Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

THE GREAT BIG CHINA THREAD


winkie
 Share

Recommended Posts

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-24/furious-chinese-demand-money-back-housing-bubble-pops

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned or, it seems, like a Chinese real estate speculator who is losing money. After four years of talking (and not doing much) about cooling the hot-money speculation that is the Chinese real-estate bubble (mirroring the US equity market bubble since stock-ownership is low in China), the WSJ reports that the people are restless as the PBOC actually takes actions - and prices are falling. With new project prices down over 20%, 'homeowners' exclaim "return our hard-earned money" and "this is very unfair" - who could have seen this coming?

Via WSJ,

After a four-year campaign by the government to cool spiraling property prices, rises in home prices are starting to slow and in some smaller cities they are weakening.

Growth in average housing prices in 70 Chinese cities moderated in February for the second-straight month though they were still nearly 9% higher compared with a year ago.

But weaker economic growth, slower home sales and rising volumes of unsold houses have convinced developers in a number of cities to cut prices to raise cash quickly.

Looks like the Chinese don't like the losing money bit of capitalism, but then neither do the Western banks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 2.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Angry Chinese Homeowners Vent Frustrations After Price Cuts

Homeowners Demand Their Money Back After Developer Cuts Prices on New Homes

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303802104579455000745605352?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303802104579455000745605352.html

Groups of angry homeowners put up banners and demanded their money back after Hong Kong-listed property developer Wharf Ltd. cut prices on new homes in an eastern Chinese city, in the latest sign of stress in the nation’s property market. Around 20 homeowners picketed outside a property showroom in Changzhou Saturday, demanding to meet executives of the developer. They said they wanted their money back after prices at the project, called Phoenix Lake Garden, were cut by as much as 16%, according to the protesters.

Meanwhile, there was also a small disturbance at a second project called Ambassador House in the same city after the same developer cut prices there. According to property agency Soufun Holdings, Wharf cut prices of 20 apartments in the project to 8,200 yuan ($1,317) per square meter, down from the average 11,000 yuan per square meter it recorded in recent months.

“Wharf, give us justice. Return us our hard earned money,” read one of the banners, held up on bamboo poles outside the Phoenix Lake Garden showroom of a project for mid- to high-end apartments and villas. “We aren’t speculators. We just want an explanation from the developer,” said one 35-year-old home buyer, who said he had bought an apartment and gave his surname as Wu. “This is very unfair.”

Others said that as many as 100 people who had bought homes at the project had vented their frustrations outside the showroom over the past week. Asked about the incidents, Wharf officials in Beijing didn’t comment directly on the disturbances. “China’s housing market has already become very market-based, price adjustment according to market changes is a normal market behavior,” Wharf said in a statement to The Wall Street Journal. The price adjustment at Phoenix Lake Garden is focused on selling off inventory, Wharf added.

After a four-year campaign by the government to cool spiraling property prices, rises in home prices are starting to slow and in some smaller cities they are weakening. Growth in average housing prices in 70 Chinese cities moderated in February for the second-straight month though they were still nearly 9% higher compared with a year ago. But weaker economic growth, slower home sales and rising volumes of unsold houses have convinced developers in a number of cities to cut prices to raise cash quickly.

The drop in newer home prices hasn’t gone down well. Furniture at the showroom of Wharf’s Ambassador House was knocked over and the wooden stands for advertisements for the homes were flung on top of a model of the project. Outside the Phoenix Lake Garden showroom, Mr. Wu said he bought a 120-square-meter apartment in December, for 730,000 yuan. Prices are now 610,000 yuan for a similar apartment in the same tower, he said. “If prices are now cut, does it mean the property developer would cut corners?” he added.

Mr. Wu said he found out about the price cuts from text messages on March 14 from the sales team announcing them and asking if he wanted to buy another apartment. “I’ve been here every day since March 15, and no representative from the developer has spoken to us yet,” he said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-25/what-bank-run-china-looks-hundreds-rush-banks-following-solvency-rumors

Curious what the real, and not pre-spun for public consumption, sentiment on the ground is in a China (where the housing bubble has already popped and the severe contraction in credit is forcing the ultra wealthy to luxury real estate in places like Hong Kong) from the perspective of the common man? The photo below, which shows hundreds of people rushing today to withdraw money from branches of two small Chinese banks after rumors spread about solvency at one of them, are sufficiently informative about just how jittery ordinary Chinese have become in recent days, and reflect the growing anxiety among investors as regulators signal greater tolerance for credit defaults.

