Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Bagehot

Brown U-turn On Sipps

Recommended Posts

The regional news for the East of England had a discussion on the change in SIPPS. The presenter read a statement from HM Treasury and there were signs in it that indicated a possible u-turn....wait for the pre-budget report in Nov now. May sanity takehold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That must be due to the letter I wrote to my MP then!! It's been passed on to the relevant treasury minister. I'd encourage everyone who wants this SIPPs policy overturned (or u-turned) to do the same. MPs and spin doctors look at each letter they get as equivalent to the opinion of 10,000 people as most people can't be arsed to write.

If SIPPs get withdrawn it could have a big effect (more so than if it goes through). I think a lot of construction that might have been halted on blocks of flats, has gone ahead as developers believe they're going to be able to cash in. Also, people have kept the prices of two bed flats etc high believing there will be a surge in demand next April because of SIPPs (even though such a surge would never happen anyway).

Ultimately it is a vile policy that only benefits the super rich and shows just how far Nulabour have gone from their roots, and indeed from middle England who wouldn't benefit from this either. GB is a tosser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said - ultimately I don't think it will start another round of HP inflation but I'm sure it will slow the rate at which prices come down - lets hope they do scrap it - one less thing to worry about!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as much as i'd love to believe this i think it is pure fantasy. gordo would cut off his left bollock to keep house prices up and therefore there is no chance of him scrapping SIPPS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there may be a real possibility of some kind of u-turn on SIPPS - Other govt depts are concerned about this e.g. DEFRA who will be raising their concerns with the treasury.

http://www.yorkshiredales.org.uk/newsview....?ContentID=2812

I don't think that we will see an end to the SIPPS concept, but maybe some other sweetners like making second home owners pay the full council taxes on their proprties, or being forced to rent them out at affordable rates or some other fudge that makes it virtually impossible for your average joe to do anything with housing and SIPPS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gordo would cut off his left bollock to keep house prices up and therefore there is no chance of him scrapping SIPPS.

Yes, although Gordon knows that the public finances are going to be extremely stretch this next few years - SIPPs might be judged as being too expensive for the Government.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he'll use the SFA's inability to include property under their control until 2007 to announce a delay in his pre-budget statement, then maybe next year he will quietly drop it, or still let it go through in 2007, but by then the market will be in such a mess that only the dimmest of millionaires would consider buying property.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimately it is a vile policy that only benefits the super rich and shows just how far Nulabour have gone from their roots, and indeed from middle England who wouldn't benefit from this either.

GB is a tosser.

Is it only the inclusion of residential property in the scheme that bothers you? Or, do you object to any assets being used to provide a pension? Am I right in thinking, from your comments, that you'd like Labour to confiscate people's long-term savings and provide everyone with a standard income at retirement?

Labour has moved on; you obviously haven't. If you're interested in policies that are stuck in the past, I would suggest that you support the Tories (you probably already do). They're well and truly stuck there.

GB is a tosser.

It must really hurt to see GB again appointed Chancellor after Labour win, by a mile, for the third time. And to think that you've then got to face the probability of him getting the premiership and going on to win a fourth election. Poor you. How you must suffer. :P

p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it only the inclusion of residential property in the scheme that bothers you? Or, do you object to any assets being used to provide a pension? Am I right in thinking, from your comments, that you'd like Labour to confiscate people's long-term savings and provide everyone with a standard income at retirement?

Labour has moved on; you obviously haven't. If you're interested in policies that are stuck in the past, I would suggest that you support the Tories (you probably already do).

Are you one of those New Labour spies that we talked about in another thread. You sound like the kind of indoctrinated muppet that slavishly follows the rubbish they spew.

Why would I be a Tory when I'm furious with labour for introducing a policy that benefits the rich at the expense of the less well off? Does that sound Tory to you?

I am all for flexible pension schemes which can encorporate various assets, but what I object to is a scheme which allows investment into a fundamental asset that everyone needs, and effectively gives a discount of 40% on the purchase price of that asset. These people do not need that 40% as much as FTBs who are in the 22% tax bracket, but you don't see the treasury giving 22% rebates on mortgage repayments even though the government says that property is beyond the reach of most young people.

