Venger Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) Just heard tale of another Prestbury property-developer/investor.. can't say too much in case I get people, or myself, into trouble. Don't think things have turned out, or around, as they might have expected them to do. From what I gathered, going to keep my eye out for any news and property listings, on that stretch of houses/commercial on the same side of the Admiral Rodney, although ultimately they will probably own a house elsewhere in the area as well. Edited March 16, 2013 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 As an anecdote, we had estimated the houses needed ~130k spending on it. This was a very considered estimate with reasonable contingency. My view is that the buyer will spend 550k+130k rennovation + 30k stamp = 710k and be able to sell for over 800k. So despite the price I do expect the buyer to make a profit (if indeed that's the reason they've bought it rather than as a home. Ah I'd forgotten about this; so it was habitable provided quite a bit of money spent on it. That particular road/drive in Prestbury certainly is popular with the footballers. Gather one of the younger footballers (ex-City) lives/lived on it as well; who had a lot of bling-money furnishings when his house shown in the newspapers. I still think there is a bit of a gamble involved on those figures, for any developer seeking profit, although they'd probably get away with an £800K+ sale, all things considered, especially the enclave of people the Drive has been associated with living there. And next to higher asking prices of the modern newbuilds; although values which have and continue to be under pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 http://www.rightmove...y-34136941.html Bought by a developer 5 years ago (nothing done) for 900k. On at 700k, so prob end up being a 1/4 million loss? Youch. Sold data now is up on public house price data sites: £549,645 - Sold on: 15th Nov 2012 http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/whiteoak-cottage/collar-house-drive/prestbury/macclesfield/sk10-4ap/21568465 15 Nov 2012 £549,645 03 Oct 2007 £900,000 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=37278724&sale=48472388&country=england Although I think there has been a glitch with Rightmove's page, as it says it's 'currently on the market', when it seems to me the house they link to is WB's house. Am I right in thinking the site consisted of a pair of semis? Looks that way to me and even the old Rightmove pic gave me the impression it was split properties. The last planning app I've found didn't go well for the application for demolishing and replacement dwelling. (Just enter the postcode here = http://planning.cheshireeast.gov.uk/ApplicationSearch.aspx) Proposal: Proposed demolition of existing pair of semi detached cottages and erection of replacement dwellingDECISION MADE Decision / Date Decision Made: refused / 30-Mar-2012 I don't want to draw any people involved to this thread/post, so I will omit the house name. There's a lot of documents there I've only glanced at and some I haven't. Lots of the documents involved in the process of application for a new development such as ***** *** ****** is included in the Cheshire East list of Locally Important Buildings and is therefore an acknowledged heritage asset. The proposal would result in the total loss of significance of this heritage asset. The Council is not satisfied that it has been demonstrated that the building is beyond reasonable repair and its significance as a heritage asset cannot be preserved. Thank you for consulting the Victorian Society on this application. We object to the application, which would entail the loss of a locally listed building. ***** *** ******* is a mid-Victorian vernacular building. It is important as an increasingly rare example of the local vernacular, show how working people of the period lived and how the local building tradition evolved. The local bricks root the building firmly into its area ect ect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 http://www.rightmove...y-37971163.htm SK10 4AR. (3 'Mallory') http://www.harman-he...nt-Auction.aspx Entry 32. Decided not to bother as: - the RM listing says 'Guide' 750k whereas the auction site says 'Offers Over' 750k so I imagine a high reserve. We'd need it considerably below 750 - the auction is two weeks after the listing. Not much time for us (or others) to view, carry out any checks and arrange finance - it's in London Harman Healy have updated the auction results = Unsold, the last bid was £745,000 and is available at £800,000. Again my theories don't stand up. Lot of money still around chasing such homes, although maybe I should reconsider as it may have had a higher peak value than I imagined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straycat_67 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Harman Healy have updated the auction results = Unsold, the last bid was £745,000 and is available at £800,000. Again my theories don't stand up. Lot of money still around chasing such homes, although maybe I should reconsider as it may have had a higher peak value than I imagined. I'm actually suprised it even reached £745K, was expecting nothing more than £700K. Considering the current owner paid - Last sale: £305,000 Sale date: 30th Sep 1998 , which IF that was a true representation back of a "real" price back then I would have thought circa £600-650K should/would be the real value today. I think it's a good buy for an end user or a small time developer who can re jig the current footprint/facade etc, spend on refurb circa £150K and I'd imagine the value