China%20bank%20run_0.jpg

Bank run...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/26/uk-china-banking-idUKBREA2P07F20140326

Rural banks in China's eastern city of Yancheng stacked piles of cash in plain view behind teller windows to calm depositors queuing at bank branches for a third straight day on Wednesday following rumours that they had run out of cash.

According to residents of Sheyang county, which includes Yancheng, panic began on Monday with a rumour that a branch of one local bank turned down a customer's request for a 200,000 yuan withdrawal. Banks declined to comment and Reuters was unable to verify the rumour.

The affected institutions are tiny compared with the scale of China's financial sector, and the rush for cash appears to be an isolated incident so far. Rumours also found especially fertile ground there after a failure of less-regulated three rural credit co-operatives last January.

Yet the news caught nationwide attention, reflecting growing public anxiety as regulators signal greater tolerance for credit defaults.

Sounds exactly like the "Great Depression" in the 1930's, Bonnie and Clyde to return?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/26/us-china-banking-idUSBREA2P02H20140326

"Banks in Chinese city show stacks of cash to reassure depositors"

Be assured....be VERY assured.

Where did it start this time ?

Those Chinese buyers in London will be gone by the end of the month. The russians will already have stopped buying after seeing how quickly the west will "freeze" russians assets.

!!!! POP !!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blimy...proper bank run then.

Must have missed that on the BBp.

The bbc you mean? They won`t be covering bank runs, no way, it is all happy clappy HPI now, until it isn`t possible to run with that narrative any more. They are just part of the established power trying to create "positive" things for the country to rally round. It really looks sad and dated now, I wonder how many people actually watch the bbc now, let alone believe anything they say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.reuters.c...EA2P02H20140326

"Banks in Chinese city show stacks of cash to reassure depositors"

Be assured....be VERY assured.

Where did it start this time ?

Those Chinese buyers in London will be gone by the end of the month. The russians will already have stopped buying after seeing how quickly the west will "freeze" russians assets.

!!!! POP !!!!

Could well be the case I think (sure someone will be along to say how it will never end for London) The west is in a kind of double bind, they need sanctions to look "hard" in the face of Russian "aggression", although this is going to have economic knock on effects here, and they can`t really control what goes on in China? It is like two black swans collided in mid air and blew up or something :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bbc you mean? They won`t be covering bank runs, no way, it is all happy clappy HPI now, until it isn`t possible to run with that narrative any more. They are just part of the established power trying to create "positive" things for the country to rally round. It really looks sad and dated now, I wonder how many people actually watch the bbc now, let alone believe anything they say?

No, I mean the BBp...The British Broadcasters of Propaganda. tongue.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, wondered if it was some dig at them. The Janet and John approach really is wearing thin now.

Quite.

They must hate the internet though, too much scope the for the truth. There not much point to the news papers or to a lesser extent the news channels. The church is long gone.

I'm surprised it's not been censored more ( yet )....for our own good of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite.

They must hate the internet though, too much scope the for the truth. There not much point to the news papers or to a lesser extent the news channels. The church is long gone.

I'm surprised it's not been censored more ( yet )....for our own good of course.

TBH this is the only site I frequent, occasionally a Deep Purple forum which is a great source of information on musicians, sessions, albums etc that somehow connect with Deep Purple, but it gets sad seeing all the little threads arguing if Blackmore is Over/Underrated, better/worse than Hendrix/Clapton/Whoever, or if the band are shite now etc. etc. It is fans who are middle aged in most cases living life through people who have gone out and done something, while they sit at a keyboard.

This site is great, but it wastes productive time that should be going into other things. The long winded point I am trying to make is that people who are movers and shakers are not spending all day on the internet, so the PTB probably think - Internet, Idiot Lantern, who cares as long as the sheeple are stuck to something, and sites like HPC don`t have a big enough audience to affect things in a meaningful way, therefore no censorship yet? If facebook became full of political unrest and plots against the bankers it would be shut down IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite.

They must hate the internet though, too much scope the for the truth. There not much point to the news papers or to a lesser extent the news channels. The church is long gone.

I'm surprised it's not been censored more ( yet )....for our own good of course.

The BBC is far from perfect (I'd probably give it an 'adequate'), but it's silly to expect it to emulate the various rumour-mills on the internet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, wondered if it was some dig at them. The Janet and John approach really is wearing thin now.