I do not object to people investing in property, but I do object to them being able to do it tax free when those who are most in need get ****** all help from the government.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you one of those New Labour spies that we talked about in another thread. You sound like the kind of indoctrinated muppet that slavishly follows the rubbish they spew.

Why would I be a Tory when I'm furious with labour for introducing a policy that benefits the rich at the expense of the less well off? Does that sound Tory to you?

I am all for flexible pension schemes which can encorporate various assets, but what I object to is a scheme which allows investment into a fundamental asset that everyone needs, and effectively gives a discount of 40% on the purchase price of that asset. These people do not need that 40% as much as FTBs who are in the 22% tax bracket, but you don't see the treasury giving 22% rebates on mortgage repayments even though the government says that property is beyond the reach of most young people.

I do not object to people investing in property, but I do object to them being able to do it tax free when those who are most in need get ****** all help from the government.

Yes, I'm one of those Labour spies but, obviously, I have to keep quiet about it!! Glad to hear you're not a Tory.

This 40% discount is, as you know, nothing new i.e. it's been available all along but not for investment in residential property. Do you want tax relief at the top rate disallowed for pension saving? Bearing in mind that this brilliant site has convinced us all that hardly anyone in the country will take up the 'SIPP residential property' idea, I'm not sure what you're worrying about. In any case, all houseowners get a _huge_ tax relief by not having to pay Capital Gains Tax on their profits. Do you want the return of MIRAS so that everyone who buys a house on mortgage gets tax relief? If so, what about giving tax relief to the even less well off who have to rent? What services do you want cut to pay for it? Or would you prefer tax increases? You need to think through your ideas. Just ranting on about your dislikes doesn't impress.

p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MIRAS simply leveled the market for ordinary buyers, as investors *alreadly* got tax relief to a large degree via claimed depreciation and losses against rental income compare to mortgage payments.

The addition of a 40% tax break on purchases is a total killer for investors and will push prices up way out of reach of ordinary buyers, forcing credit polarisation from ordinary mortgagees to investors, and a slave society of renting with little real possiblity of owning.

Investors will always outbid FTBers like they do now, but this measure raises the possiblity that credit will simply not be there for ordinary mortgagees as they do not have any tax breaks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MIRAS simply leveled the market for ordinary buyers, as investors *alreadly* got tax relief to a large degree via claimed depreciation and losses against rental income compare to mortgage payments.

That is incorrect. Owner occupiers get the biggest tax break of all; they don't have to pay tax on the benefit they receive from their investment in property. Once upon a time they did; if you owned the house you lived in, you were deemed to be paying yourself a market rent and had to pay income tax on it, and under this regime MIRAS made sense. It should have been abolished at the same time as taxation of imputed rent for owner occupiers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to think through your ideas. Just ranting on about your dislikes doesn't impress.

I come on to this site to rant, if you come here to impress you are sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Charlie The Tramp
That is incorrect. Owner occupiers get the biggest tax break of all; they don't have to pay tax on the benefit they receive from their investment in property

The majority of Owner Occupiers purchase their property to live in , normally with earned income which they have already paid tax on. When they pass on they pay death duties of 40% above the threshold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must really hurt to see GB again appointed Chancellor after Labour win, by a mile, for the third time.

An odd twist on reality. Getting 40% of the 60% of people that voted to vote for you is not winning by a mile. Under our daft electoral system getting 24% of the people that bother to vote to vote for you means you have a working majority in the House of Commons.

In a sane world it would mean a coalition.

You are obviously feeling smug for some odd reason. I wonder why? As I see it this country is in the biggest mess in my lifetime - and New Labour are largely to blame for it.

Allowing property into SIPPs is really quite disgusting. The founders of the Labour Party will be spinning in their graves. If the Tories had come up with it the unions would have called a general strike. It is quite bizarre.

Why should one person be given tax relief to allow them to buy a property? With a limited supply of property it will, by definition, skew the property market in favour of wealthy people. Take it to its logical conclusion and over the next few generations all the property in this country will move into the hands of a few wealthy people. The rest will then have to rent like serfs.