would be touching the £1 - 1.2 million mark once completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) I'm actually suprised it even reached £745K, was expecting nothing more than £700K. Considering the current owner paid - Last sale: £305,000 Sale date: 30th Sep 1998 , which IF that was a true representation back of a "real" price back then I would have thought circa £600-650K should/would be the real value today. I think it's a good buy for an end user or a small time developer who can re jig the current footprint/facade etc, spend on refurb circa £150K and I'd imagine the value would be touching the £1 - 1.2 million mark once completed. With you on what you would have thought the real value should/would be around the real market value today, and the highest bid surprised me too. Also surprised the bank didn't come back and accept it. I'm not too sure about your refurb numbers. I doubt it's in the best of condition internally, from the one internal pic of the swimming pool, else they would have used those pics in the listing. Yes it has large gardens.. but how much extra value is that. Perhaps more so if you could demolish and build two houses on the plot, but then build costs are high (for the moment). In the same postcode you could probably buy either of these houses with an offer between for £1m-£1.2m (imo), and time will tell whether there is better value to be had in the future for such homes in the area. Asking price: £1,350,000. (It came to market in 2008 at Guide Price £2,200,000.) [straycat I trust you have Property-Bee installed on your computer.] http://www.rightmove...y-19971737.html Asking price: £1,295,000. (Even has a 'detached independent suite' but I don't know if such things attract secondary council tax - see pic 9). http://www.rightmove...y-38826986.html Edited March 29, 2013 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Wonder what the back-story is with this house? Last sale: £1,835,000 | Sale date: 11th Aug 2011 http://www.rightmove...country=england http://www.zoopla.co...10-4ap/21568459 Sale Date: Price Paid: 11 Aug 2011. £1,835,000 31 Oct 2006. £1,960,000 10 Jan 2002. £1,300,000 30 Nov 2000. £540,000 Seems to be back on the market, little more than a year after it last sold, with Property-Bee tagging it on 31 October 2012, at asking price £1,800,000. http://www.rightmove...l?premiumA=true Looks vacant as well from the listing pics. Some sort of promotion with it: > *** £10,000 upgrade package available. Offers Invited *** Turn key Refurbishment Available.... < Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 I was also surprised by the high bid and that it wasn't accepted. I thought they'd have taken 700. It is actually a pretty unique plot for the money. The key features for me is that it's private (mature grounds) and that you can walk along footpath into the village - this is critical as most large houses/plots in Prestbury do not have this and the roads can be lethal. The size easily allows for a building plot to be chopped out, which even in the current dead market for such things would attract a two to three hundred thousand. At the end of the day Venger there's a 500k difference between the auction bungalow (@800) and the houses you listed. Fair enough they will probably go some way below asking but I suspect it's still a 300k difference. The bungalow needs 80-150k spending based on my visit (bottom end basic kitchen, flooring etc, no upper ceiling on that stuff of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Good point about easy village access by foot, manchester50 Thanks for sharing some of your findings from your viewing, instead of our guesswork. Although it seems Straycat's estimate to modernise also is within the same range. I've not done any site inspection (way out of my price range) but I'm unsure how a building plot could be chopped out, without demolishing what's already there, and setting one house further back. Although maybe there is enough plot in the front garden for a house. If so, and planning agreeable, then I'd agree it would be worth a significant sum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Have to wonder whether that auction bungalow (new auction date) and its guide price has sent off red-alerts for other owners on Castle Hill. "But that's impossible; it's worth £1m+ as my house worth about £1.5m!" How much is a bigger garden actually worth if you can't redevelop the plot for additional housingit? Many hundreds of thousands of pounds? I think not. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-41241503.html?premiumA=true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I was also surprised by the high bid and that it wasn't accepted. I thought they'd have taken 700. It is actually a pretty unique plot for the money. The key features for me is that it's private (mature grounds) and that you can walk along footpath into the village - this is critical as most large houses/plots in Prestbury do not have this and the roads can be lethal. The size easily allows for a building plot to be chopped out, which even in the current dead market for such things would attract a two to three hundred thousand. At the end of the day Venger there's a 500k difference between the auction bungalow (@800) and the houses you listed. Fair enough they will probably go some way below asking but I suspect it's still a 300k difference. The bungalow needs 80-150k spending based on my visit (bottom end basic kitchen, flooring etc, no upper ceiling on that stuff of course). Nobody in Prestbury has legs. They take the Rangey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Auction again for this today: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38164783.html Entry 119: http://www.eigroup.co.uk/auctioneer-templates/guides.aspx?a=5&c=brn Notice this came to market earlier in the month.. a bit further out from the village. If I were in charge of planning I'd allow the bungalow to be demolished and quite a few 3-4 bedroom eco/passive homes to be built on the site. Although the neighbour with the tennis court might object, along with others. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-26496609.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Auction again for this today: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38164783.html Entry 119: http://www.eigroup.co.uk/auctioneer-templates/guides.aspx?a=5&c=brn Notice this came to market earlier in the month.. a bit further out from the village. If I were in charge of planning I'd allow the bungalow to be demolished and quite a few 3-4 bedroom eco/passive homes to be built on the site. Although the neighbour with the tennis court might object, along with others. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-26496609.html Yes, I'm interested in the outcome of today's mortgage. I find it very odd that the previous auction had it listed as guide of 750k and yet a bid of 750k was not accepted. Since then it has been on with bridgfords @750. Be interesting to see what they accept today. That other house on the way to Mottram, it's a very odd-shaped plot. Too narrow to take the normal route round there of selling off a parcel at the back and running a drive up to it (at least without losing your garden). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yes, I'm interested in the outcome of today's mortgage. I find it very odd that the previous auction had it listed as guide of 750k and yet a bid of 750k was not accepted. Since then it has been on with bridgfords @750. Be interesting to see what they accept today. That other house on the way to Mottram, it's a very odd-shaped plot. Too narrow to take the normal route round there of selling off a parcel at the back and running a drive up to it (at least without losing your garden). Guide Price: £750,000. Outcome: Unsold, the last bid was £770,000. Please refer to Auctioneer for Reserve. Versus the outcome of a few weeks ago, when it was previously in auction = Unsold, the last bid was £745,000 and is available at £800,000 Yes that other house further out, on the way to Mottram, is on quite a narrow strip from the driveway. The existing bungalow at the end of the driveway has very little appeal from what I can see of it in the photo. Kinder to knock it down, either to make way for a larger home, or finding some way to squeeze on 2+ houses in a sympathetic way. I've seen an owner down South willing to keep their existing home and lose a lot of their garden to the side, to allow an access road to reach the back. Done in order to build two houses at the back from their own back garden, and gardens that they'd acquired from the neighbours in previous years. Didn't work out as they originally anticipated. Houses just about built, although the listing photos still had them look like on a building site, and put on the market for over a year, and held there at dizzy asking prices. Both newbuilds in rear gardens end up being sold for less than half originally asking prices, late 2010 and early 2011. And of course their original home having lost side grounds. I'd personally put up with such a development with an access road running close to the original house, if it all worked out cost-effective, but I know many people such as yourself want a house with some grounds; not some awkward plot, which is asking an upper end price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Guide Price: £750,000. Outcome: Unsold, the last bid was £770,000. Please refer to Auctioneer for Reserve. Versus the outcome of a few weeks ago, when it was previously in auction = Unsold, the last bid was £745,000 and is available at £800,000 Got to admit I'm surprised the 770k wasn't accepted. Normally repo sales don't mess around like that, they just want some money back. Wonder if the 745k and 770k were the same bidder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Got to admit I'm surprised the 770k wasn't accepted. Normally repo sales don't mess around like that, they just want some money back. Wonder if the 745k and 770k were the same bidder? Yes I was wondering whether it was the same two bidders, casting my mind back to a small auction I attended a few months ago, when after the gavel looked to be going down, two bidders really began fiercely competing over one entry. Although there was a final winner and the transaction went through. I don't know how such things work, but wonder whether the first secured/main/priority charge either needs £800K to recover the main part of what is owed to them, or whether they believe that figure is just commercially realistic, and are willing to hold out of it, month after money with it re-entered into auctions. Yet that must have its costs as well. Or, whether any of the other charges on the property, on behalf of other businesses, have any sway in pressing for the reserve. If I were them I'd be hoping to recover some of what the person/business owed me. (*Copy of the Register of Title in the auction entries). In the copy of the title register thingy I see there's a few covenants against developing the site and limiting what can be done. Eg: no more than one dwellinghouse ect ect. No idea if such old covenants can be worked-around, but I would hope they could be. Already mentioned my concerns with mowing lawns for some of these houses with large grounds, but I guess it's easier