I actually can't remember the last time I sat down and watched a BBC news programme. The headlines perhaps. Maybe a few minutes of local news, for the weather. It's always struck me as odd the amount of sports news they broadcast daily but next to nothing about the economy and finance. Not that the other side is much better. The lead item on Sky this morning was Gwyneth Paltrow's marriage. The Cowellisation of the news agenda appears complete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The BBC is far from perfect (I'd probably give it an 'adequate'), but it's silly to expect it to emulate the various rumour-mills on the internet.

Blmey, is reuters spreading rumours now, yopu can't trust anyone now.

Dont get me wrong, the BBc is a great source of sports results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually can't remember the last time I sat down and watched a BBC news programme. The headlines perhaps. Maybe a few minutes of local news, for the weather. It's always struck me as odd the amount of sports news they broadcast daily but next to nothing about the economy and finance. Not that the other side is much better. The lead item on Sky this morning was Gwyneth Paltrow's marriage. The Cowellisation of the news agenda appears complete.

To be fair, they manage to come up with some good stuff on BBC4 etc. Music and Movie documentaries, WW1 just now, stuff like that, if not for those sorts of programmes I couldn`t justify the licence fee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blmey, is reuters spreading rumours now, yopu can't trust anyone now.

Can you point me to some significant reuters stories that never made it to the BBC? (genuinely curious)

Dont get me wrong, the BBc is a great source of sports results.

Not if you're a ManU supporter...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The BBC from its inception was more akin to the other, internet, meaning of BBC. Alas anyone who digs deaply into such matters finds Eddie Bernays and his ilk and is forced to conclude that the national media has to be political in nature, especially those who purport not to be. Does this mean that it is wholely wrong? No, it is just economical with the uncomfortable truth about that country. So, if you just believe what the nations accuse each other of then you have a fighting chance, a first step if you will. The transnationals like reuters are not bad but they again serve their masters interests. This does mean however, you may end up reading der speigel and the tehran times, and who has the time (or stomach) for this?

Lucky for us, in this ever shrinking pond of corporate ownership, from whom investicative journalism has been effectively banished, we have the net. They are all there, you just need to look. After looking at the Torygraph, Gruaniad & Wail my first stop is usually http://www.counterpunch.org/, for example (I have others). Does this site reinforce my own confirmation bias? Probably, but as its name suggests, it helps me. Good luck.

Anyhoo rant over, back to business.

China's Credit Pipeline Slams Shut: Companies Scramble For The Last Drops Of Liquidity

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-26/chinas-credit-pipeline-slams-shut-companies-scramble-last-drops-liquidity

The fun is about to start.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The BBC from its inception was more akin to the other, internet, meaning of BBC. Alas anyone who digs deaply into such matters finds Eddie Bernays and his ilk and is forced to conclude that the national media has to be political in nature, especially those who purport not to be. Does this mean that it is wholely wrong? No, it is just economical with the uncomfortable truth about that country. So, if you just believe what the nations accuse each other of then you have a fighting chance, a first step if you will. The transnationals like reuters are not bad but they again serve their masters interests. This does mean however, you may end up reading der speigel and the tehran times, and who has the time (or stomach) for this?

Lucky for us, in this ever shrinking pond of corporate ownership, from whom investicative journalism has been effectively banished, we have the net. They are all there, you just need to look. After looking at the Torygraph, Gruaniad & Wail my first stop is usually http://www.counterpunch.org/, for example (I have others). Does this site reinforce my own confirmation bias? Probably, but as its name suggests, it helps me. Good luck.

Anyhoo rant over, back to business.

China's Credit Pipeline Slams Shut: Companies Scramble For The Last Drops Of Liquidity

http://www.zerohedge...drops-liquidity

How soon until the effects show up in our housing and stock markets?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TBH this is the only site I frequent, occasionally a Deep Purple forum which is a great source of information on musicians, sessions, albums etc that somehow connect with Deep Purple, but it gets sad seeing all the little threads arguing if Blackmore is Over/Underrated, better/worse than Hendrix/Clapton/Whoever, or if the band are shite now etc. etc. It is fans who are middle aged in most cases living life through people who have gone out and done something, while they sit at a keyboard.

This site is great, but it wastes productive time that should be going into other things. The long winded point I am trying to make is that people who are movers and shakers are not spending all day on the internet, so the PTB probably think - Internet, Idiot Lantern, who cares as long as the sheeple are stuck to something, and sites like HPC don`t have a big enough audience to affect things in a meaningful way, therefore no censorship yet? If facebook became full of political unrest and plots against the bankers it would be shut down IMO.

