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Burning Of Second Homes To Restart In Wales?

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Burning of second homes to restart in Wales?

DEPECHE - Agence Bretagne Presse

The burning of second homes in Wales could return if the British government proceeds with its plan to offer tax relief on second homes. This is the stark warning given by the Welsh-language pressure group Cymuned (Community).

The plan was published in the British Chancellor's pre-budget statement in December and is out to consultation until 5 March. But according to Aran Jones, chief executive of Cymuned, the government has not considered what effect this would have on housing in rural areas, which is already in crisis.

Mr Jones says that he already senses a feeling a frustration amongst language activists. In the 1980s a group calling themselves Meibion Glyndwr (The Sons of Glyndwr, a Welsh prince who led a revolt against the English in the 1400s) burnt over a hundred holiday homes, all in Welsh-speaking areas. Only one member was caught, although it is considered that he was not amongst the leaders.

Giving tax relief to the buyers of second homes would add to the existing problem of people who cannot afford to buy homes in their own communities, says Aran Jones. Cottage burning of the kind that took place in the Meibion Glyndwr campaign is the kind of extremism we’re trying to stop. But if this proposal is included in the Budget, there is a danger that this kind of activity will return. Mr Jones added that Cymuned had acted as a pressure valve up to now, but if the proposal goes through this might not be true for much longer. He added that the Labour Government in London was pandering to the affluent middle classes in England whilst disregarding what effect this would have on areas like Wales.

Caernarfon Member of Parliament Hywel Williams has written to every politician and local authority in Wales calling on them to oppose the proposal. He has also raised the matter with a Wales Office Minister who replied that no assessment had been done on the measure’s impact on housing in Wales.

If the tax relief proposal is accepted, then the situation in Wales may well be exacerbated leading to further frustration in the Welsh-language communities with some individuals taking the law into their own hands. (Eurolang)

Edited by gruffydd

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Personally, I can't see them quitting their VERY lucrative jobs in numerous Welsh QUANGOs to go and burn down a few cottages... especially as so many of them own second or third homes in Wales, or across the border in England... or elsewhere in the World.

I remember a TV News cameraman back in the early 1980s filming a bunch of Welsh language nationalists who were daubing the Welsh Office in Cardiff with paint and eggs. He turned to the rest of us and said:

"We'll be working for those sods oneday!"

How right he was.

Basically, if you are not related to, sleeping with or ingratiated to a Welsh speaker you don't get anywhere in Wales these days. That's just my personal opinion.

As one veteran BBC commentator commented shortly before he retired: "There aren't enough Welsh language waiters in Cardiff these days!" - he was making an illustration of just how dominant the Welsh speaking community is in running Wales today.

It is conservatively estimated that about ONE BILLION pounds of TAX PAYERS' money has been spent on the Welsh language in the past 25 years - and they still aren't happy. Such a small percentage of Welsh people actually speak Welsh fluently that it would have been cheaper to give them 50K each.

Edited by The Masked Tulip

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Personally, I can't see them quitting their VERY lucrative jobs in numerous Welsh QUANGOs to go and burn down a few cottages... especially as so many of them own second or third homes in Wales, or across the border in England... or elsewhere in the World.

I remember a TV News cameraman back in the early 1980s filming a bunch of Welsh language nationalists who were daubing the Welsh Office in Cardiff with paint and eggs. He turned to the rest of us and said:

"We'll be working for those sods oneday!"

How right he was.

Basically, if you are not related to, sleeping with or ingratiated to a Welsh speaker you don't get anywhere in Wales these days. That's just my personal opinion.

As one veteran BBC commentator commented shortly before he retired: "There aren't enough Welsh language waiters in Cardiff these days!" - he was making an illustration of just how dominant the Welsh speaking community is in running Wales today.

It is conservatively estimated that about ONE BILLION pounds of TAX PAYERS' money has been spent on the Welsh language in the past 25 years - and they still aren't happy. Such a small percentage of Welsh people actually speak Welsh fluently that it would have been cheaper to give them 50K each.

I was born and bred in NE wales which on the whole is very anglesised (spelling!) but you did get the odd idiot who 'hated' the English (usually loons) and most joked about the English, the same way all the British joke about the German's. I used to go walking in the Snowdonia National park at least once a month when I was in my teens and would experience the people you mention above. Being from the border region, many would assume I was English and make comments in Welsh about me (usually in shops, but sometimes in cafes), I don't speak much Welsh but I know enough to make these shop assistants panic that I may have understood their snide comments. There is one thing they all have in common, they were usually at the bottom of the heap when brains were being handed out and are all frightened of change (I know what I like and I like what I bloody well know). These morons are in the minority, most people who live in Wales consider themselves British as well as Welsh, it's just shame that we are all tarred with the same brush.

