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THE GREAT BIG CHINA THREAD

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People are shopping around and China is not always the cheapest supplier any more...noticed in both clothes and shoes.....competition aint it a great thing. ;)

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its the result of the fixed exchange rate.

people in america keep going on about how china is "manipulating its currency" (despite themselves printing $2trillion)

but to maintain a fixed currency, everytime US dollars are brought into the country - china must of course print yuan to buy that currency from its citizens to keep the exchange rate stable.

so they must print lots of yuan resulting in big inflation.

it doesnt matter if exchange rates are fixed or floating - the effect is all the same.

a floating rate would have meant that chinese prices stayed realtively the same but their exchange rate strenghtened, increasing prices to importers.

right now the exchange rate is fixed but prices rise (due to inflation caused by the fixed rate) and so the result to importers is the same.

Edited by mfp123

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So the 'rising tide' flows on to cheaper climes in search of new slaves to exploit. The good news is that China will now have to climb the added value chain- the bad news is that in their doing so the going rate will drop like a stone.

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This has been on the cards for a long time.

The manufacturing side of the company that my OH works for have two super factories in China running at idle while at the same time cranking up production in India.

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Yup. Due to the tide of money that is going into web and mobile app development the annual wage for a middle weight dev in China is about £25k pa now. In the UK we'd be looking at £35k but when you factor in the logistics and the added 'being able to actually think for themself' factor that you get using a developer over here - we are pretty much approaching parity.

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Yup. Due to the tide of money that is going into web and mobile app development the annual wage for a middle weight dev in China is about £25k pa now. In the UK we'd be looking at £35k but when you factor in the logistics and the added 'being able to actually think for themself' factor that you get using a developer over here - we are pretty much approaching parity.

Add in the facts about being able to legally control things better here too, as well as all the social benefits of one less person on the dole...

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Colleague of mine, young lad from mainland China but educated in the UK, now here in Australia, was telling me about his dad's toy factory back home. It's loss making due to salary rises and increased benefits. No one will buy it and he can't shut it due to workers' entitlements being so significant. His only option is to hand the keys over to the workers' council or whatever it's called which makes China sound a good deal more communist than I realised.

Luckily (for him), he's spent the last 30 years ripping value out so it's no great loss.

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I read even foxconn is opening a factory in Brazil, non-chinese ipad's, what is the world coming to.

Edited by phead

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China = shortest stay as world superpower in world history

The faster they rise they harder they fall

Edited by Ruffneck

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China = shortest stay as world superpower in world history

The faster they rise they harder they fall

Correction : China was the super power for most of history.

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Correction : China was the super power for most of history.

how was their influence felt across the world for the period prior to 1500

china is a defensive nation hence why it built a wall to defend from the mongols , there has never been empire building until recently with china

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Colleague of mine, young lad from mainland China but educated in the UK, now here in Australia, was telling me about his dad's toy factory back home. It's loss making due to salary rises and increased benefits. No one will buy it and he can't shut it due to workers' entitlements being so significant. His only option is to hand the keys over to the workers' council or whatever it's called which makes China sound a good deal more communist than I realised.

Luckily (for him), he's spent the last 30 years ripping value out so it's no great loss.

Irony being that if instead of selfishly stealing all the wealth for himself, he'd shared this out with the other people who'd helped him over the 30 years - i.e. his workers - then he'd probably be more succesful than he could ever imagine.

And now they've got their hands on his company, without him, it'll probably be bankrupt in 6 months.

When either side of the boss/worker equation takes the pi55, it's a mutual death sentence for both sides.

No matter what, greed will always end up eating itself...

XYY

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China = shortest stay as world superpower in world history

The faster they rise they harder they fall

bear in mind 2 things. rising wages and living standards is not a failure of the system!

its not a superpower and wont be because its gdp per capita is still only $4000. people go on about how theyre the second biggest economy in the world but its still only a developing country and will be for the next 50 years.

they need to put in a whole lot of work to continue to raise living standards, for even basic amenities such as roads, power, transport, housing.

the days of the superpower in my opinion are gone because in a global economy everyone relies on each other now. the US, europe and china are so intertwined they need each other to prosper.

in future, every country will be even more intertwined, and there will be one giant world economy with every country doing their bit.

Edited by mfp123

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how was their influence felt across the world for the period prior to 1500

china is a defensive nation hence why it built a wall to defend from the mongols , there has never been empire building until recently with china

China traders were trading with most of Asia well before 1500. There was also something called a silk road which was a pathway for intercontinental commerce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road

China was the largest and most advanced economy for most of the years since year 1 AD to the of eighteen century. China was still the largest economy in the world by 1775.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia

"China was the largest and most advanced economy on earth for much of recorded history,[29][30][31][32] until the British Empire (excluding India) overtook it in the mid 19th century. "

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Imperial_China

And yes, China was a defensive nation - until one of those vessel state failed to send in the annual tribute or anger the emperor... Also, Roman empire too

built plenty of fort and walls...