There will be a revolution one day when young people realise quite how well they have been shafted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

info@new.labour.org.uk

e-mail New Labour and let em know what you think. Send this around to your mates and indudate the New Labour web site.

Thanks Bagshot + uro_who. I've just emailed them. Probably won't do any good, but I cannot let this policy go ahead without someone in New Labour knowing of my disgust.

I would also urge others to do the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is being discussed on another thread, but just so the message gets through I've cut and paste into this thread. This policy makes me mad, truly furious with Labour, it isn't just a betrayal of their founding ideals, it is a betrayal of the ordinary hard working middle Englanders that they wooed in 1997. I've never wrote to an MP before, but this pushed me over the edge.

"Write a letter to your MP as well, that often has more affect as they have to answer them. I wrote to mine a few weeks ago and got a reply saying that it had been forwarded to Stephen Timms, a treasury minister. This is a draft of the letter I wrote:

Dear Celia Barlow,

I am writing in vehement opposition to the new changes to SIPPS, whereby the chancellor will allow second properties to be included in Pension plans and for the purchasers to obtain upto 40% tax relief on such purchases.

Considering the current ludicrous prices in the Brighton and Hove area where someone like myself, a Ph.D. qualified professional earning k40, is struggling to afford a two bed flat, the thought that the government is about to subsidise the purchase of properties by the super rich so that these properties become even more out of the reach of ordinary people, is unbelievably repugnant. They make some of Mrs Thatchers tax policies look Chartist in comparison.

I will never vote labour again if this policy goes through. It is disgusting.

Yours sincerely,

To find out who your MP is go to http://www.locata.co.uk/commons/. Then send the letter to this address:

House of Commons

London

SW1A 0AA"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a recent STRer who is hopnig to buy after the crash. This SIPPS thing is going to mean more properties coming onto the rental market, and therefore a lot of highly geared BTLers going under due to the fall in rents. You should be celebrating!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am all for flexible pension schemes which can encorporate various assets, but what I object to is a scheme which allows investment into a fundamental asset that everyone needs,

I think you'll find that the point of something being an asset is that people need it :P

and effectively gives a discount of 40% on the purchase price of that asset. These people do not need that 40% as much as FTBs who are in the 22% tax bracket, but you don't see the treasury giving 22% rebates on mortgage repayments even though the government says that property is beyond the reach of most young people.

This has been discussed to death already. The tax rebate is not a discount as tax will be payable later. I bet there are people who need your money more than you do. I am sure you will want to follow the inescapable logic of your argument and give it to them without delay.

I do not object to people investing in property, but I do object to them being able to do it tax free when those who are most in need get ****** all help from the government.

It might help to repeat this once more. Property purchased in a SIPP is not tax-free. Owner/occupiers get better tax-breaks than anyone purchasing property in a pension. BTW, if O/Os got a tax rebate on the purchase price, what do you think would happen to house prices?

Thanks,

MoD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wouldn't surprise me if there is U turn on SIPPS - he can't afford to give away billions in tax relief to the very wealthy at the current time.

He desperately needs to find more money for another council tax bailout next year. Because of the changes in schools funding English local authorities will only be getting a 0.3% average rise in grant next year on the basis of the current allocations. This is going to push council taxes through the roof next year!

How about abandoning an unnecessary (and despicable) tax break for extremely wealthy people who don't need it to enable them to buy second homes and using the proceeds to keep council taxes down for pensioners and the low paid! Seems quite possible to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The majority of Owner Occupiers purchase their property to live in , normally with earned income which they have already paid tax on. When they pass on they pay death duties of 40% above the threshold.

They also have paid tax on the income earned to buy the property in the first place, a tax to buy it (stamp duty), & a tax on maintaining it (VAT on paint/electrical work/building work).

I think Gordon Brown has lost the support of the Murdoch press - its a constant drip feed of news items as to how under his stewardship the UK economy has become the sick man of Europe - even former champions like the Times have started laughing at the way selectively uses his made up statistics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.