LG

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These morons are in the minority, most people who live in Wales consider themselves British as well as Welsh, it's just shame that we are all tarred with the same brush.

But this is exactly the problem. The overwhelming majority of Welsh people do not speak Welsh and have no interest in speaking Welsh. Only about 78% of the population speak Welsh fluently and do so on a day to day basis BUT...

That has not stopped the Welsh speaking minority not only using the language as a non-stop gravy train but, more dangerously IMPO, it means they have now wormed themselves into all the imprtant jobs in Wales claiming that such posts need the person to be able to speak both Welsh and English.

Welsh speakers dominate the Media to the point that it is hard to find any Welsh TV presenter now who doe not speak Welsh and that most of the programmes, IMPO, made in Wales portray a stereotype of what Wales is. It is cultural apatheid.

The same can be found in the Welsh Civil Service and the numerous QUANGOS.

Quite frankly, IMPO, it is RACIST.

Further, the gravy train is being paid for by EVERYONE in the UK who pays taxes.

I know of people who are now well known names on national UK television who actually believe that the majority of people in Wales speak Welsh: who wish Wales to leave the UK and who privately despise the English with such a venom that it reminds me of the sort of stuff you used to hear of in the US back in the 1960s or in South Africa during apatheid.

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But this is exactly the problem. The overwhelming majority of Welsh people do not speak Welsh and have no interest in speaking Welsh. Only about 78% of the population speak Welsh fluently and do so on a day to day basis BUT...

That has not stopped the Welsh speaking minority not only using the language as a non-stop gravy train but, more dangerously IMPO, it means they have now wormed themselves into all the imprtant jobs in Wales claiming that such posts need the person to be able to speak both Welsh and English.

Welsh speakers dominate the Media to the point that it is hard to find any Welsh TV presenter now who doe not speak Welsh and that most of the programmes, IMPO, made in Wales portray a stereotype of what Wales is. It is cultural apatheid.

The same can be found in the Welsh Civil Service and the numerous QUANGOS.

Quite frankly, IMPO, it is RACIST.

Further, the gravy train is being paid for by EVERYONE in the UK who pays taxes.

I know of people who are now well known names on national UK television who actually believe that the majority of people in Wales speak Welsh: who wish Wales to leave the UK and who privately despise the English with such a venom that it reminds me of the sort of stuff you used to hear of in the US back in the 1960s or in South Africa during apatheid.

Well, I consider it payback. For years, no voice other than a plummy home counties accent was ever heard on TV or Radio. I wonder how many of the right-wingers who bang on about asylum seekers learning to speak english would bother to learn Welsh if they lived in a Welsh-speaking area? Or Spanish if they moved to the Costas?

People wouldn't object to spending millions to preserve, for instance, Stonehenge. Why the objection to spending money to preserve a living part of the history of these islands?

Regardless of where people have second homes, I find the idea morally objectionable. I would sympathise with anyone in any rural area of the UK who torched a few holiday cottages.

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I wonder how many of the right-wingers who bang on about asylum seekers learning to speak english would bother to learn Welsh if they lived in a Welsh-speaking area

Pray tell, where are these Welsh speaking areas? Welsh is now being forced on people in areas of Wales that actually have no history of speaking Welsh.

As for the Welsh language, well, it doesn't really exist. For years people in North Wales who spoke 'Welsh' spoke a different type of so-called Welsh to those in the small parts of South and West Wales who also spoke 'Welsh'. It is absurb and results in committees of people being paid out of taxes to come up with Welsh words for 'taxi' or for 'chicken korma'! How ridiculous is that?

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But this is exactly the problem. The overwhelming majority of Welsh people do not speak Welsh and have no interest in speaking Welsh. Only about 78% of the population speak Welsh fluently and do so on a day to day basis BUT...

That has not stopped the Welsh speaking minority not only using the language as a non-stop gravy train but, more dangerously IMPO, it means they have now wormed themselves into all the imprtant jobs in Wales claiming that such posts need the person to be able to speak both Welsh and English.

Welsh speakers dominate the Media to the point that it is hard to find any Welsh TV presenter now who doe not speak Welsh and that most of the programmes, IMPO, made in Wales portray a stereotype of what Wales is. It is cultural apatheid.

The same can be found in the Welsh Civil Service and the numerous QUANGOS.

Quite frankly, IMPO, it is RACIST.

Further, the gravy train is being paid for by EVERYONE in the UK who pays taxes.