Edited by easybetman

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Irony being that if instead of selfishly stealing all the wealth for himself, he'd shared this out with the other people who'd helped him over the 30 years - i.e. his workers - then he'd probably be more succesful than he could ever imagine.

And now they've got their hands on his company, without him, it'll probably be bankrupt in 6 months.

When either side of the boss/worker equation takes the pi55, it's a mutual death sentence for both sides.

No matter what, greed will always end up eating itself...

XYY

Yep - it's a lose-lose... although the ex-owner has stashed away plenty, I'm sure he'd still like to be ths big man in Xian or whererever.

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Good for Bangladesh.. that nation really needed a break. 18$ billion in clothing sales for the first 7 months of the year is quite a substantial industry. Once you get even one product that you can sell to the rest of the world, the nation can use that money to import advanced technology and start developing.

China is moving up the value chain.. and their economy is becoming more inward focused. China needs the labour of its people in continuing to develop the nation, not so much in exporting cheap products anymore.

Chinese imports are huge and growing as well. For example the article mentioned that Indonesia and Vietnam have taken over footwear production. Well a China with people with some decent disposable income will need hundreds of millions of shoes every year.

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Yup. Due to the tide of money that is going into web and mobile app development the annual wage for a middle weight dev in China is about £25k pa now. In the UK we'd be looking at £35k but when you factor in the logistics and the added 'being able to actually think for themself' factor that you get using a developer over here - we are pretty much approaching parity.

Your forgetting the extra value added to chinese software:

rsync 'personal_contacts monitoring@red_army.org.cn

+

rsync 'visa number' scammer@triad.org.cn

I'm not kidding.

Never buy an off the shelf internet connected from china.

America is bad enough but ...

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China traders were trading with most of Asia well before 1500. There was also something called a silk road which was a pathway for intercontinental commerce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road

China was the largest and most advanced economy for most of the years since year 1 AD to the of eighteen century. China was still the largest economy in the world by 1775.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia

"China was the largest and most advanced economy on earth for much of recorded history,[29][30][31][32] until the British Empire (excluding India) overtook it in the mid 19th century. "

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Imperial_China

And yes, China was a defensive nation - until one of those vessel state failed to send in the annual tribute or anger the emperor... Also, Roman empire too

built plenty of fort and walls...

sorry but a superpowers influence is felt across the globe , not just in Asian countries that were themselves isolationist

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Good for Bangladesh.. that nation really needed a break. 18$ billion in clothing sales for the first 7 months of the year is quite a substantial industry. Once you get even one product that you can sell to the rest of the world, the nation can use that money to import advanced technology and start developing.

China is moving up the value chain.. and their economy is becoming more inward focused. China needs the labour of its people in continuing to develop the nation, not so much in exporting cheap products anymore.

Chinese imports are huge and growing as well. For example the article mentioned that Indonesia and Vietnam have taken over footwear production. Well a China with people with some decent disposable income will need hundreds of millions of shoes every year.

[/quote/]

Bangladesh could be in a good position to play off India against China and get alot of development and trade.

China is currently building a new highway that will connect its South West provinces (Kunming) with Chittagong via Burma enabling good access to the Indian Ocean and beyond avoiding the bottleneck that is waters around the Singapore & Mallaca straights. Future plans may be pipelines and railways and possibly facilities for its navy.

I've read a few Indian bloggers whinging about this Chinese influence in their back yard, worried about future military build up. Its a new version of the Great Game

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When either side of the boss/worker equation takes the pi55, it's a mutual death sentence for both sides.

Mutual except for the boss in Oz, it seems.

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So the 'rising tide' flows on to cheaper climes in search of new slaves to exploit. The good news is that China will now have to climb the added value chain- the bad news is that in their doing so the going rate will drop like a stone.

those poor exploited slaves.

to think of all the great times they could be having eking out an existence by scratching the earth and praying for good weather.

Their increased wages and better standard of living will be cold comfort when they think they could be working longer hours for lower pay out in the boiling heat of the equatorial sun.

Now they might be able to save some money, stop working before they die, or (god forbid) be able to afford to send their children to school so they can learn to read and write.

You really cant imagine how the market revolution ever caught on, can you?

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Bangladesh could be in a good position to play off India against China and get alot of development and trade.

China is currently building a new highway that will connect its South West provinces (Kunming) with Chittagong via Burma enabling good access to the Indian Ocean and beyond avoiding the bottleneck that is waters around the Singapore & Mallaca straights. Future plans may be pipelines and railways and possibly facilities for its navy.

I've read a few Indian bloggers whinging about this Chinese influence in their back yard, worried about future military build up. Its a new version of the Great Game

Interesting I did not know of those plans in Bangladesh. I knew the Chinese are really helping Pakistan develop, and there are proposals for vast new projects there that the Chinese would fund and build. And in Burma construction is under way on some mega-projects.

I do know there is some Indian plans to help Bangladesh develop. They will have to speed those up, or those nations will fall more into China's circle of influence. I read the issue India faces in helping countries is things move slowly with India and finances are an issue. Whereas leaders in those nations need projects started ASAP, which the Chinese are amazing in their speed.

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