Does the Rock Family Tree prog ever get discussed on there?

Without doubt one of the funniest hours of TV i have ever watched.

Its the only prog i have ever transferred from VHS to DVD to preserve it.

Signed

David Covernote. B)

Edited by shindigger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tQe1xbAgOI&feature=player_detailpage


Does the Rock Family Tree prog ever get discussed on there?
Without doubt one of the funniest hours of TV i have ever watched.
Its the only prog i have ever transferred from VHS to DVD to preserve it.
Signed
David Covernote. B)




http://bdeeppurplefa...m.runboard.com/ This is the site, there are many dedicated to Purple and their members, but this one claims to have had Jon Lord posting on it before he died (as Keys 1 or something) The last Rainbow singer (1990`s reunion tour) Doogie White posts on it as well as various roadies/instrument techs. who claim to have toured with DP members)

I don`t post there, just read occasionally, and was going to give up on it because some of the little flaming sessions about Gillan`s voice or Blackmore being a **** were getting sad (especially taking into account the age of some of the posters who started going to gigs in the 70`s) but a little exploration of the archives, reviews and discography sections convinced me to keep it bookmarked. For sure that documentary will be discussed somewhere, and if I remember correctly that is the one where Coverdale relates about "Ricardo" trying to drag him by the hair out of the backstage area of a Rainbow gig, and it descending into a fist fight in front of roadies and other bands?




The first few minutes above is Ricardo showing Spinal Tap how to REALLY be petulant :lol: The California Jam 1974 is also worth a look for the camera and stage destruction at the end.








Edited by dances with sheeple
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The BBC from its inception was more akin to the other, internet, meaning of BBC. Alas anyone who digs deaply into such matters finds Eddie Bernays and his ilk and is forced to conclude that the national media has to be political in nature, especially those who purport not to be. Does this mean that it is wholely wrong? No, it is just economical with the uncomfortable truth about that country. So, if you just believe what the nations accuse each other of then you have a fighting chance, a first step if you will. The transnationals like reuters are not bad but they again serve their masters interests. This does mean however, you may end up reading der speigel and the tehran times, and who has the time (or stomach) for this?

Lucky for us, in this ever shrinking pond of corporate ownership, from whom investicative journalism has been effectively banished, we have the net. They are all there, you just need to look. After looking at the Torygraph, Gruaniad & Wail my first stop is usually http://www.counterpunch.org/, for example (I have others). Does this site reinforce my own confirmation bias? Probably, but as its name suggests, it helps me. Good luck.

Anyhoo rant over, back to business.

China's Credit Pipeline Slams Shut: Companies Scramble For The Last Drops Of Liquidity

http://www.zerohedge...drops-liquidity

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-26727068

BBC getting it's wings clipped in 2015

'MPs have backed plans to give the government power to decriminalise non-payment of the TV licence fee.

They voted in favour of an amendment to the Deregulation Bill, which could become law later this year, proposing a subsequent review of non-payment penalty options.

Ministers could then decide to move to a system of civil penalties, probably around the summer of 2015.'

Back to business

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/27/us-china-banking-idUSBREA2Q0AC20140327

'(Reuters) - The rumor spread quickly. A small rural lender in eastern China had turned down a customer's request to withdraw 200,000 yuan ($32,200).

Bankers and local officials say it never happened, but true or not the rumor was all it took to spark a run on a bank as the story passed quickly from person to person, among depositors, bystanders and even bank employees.

Savers feared the bank in Yancheng, a city in Sheyang county, had run out of money and soon hundreds of customers had rushed to its doors demanding the withdrawal of their money despite assurances from regulators and the central bank that their money was safe.

The panic in a corner of the coastal Jiangsu province north of Shanghai, while isolated, struck a raw nerve and won national airplay, possibly reflecting public anxiety over China's financial system after the country's first domestic bond default this month shattered assumptions the government would always step in to prevent institutions from collapsing.

Rumors also find especially fertile ground here after the failure last January of some less-regulated rural credit co-operatives.

Jin Wenjun saw the drama unfold.

He started to notice more people than usual arriving at the Jiangsu Sheyang Rural Commercial Bank next door to his liquor store on Monday afternoon. By evening there were hundreds spilling out into the courtyard in front of the bank in this rural town near a high-tech park surrounded by rice and rape plant fields.