I know of people who are now well known names on national UK television who actually believe that the majority of people in Wales speak Welsh: who wish Wales to leave the UK and who privately despise the English with such a venom that it reminds me of the sort of stuff you used to hear of in the US back in the 1960s or in South Africa during apatheid.

This is obviously madness, a lot of people speak Welsh in Wales but not most (I would doubt it's as much as 50% in all honesty). I think Welsh should be taught in schools but too much importance is put on it (and money given to it), when I was in school it was given the same priority as French, and German was not taught at all because of this. I'm now having to learn German as an adult and always generate a laugh when I tell people why I didn't learn it in school (by coincidence, my German teacher is from S Wales, he speaks several languages, but Welsh isn't one of them).

In all walks of life (in any country), you will find that those who shout loudest get heared and those people are usually those with extreme/passionate views. Look at the anti-smoking and anti-smacking brigades, religious extremists and the animal rights activists, you can't tell me that most of them are of sound mind, but they get a public stage (one way or another) because they shout louder than the rest of the population. Why is Ken Livingston Mayor of London? IMO for this exact reason.

(By the way, I don't smoke, I just disagree with being told whether I can or not)

Many jobs ask for a specific second language, just because it's not a widely spoken one doesn't mean it shouldn't be a requirement for the job. I also think comparing the situation in Wales with the US in the 60's (and now) and apatheid in South Africa is a little extreme. Also, be careful in your use of the word Racist.

However, I left wales because I wanted to broaden my horizons and get a progressive engineering job, neither of which I could do in an enviroment which didn't encourage business investment or initiative. If what you write is true then you will find more people leave and just a few mad TV presenters left, I say leave them to it.

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Pray tell, where are these Welsh speaking areas? Welsh is now being forced on people in areas of Wales that actually have no history of speaking Welsh.

I thought most of the mainland had some history of speaking Welsh. The Britons in Strathclyde probably spoke an early version of it - I don't know for sure but I'd be surprised if any part of Wales was missed out!

As for the Welsh language, well, it doesn't really exist. For years people in North Wales who spoke 'Welsh' spoke a different type of so-called Welsh to those in the small parts of South and West Wales who also spoke 'Welsh'.

I don't understand your point. Most languages have dialectic differences that make a speaker of one unintelligible to another. Not sure how that translates to a language not existing? Does this mean English doesn't exist because people from Surrey don't understand Glaswegians?

It is absurb and results in committees of people being paid out of taxes to come up with Welsh words for 'taxi' or for 'chicken korma'! How ridiculous is that?

Yes, pointless and stupid. But way down the list of pointless and stupid wastes of taxpayers money, behind Trident, the Arts Council, the monarchy etc etc

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I thought most of the mainland had some history of speaking Welsh. The Britons in Strathclyde probably spoke an early version of it - I don't know for sure but I'd be surprised if any part of Wales was missed out!

If I recall correctly, the welsh speaking parts were the bits that actually were Wales before more got tacked onto the country when it was absorbed into England. What is now Pembrokeshire (little England beyond Wales, some viking heritage too) as well as the eastern counties (those adjoining England) weren't even "Wales" in the fullest sense before the 16th century.

What are your thoughts on Gaelic? ;)

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...when it was absorbed into England.

I dare you to say that in bar in Cwmban! :lol:

What are your thoughts on Gaelic? ;)

I think you can guess the answer to that!

My Dad got the belt more than once for having the temerity to speak his native language in the school playground - only in the UK.

I admit that I think roadsigns, TV channels, Gaelic train tickets etc are utterly pointless. If they want to preserve the language, just make Gaelic-medium education compulsory in the Primary schools in the heartland. All studies suggest that kids taught in these schools have a higher attainment in English than kids taught in normal schools anyway, and the costs are much the same.

Anyway, I feel the dark shadow of the off-topic moderater looming over this thread...

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Personally, I can't see them quitting their VERY lucrative jobs in numerous Welsh QUANGOs to go and burn down a few cottages... especially as so many of them own second or third homes in Wales, or across the border in England... or elsewhere in the World.

All welsh people are rich multiple home owners and work in quangos ?

someone less charitable than me would say that was nonsense.

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Burning of second homes to restart in Wales?

DEPECHE - Agence Bretagne Presse

The burning of second homes in Wales could return if the British government proceeds with its plan to offer tax relief on second homes. This is the stark warning given by the Welsh-language pressure group Cymuned (Community).

The plan was published in the British Chancellor's pre-budget statement in December and is out to consultation until 5 March. But according to Aran Jones, chief executive of Cymuned, the government has not considered what effect this would have on housing in rural areas, which is already in crisis.

