really what is best for the wellbeing of nations/people in general. .....I think on the whole a bit of competition for a more honest money system is just what the doctor ordered...it will keep them sharp and a bit less abusive of "customer service" when there are other products on the market which do the same job cheaper/better. they seem to forget that all businesses have a shelf-life,and from time to time need to be replaced by a younger,more virile specimen. pulling up the drawbridge on knowledge/finance/politics etc,far from being their crowning glory,is actually their own death warrant.....they are fearful and old and stale. now all it needs is somebody in the whitehouse to legislate properly. ..ie what is the legal definition of a US dollar?? ..........ok so it actually IS backed by gold and silver,and for a few decades people have been paid in FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES,not US dollars.(small difference). Most people,on their employment contracts,however,will have it stated that their salary will be paid in US dollars(so therefore have not been paid in the appropriate manner for some time)...I do like wordplay! ...so the recompense in future should be in US dollars,or their metal,backed equivalent(that will really piss the corporations off). even more so if it is ordered backdated. I think you're over-analyzing this myself. What 99.9% of people want from money is some faith that it can be exchanged for goods at a predictable value - hence the use of the dollar bill over large parts of the world where the local currency doesn't meet that requirement. A few people in government also care that they can print the stuff on demand but even they're in the minority I suspect. After all, the 17 countries in the Eurozone all joined in the full knowledge that they would not be able to print their way out of a default in extremis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilEdna Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 The supply is regulated by the Bitcoin software. I've got far more faith in constant software algorithms than politicians, tbh. You should always distrust people in power - the person running the algorithm has the power in this instance and with very few checks and balances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbatst2000 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 You should always distrust people in power - the person running the algorithm has the power in this instance and with very few checks and balances. It's hard to know where to start trying to unpick that level of confusion and (pardon the word but it's the correct one in this case) ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Police Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I can see that it might penetrate the borders of big companies to some extent. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that one of the large tech firms might start taking small payments in bitcoin form if one or other of the various exchanges gains enough scale to allow them to trade it for more normal currency pretty much immediately. Of course - but it will never be a replacement for state-backed traceable and auditable depositories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Police Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 You should always distrust people in power - the person running the algorithm has the power in this instance and with very few checks and balances. Shhhhh. Better not to open your mouth at this juncture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 ??????? Oxygen is not reliant on the continuation of the state the internet is Rubbish! The internet doesn't need the state. Even if the current Telco infrastructure collapsed*, ad-hoc mobile/WiFi would take over. * As Telcos even exist in Somalia, I doubt that would happen either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Well you wouldn't be able to access your e-money would you which is why it's ridiculous to suggest it as an alternative to a state backed currency Also if the people holding your e-money decide to steal it who is going to get it back? The state? What state? They can't steal your bitcoins. It is impossibly hard to find them, let alone decrypt them. You also don't need much power or connectivity to access them. You can store your wallet in your head and create transactions offline, posting them where there is low connectivity. You can even trade offline coins. If you are going to slate the technology, at least learn how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfp123 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 They can't steal your bitcoins. It is impossibly hard to find them, let alone decrypt them. You also don't need much power or connectivity to access them. You can store your wallet in your head and create transactions offline, posting them where there is low connectivity. You can even trade offline coins. If you are going to slate the technology, at least learn how it works. they can and have been hacked and stolen. in terms of bitcoins fiat structure, surely though its not that different to a gold backed currency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Bitcoins are even more imaginary than regular money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepLurker Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Well you wouldn't be able to access your e-money would you which is why it's ridiculous to suggest it as an alternative to a state backed currency Also if the people holding your e-money decide to steal it who is going to get it back? The state? What state? I think that you are completely missing my point. You said that if in the scenario of complete state failure and "the lights going out", then it would be difficult to access bitcoins. Which is true, but so what? It's not a weakness specific to bitcoins. The fiat currency issued by the state would also be pretty much useless; no one would recognise it. Likewise, the theft of e-money which you mention above is not a weakness specific to that type of currency; exactly the same problem applies to fiat currencies (and to shiny metals). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePiltdownMan Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 With bitcoin a lot of people seem to adopt this "but what if" mentality, focusing on the perceived negatives while ignoring any of the positives. The younger generation are always more willing to adopt new more open and efficient ideas, particularly when there are obstacles and barriers with the present systems. Also the fact that 21E6 compared to 7E9 means that if at some future date only a minute fraction of a percent of the worlds transactions goes through bitcoins there will still be huge demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 The concept of bitcoin is excellent - cash that can be used online. No more need for third parties to be involved in a transaction then when you hand over a fiver in real life for something. Naturally, TPTB are horrified by the combination of unmonitored trade, frictionless high values and the global reach of the internet. Already, existing regulatory pressure is being put on the exchanges that buy and sell bitcoin for conventional currencies. If the combination of human wariness to the new concept and early regulatory pressure don't kill it then you can bet that there'll be a much, much greater and more public legislative effort to criminalise bitcoin. That said, it's not a flawless implementation. It would appear to be prone to deflation in a growth economy and the privacy is not total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.