with a professional gardener or motorised tools for the purpose. Also with the other Prestbury house with the awkward plot and long driveway, and the back-garden houses in my attached pic.... I'm glad I'm not the one who has to put out and wheel back in the litter/recycling bins out on collection days each week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadd Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 ...month after money with it re-entered into auctions. Yet that must have its costs as well. I was thinking about just that when I read your post yesterday. From the quick bit of Googling I did, it seems the auction can be free of charges to the seller, with all costs being stumped-up by the buyer (1.5% or so, from those I found.) No sale, no fee, as long as the auctioneer and seller both agree a set reserve price before the auction begins; in this case that figure seems to be £800k. I guess if the monthly costs on the property aren't adding up to anything substantial, they may feel it's worth repeatedly offering it to the market during the "Spring Bounce" and Summer selling season. I mean, holding out this far got them and extra £20k, so who knows what might happen next time around (or the next.) Obviously this approach has its dangers and could easily backfire, though. Still, for now, they seem to be sticking to their guns. Already mentioned my concerns with mowing lawns for some of these houses with large grounds, but I guess it's easier with a professional gardener or motorised tools for the purpose. Also with the other Prestbury house with the awkward plot and long driveway, and the back-garden houses in my attached pic.... I'm glad I'm not the one who has to put out and wheel back in the litter/recycling bins out on collection days each week. Most of the folks I know with houses half the price of this one have a gardener. So the lawn is no problem. As regards "running" a house like this, you can get a "French maid" (no kidding) for peanuts these days. All the professional couples with kids I know have a live-in nanny or a "five days a week helper" from somewhere in Europe (where there's huge youth unemployment, so many are happy to come over to the UK for work.) Cost is about £15k-18k a year. Peanuts to a professional couple who are both working - in fact, it actually pays for itself, as a professional wife out working is likely to earn 4 to 8 times that amount. Taking care of the kids, getting them to school and back, putting out the bins, cleaning the house (yada, yada) is all taken care of, cheaply. If you can afford to spend ~£800k on a house - and one which still needs a lot more spending on it - you can probably afford to run it to. Manual labour is very cheap and plentiful these days, and no longer just the province of the rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I've known of a couple of people who had nannies, covering some of the duties you suggest, including doing the school-runs. In fact one of them outlined how it was all cost-effective for them and gave them peace of mind, to alternatives. There was an issue with the other couple when their nanny fell ill for some months although I don't know the full details; not sure you'd want to be in a position where you have to pay sick-pay, and need a new nanny to take over. One of my sister's friends covered for the sick nanny for a few weeks in that instance, although I think she did it basically for free. It's not for me to make any comment on work-vs-homelife balance, although I ask myself what use is an upper-end house if you have to spend your lives burning out in pressure careers to earn the money to pay the mortgage on, with the additional requirements such as cost of nannies, missing out on quality time with your children. Was watching a documentary on BBC a couple of weeks ago, and it was talking about live-in staff, just as more industrial work was offering new opportunities to people, and where a change in society was coming on from that sector of work; serving. I was thinking for some, opportunity is tightening back up again, and there could be more work in private households; and why not. Likely to become even more affordable as we go forwards I would have thought... nannies, household cleaning ect, although last year I was a bit taken aback to hear someone's gardener who comes twice weekly in Summer and less so in Winter, charges £17 an hour; yes I know they've invested in the van and tools ect and in this case have expert knowledge of plants and stuff, but I'm sure there will be more competitive rates going forwards. It might already be starting to happen in some sectors. BBC Scotland 22/04/13: Federation of Master Builders (FMB) director for Scotland, Grahame Barn, said all work, especially in the domestic repair, maintenance and improvement market, was very price sensitive. "To secure work our members are working on minimal margin - if any at all," he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadd Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 There was an issue with the other couple when their nanny fell ill for some months although I don't know the full details; not sure you'd want to be in a position where you have to pay sick-pay, and need a new nanny to take over. All the people I know get their staff via an agency, so the agency is responsible for sick pay, etc., and the immediate replacement of staff who fall ill. Most of the people doing these jobs are fairly young and fit - and desperate for the work as well as good references at the end of their stint - so I don't think "illness" issues put most people off. ...although I ask myself what use is an upper-end house