Mr Jones says that he already senses a feeling a frustration amongst language activists. In the 1980s a group calling themselves Meibion Glyndwr (The Sons of Glyndwr, a Welsh prince who led a revolt against the English in the 1400s) burnt over a hundred holiday homes, all in Welsh-speaking areas. Only one member was caught, although it is considered that he was not amongst the leaders.

Giving tax relief to the buyers of second homes would add to the existing problem of people who cannot afford to buy homes in their own communities, says Aran Jones. Cottage burning of the kind that took place in the Meibion Glyndwr campaign is the kind of extremism we’re trying to stop. But if this proposal is included in the Budget, there is a danger that this kind of activity will return. Mr Jones added that Cymuned had acted as a pressure valve up to now, but if the proposal goes through this might not be true for much longer. He added that the Labour Government in London was pandering to the affluent middle classes in England whilst disregarding what effect this would have on areas like Wales.

Caernarfon Member of Parliament Hywel Williams has written to every politician and local authority in Wales calling on them to oppose the proposal. He has also raised the matter with a Wales Office Minister who replied that no assessment had been done on the measure’s impact on housing in Wales.

If the tax relief proposal is accepted, then the situation in Wales may well be exacerbated leading to further frustration in the Welsh-language communities with some individuals taking the law into their own hands. (Eurolang)

What if the those second homes belong to welsh owners?

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Yes, pointless and stupid. But way down the list of pointless and stupid wastes of taxpayers money, behind Trident, the Arts Council, the monarchy etc etc

The effing dome for god's sake. Honestly, reading this forum some days is like reading the bloody daily mail. Can you nutters please get yourselves in a pet about super-wealthy people and companies avoiding/evading their taxes or the billions we're chucking down the pan in the war - it would be so much more constructive than your whinging about Welsh-speakers. You sound like the Russians griping and bellyaching about 'anti-Russian racism' in the Baltics. Poor old us, pity us, we can't jackboot about the place like we used to enjoying all those privileges of empire and creaming off all the wealth. Get over it! FFS!!

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Most parts of Wales have a pretty recent Welsh speaking tradition - somewhere like South Pembrokeshire would be an exception - even so, cottages were damaged there during the last Meibion Glyndwr campaign..

The Eastern Valleys of S Wales were flooded with immigrants who came to work in the coalmines, etc., in the 19th Century - some of the Eastern Valleys had a population that was 40-60% English-born, with a good number of Scots, Irish, italians, Spanish, etc., as well.

One of my ancestors was a churchman there at this time and although he was a Welsh speaker, he changed the language spoken in his church at this time to appeal to all the new arrivals. English soon became the dominant language across all of South Wales.

As for 'If I recall correctly, the welsh speaking parts were the bits that actually were Wales before more got tacked onto the country when it was absorbed into England. What is now Pembrokeshire (little England beyond Wales, some viking heritage too) as well as the eastern counties (those adjoining England) weren't even "Wales" in the fullest sense before the 16th century.' You're correct that some parts of Wales have populations that haven't been Welsh speaking for 900 years or more - this should be respected in my opinion.

However, I know some Welsh people who claim that parts of England should be absorbed into Wales again - 'the lost lands' as people still call them. Parts of Herefordshire spoke Welsh through to the 19th Century. Most, if not all, of what is present day England spoke a Brythonic Celtic language, similar to Welsh, at one time. This was before the German tribes arrived and introduced English - a Germanic language. I even heard a Welsh racist calling the English 'Bloody Germans' a few years back, and I remember reading a modern Welsh poem mentioning the blond-haired English.... mmmmmmm.

Edited by gruffydd

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The effing dome for god's sake. Honestly, reading this forum some days is like reading the bloody daily mail. Can you nutters please get yourselves in a pet about super-wealthy people and companies avoiding/evading their taxes or the billions we're chucking down the pan in the war - it would be so much more constructive than your whinging about Welsh-speakers. You sound like the Russians griping and bellyaching about 'anti-Russian racism' in the Baltics. Poor old us, pity us, we can't jackboot about the place like we used to enjoying all those privileges of empire and creaming off all the wealth. Get over it! FFS!!

Good on ya!

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Well, I consider it payback. For years, no voice other than a plummy home counties accent was ever heard on TV or Radio. I wonder how many of the right-wingers who bang on about asylum seekers learning to speak english would bother to learn Welsh if they lived in a Welsh-speaking area? Or Spanish if they moved to the Costas?

People wouldn't object to spending millions to preserve, for instance, Stonehenge. Why the objection to spending money to preserve a living part of the history of these islands?

Regardless of where people have second homes, I find the idea morally objectionable. I would sympathise with anyone in any rural area of the UK who torched a few holiday cottages.