Bank officials tried to assure the depositors that there was enough money to go around, but the crowd kept growing.

In response, local officials and bank managers kept branches open 24 hours a day and trucked in cash by armored vehicle to satisfy hundreds of customers, some of whom brought large baskets to carry their cash out of the bank.

Jin found himself at the bank branch just after midnight to withdraw 95,000 yuan for his friend from a village 20 kms (12 miles) away.

"He was uncomfortable. It was late and he couldn't wait, so he left me his ID card to withdraw his cash," Jin said.

By Tuesday, the crisis of confidence had engulfed another bank, the nearby Rural Commercial Bank of Huanghai.

"One person passed on the news to 10 people, 10 people passed it to 100, and that turned into something pretty terrifying," said Miao Dongmei, a customer of the Sheyang bank who owns an infant supply store across the street from the first branch to be hit by the run.

Claiming to be a Yancheng resident, one user of Sina Weibo's Twitter-like service repeated the story on Monday about the failed 200,000 yuan withdrawal, adding that "rumors are the bank is going bankrupt."

When later contacted by Reuters online, he said he had heard the rumor from his mother when she came back from town.

Huanghai and Jiangsu Sheyang banks declined to comment. Yancheng police said on the force's official microblog on Thursday that they had detained a person suspected of spreading rumors.'

Edited by Sancho Panza
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-26727068

BBC getting it's wings clipped in 2015

'MPs have backed plans to give the government power to decriminalise non-payment of the TV licence fee.

They voted in favour of an amendment to the Deregulation Bill, which could become law later this year, proposing a subsequent review of non-payment penalty options.

Ministers could then decide to move to a system of civil penalties, probably around the summer of 2015.'

Back to business

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/27/us-china-banking-idUSBREA2Q0AC20140327

'(Reuters) - The rumor spread quickly. A small rural lender in eastern China had turned down a customer's request to withdraw 200,000 yuan ($32,200).

Bankers and local officials say it never happened, but true or not the rumor was all it took to spark a run on a bank as the story passed quickly from person to person, among depositors, bystanders and even bank employees.

Savers feared the bank in Yancheng, a city in Sheyang county, had run out of money and soon hundreds of customers had rushed to its doors demanding the withdrawal of their money despite assurances from regulators and the central bank that their money was safe.

The panic in a corner of the coastal Jiangsu province north of Shanghai, while isolated, struck a raw nerve and won national airplay, possibly reflecting public anxiety over China's financial system after the country's first domestic bond default this month shattered assumptions the government would always step in to prevent institutions from collapsing.

Rumors also find especially fertile ground here after the failure last January of some less-regulated rural credit co-operatives.

Jin Wenjun saw the drama unfold.

He started to notice more people than usual arriving at the Jiangsu Sheyang Rural Commercial Bank next door to his liquor store on Monday afternoon. By evening there were hundreds spilling out into the courtyard in front of the bank in this rural town near a high-tech park surrounded by rice and rape plant fields.

Bank officials tried to assure the depositors that there was enough money to go around, but the crowd kept growing.

In response, local officials and bank managers kept branches open 24 hours a day and trucked in cash by armored vehicle to satisfy hundreds of customers, some of whom brought large baskets to carry their cash out of the bank.

Jin found himself at the bank branch just after midnight to withdraw 95,000 yuan for his friend from a village 20 kms (12 miles) away.

"He was uncomfortable. It was late and he couldn't wait, so he left me his ID card to withdraw his cash," Jin said.

By Tuesday, the crisis of confidence had engulfed another bank, the nearby Rural Commercial Bank of Huanghai.

"One person passed on the news to 10 people, 10 people passed it to 100, and that turned into something pretty terrifying," said Miao Dongmei, a customer of the Sheyang bank who owns an infant supply store across the street from the first branch to be hit by the run.

Claiming to be a Yancheng resident, one user of Sina Weibo's Twitter-like service repeated the story on Monday about the failed 200,000 yuan withdrawal, adding that "rumors are the bank is going bankrupt."

When later contacted by Reuters online, he said he had heard the rumor from his mother when she came back from town.

Huanghai and Jiangsu Sheyang banks declined to comment. Yancheng police said on the force's official microblog on Thursday that they had detained a person suspected of spreading rumors.'

I head that they drafted in Gordon Brown to 'save China'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Guest featured this topic

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.