if you have to spend your lives burning out in pressure careers to earn the money to pay the mortgage on, with the additional requirements such as cost of nannies, missing out on quality time with your children. "Upper-end" house? I would have thought the same applies to most professional couples these days, irrespective of what kind of house they are buying. I mean, look at some of the utter c-r-a-p terraces on very B-roads in Hale we discuss - £300k-£500k. That's not easy money to reach for most younger professional couples these days; they have no choice but to both work. Kids come a distant second. I know of huge numbers of people under 40 with small children/babies; not one of them can afford a stay-at-home wife. And at the £800k bracket, well... It's certainly not the way I like to see a society run, but it is the way the UK works these days. And much of the rest of the world for that matter. And apologies to all the other readers of the thread for the drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) And apologies to all the other readers of the thread for the drift. It's nothing that new, although the costs are higher today. My mother took a career break in the mid 80s and did 2-3 years of after-school childminding. Parents would collect their kids into the evening. Don't think she made much money from it, just enough to turnover. The parents back then had lower mortgage debt to incomes as well, to cover the childcare costs, than people in same position today mostly. And child-minding rates are probably higher today; certainly I don't think my mother had to do a 12 hour Paediatric First Aid Course and gain a certificate + Introducing Childminding Practices course (again a 12 hour course), although she may have had some equivalent of Ofsted inspections as per today with the local authority. Not saying the requirements today are a bad thing; they make sense. It's an advantage to have close family around to help with such things; like grandparents, and older brothers and sisters who aren't tied to a job or career who care enough to help. Sadly that's not an option for many people, when not being close with family, or when moving around to settle elsewhere, either out of choice or to follow work. Upper end salaries, for those in their 30s who've managed to reach that level, (£50K+) doesn't go very far against housing costs and the additional expense like nannies and childcare, let alone fitting house out, cars, private schools. So the thought in my mind when you say a career couple in their 30s can easily afford to compete in market for the £200-£250K houses; is many of them will have to cover other costs like childminding. Very few of them will ever be able to trade up either, when committing to buy an average house at a huge price of £200K-£250K. If they do the calcs maybe there won't be as many couples competing for such homes; I don't like to disagree with you but I don't think there are as many, or will be a continued flow of, such couples competing for such homes to prop up that price range. Sorry for the drift as well. Edited April 26, 2013 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Yes; they really seem to be determined to achieve £800K. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-41198537.html Brief Description changed: AUCTION SALE 23 April 2013 AVAILABLE AT £800,000 Price changed: Guide Price £750,000 £800,000 I've had a think of what you say Nomadd about them holding out for their price, and how costs can be limited. Also if it's a repo, then if the previous owner has any equity, then I guess additional costs of seeking a certain price would come out of their pot of equity, when it finally sells. Maybe the ex-owner(s) is the one calling on his lender to seek best possible price, if it's not also those who have charges on the property. Yes holding out did get them an improved bid at the 2nd auction. If I were in possession my concern would be there's only a limited number of bidders willing to near that price range on bids/offers for this 'opportunity', and what if one or two of them decide to commit to some other property in the meantime. Obviously there will be more participants in the market willing to bid/offer for the property at lower ranges. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Yes, I noticed that change. Have been quite surprised by it to be honest. Is 770 really that far from 800? They must be confident of achieving it, and maybe they're right. It only needs one, but from a relatively small pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straycat_67 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38164783.html Considering they had higher offers at auction rejected it's rather interesting to see it's now tied up for LESS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Thanks Straycat, for bringing that update to the forum. Very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Yes I'd seen that. Spoke to the agent a few times before that offer was formally acknowledged. Constrained by their policies, the seller was unable to sell at 750 at auction so subsequently they instructed a number of valuations - once they had a avg valuation which was lower they could then accept the 735. There were several offers over 700. Made clear it was outside my budget so we were able to have an open conversation about it. Not Prestbury but this is interesting...: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36994322.html http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=36994322&sale=49132172&country=england Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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