I cannot understand anyone who would condone such action. I hope you are renting one with your kids in when it's torched, you miserasble, evil f*ck.

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The effing dome for god's sake. Honestly, reading this forum some days is like reading the bloody daily mail. Can you nutters please get yourselves in a pet about super-wealthy people and companies avoiding/evading their taxes or the billions we're chucking down the pan in the war - it would be so much more constructive than your whinging about Welsh-speakers. You sound like the Russians griping and bellyaching about 'anti-Russian racism' in the Baltics. Poor old us, pity us, we can't jackboot about the place like we used to enjoying all those privileges of empire and creaming off all the wealth. Get over it! FFS!!

dont mention ze war !!!!

re the Welsh Language. Welsh was once spoken in the whole of Wales, Cornwall and Cumbria,

where do people get their ideas from ? dont they know how to use google ?

do they just post what they would *LIKE* to be true ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language

The earliest extant sources of a language identifiable as Welsh go back to about the 6th century, and the language of this period is known as Early Welsh. Very little of this language remains. The next main period, somewhat better attested, is Old Welsh (9th to 11th centuries); this was the language of the laws of Hywel Dda, as well as some poetry from both Wales and Scotland. As Anglo-Saxon colonisation of Great Britain proceeded, the Celtic-speakers in Wales were split off from those in northern England, speaking Cumbrian, and those in the south-west, speaking what would become Cornish, and so the languages diverged.

Welsh was also spoken in the welsh-british kingdom of Strathclyde in Scotland which had its seat at Dumbarton .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/scottishhisto...s_britons.shtml

Discover the Kingdom of the Britons - an ancient Welsh speaking people who settled along the River Clyde and ruled for the best part of the first millennium. They founded the city of Glasgow and supplied us with our earliest examples of Scottish literature - written in Welsh.

Sailing up the Clyde towards Glasgow there is a vast and imposing sentinel guarding the river at Dumbarton. As a fortress it has a long and proud history, and, in fact, has a longer recorded history than any other in Britain.

The KingdomThe rock was the centre of the Kingdom of the Britons, that stretched along the River Clyde, north into Stirlingshire and south into Ayrshire. Known as Dun Breatann - ‘Fortress of the Britons’ or 'Alt Clut' (Rock of the Clyde). It was the centre of a flourishing Britonnic culture that spoke Old Welsh, or Cumbric, which is now almost entirely forgotten.

the first recorded piece of poetry from Scotland was the Goddodin written in WELSH,

thus endeth the lesson,

Edited by kenclarkesshoes

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I cannot understand anyone who would condone such action. I hope you are renting one with your kids in when it's torched, you miserasble, evil f*ck.

I did mean when they were empty.

Which would be about 50 weeks of the year.

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dont mention ze war !!!!

re the Welsh Language. Welsh was once spoken in the whole of Wales, Cornwall and Cumbria,

where do people get their ideas from ? dont they know how to use google ?

do they just post what they would *LIKE* to be true ?

Welsh was also spoken in the welsh-british kingdom of Strathclyde in Scotland which had its seat at Dumbarton .

the first recorded piece of poetry from Scotland was the Goddodin written in WELSH,

thus endeth the lesson,

Hi,

Originally a native of Cornwall, learnt cornsih gaellic at school. I can assure you that Welsh was not spoken in Cornwall. Cornish Gaellic was spoken, a gaellic language closley ressembling Britannic (French) gaellic.

Plenty of the older native-speaking cornish folk are quick to put people right on that one.

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Welsh was also spoken in the welsh-british kingdom of Strathclyde in Scotland which had its seat at Dumbarton .

You're talking b*ll*cks! This is exactly the sort of propaganda that the Welsh Nationalists sprout. I remember sitting in a pub in Swansea a few years ago with the TV crew from a daily Welsh language magazine programme. Not only were they adamant that virtually all Welsh people spoke Welsh - Doh! - but they were adamant that it was the second language spoken in, of all places, Rome.

The bottom line is if you get a Welsh speaker, a gaelic speaker from Cornwall and a gaelic speaker from Scotland, sat them in a room and told them to talk to one another they would not be able to do so as the languages are not the same.

Scottish and Cornish gaelic speakers though, having seen the cash cow that the language has become in Wales, are now rubbing their greedy hands together. I fear Scotland is now about 20 years behind Wales and, although most Scots do not realise it, the use of language as a political tool is too spreading through their country like a cancer. Scots will oneday wake up and discover that they can't get Media or Public Sector jobs unless they speak gaelic, road signs will at great expense be translated into gaelic and, no doubt, a board will be set up to translate 'chicken korma' into Sctos gaelic also.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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