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backtoparents

Unions 1, Nu Gov 0

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No, as usual it's "pile the costs on the young" and defer the problem until later and to the next generation.

Precisely.

When the age discrimination laws come in soon, I can see all these decisions being challenged.

I also see the Defined Benefit schemes being closed to existing members never mind new members as it could be argued that these too are age discriminatory if closed to new emplpoyees.

Interesting times.

NDL

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With many things not too rosy, the Government wouldn't want industrial action by public sector workers at the moment. Might look like they are losing control rather than being firm.

It doesn't bind any future Government though and this issue will raise it's head more and more in the future for all the reasons most here are aware of.

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This is unbelievable. As I said in another poll.. this country sux more everyday!

IMHO,

Public Sector 1 , Private Sector 0

I want to change the side(if you can not beaat them join them)

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Personally I think this was all done and dusted before the election but kept under the carpet to keep the public happy.

Have to say this has actually made me ( for the first time ever ) want to write a stinker to my local MP.

D

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I was watching a government drone on the news earlier claiming that this was the result they wanted. What a moron.

One thing of interest is that this doesn't apply to local government workers. I notice the deal mentioned covers nurses and teachers, who I'm sure people would miss if they went on strike. I wonder if the government are planning to hold firm on making local government workers for longer.

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I notice the deal mentioned covers nurses and teachers, who I'm sure people would miss if they went on strike.

People would miss nurses but not teachers.

Teaching a sullen 14 year old French doesn't make you indispensable in my book.

Teachers are mostly glorified childminders, freeing the mums up to work and create a dual income household and therefore boost house prices.

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People would miss nurses but not teachers.

Teaching a sullen 14 year old French doesn't make you indispensable in my book.

Teachers are mostly glorified childminders, freeing the mums up to work and create a dual income household and therefore boost house prices.

Ermmmm, OK then. In a world where the only way we can compete on innovation you suggest teachers should face the axe! Why, despite a not so great economy, can the Japanese continue to dominate the electronics and car markets? It's not through luck but hard work and good education! They didn't learn how to make reliable, fuel efficient cars having been given a magic potion by some mountain pixies. It comes from a solid understanding of mathematics and statistical analysis.

:blink:

Transport & education IMO are key. As emotive as the NHS is, it is a huge drain on the economy. 3rd largest employer in the world, only the Indian Railways and Chinese Red Army employ more people apparently.

Doesn't this ring alarm bells?

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Well at least that will stop the 700billion public sector pension deficit getting any bigger - its good to see the government has the cojones to tackle the problem head-on

Will it? I don't trust actuaries or governments.

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Guest struthitsruth

Transport & education IMO are key. As emotive as the NHS is, it is a huge drain on the economy.

Oh Yes !

"The NHS pensionable pay bill was around £23 billion in 2003, which accounts for almost half of NHS spending. £4.7 billion of pension contributions were paid: £3.3 billion by employers and £1.4 billion by employees. "

http://www.nhsemployers.org/PayAndConditio...and_figures.asp

It's not a question of doing without them though, just revising their public sector "normal" pensionable age to a position where they work for at least as many years as they retire, thus making their comfortable index linked fund a tad more affordable.

Being a private sector worker myself, and considering the growth to date of my personal pension fund, I'm sure that I'll be dead before I can retire. Oh well, who wants to get old anyway . . . . sooner wear out than rust out !

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I say well done to the unions to make the government do a U-turn on pensions. That’s what the members pay their money for. Thatcher robbed the working person of what little defence they had back in the eighties. It’s about time some of this imbalance was redressed. They did the same to the Rent Act. More rights of the poor were thrown down the drain. Those called selfish baby boomers and their parents fort a hard and difficult fight to win those rights. Somebody asked on another thread “What would have happened if Thatcher did not win the election in 1979?”, perhaps we would have some industry left. I wonder what would happen if we were involved in a European conventional war now. We have no industry to defend ourselves.

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I say well done to the unions to make the government do a U-turn on pensions. That’s what the members pay their money for. Thatcher robbed the working person of what little defence they had back in the eighties. It’s about time some of this imbalance was redressed. They did the same to the Rent Act. More rights of the poor were thrown down the drain. Those called selfish baby boomers and their parents fort a hard and difficult fight to win those rights. Somebody asked on another thread “What would have happened if Thatcher did not win the election in 1979?”, perhaps we would have some industry left. I wonder what would happen if we were involved in a European conventional war now. We have no industry to defend ourselves.

Brown has robbed priavte pension savers of £5Bn + per year - and every year going into the future.

The baby boombers (particulalrly those in govt employment) in their greed are ensuring that future generations will struggle to fund any pension arrangements.

Why should one sector of workers paid for largely out of taxation have preferential retirement benefits such as a 10 year differential in retirement age.

We will have a lot less industry left as a result becuase the money comening out of private industry and taxation simply will not sustain growth or indeed allow industries to compete.

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Guest struthitsruth

I say well done to the unions to make the government do a U-turn on pensions. That’s what the members pay their money for. Thatcher robbed the working person of what little defence they had back in the eighties. It’s about time some of this imbalance was redressed. They did the same to the Rent Act. More rights of the poor were thrown down the drain. Those called selfish baby boomers and their parents fort a hard and difficult fight to win those rights. Somebody asked on another thread “What would have happened if Thatcher did not win the election in 1979?”, perhaps we would have some industry left. I wonder what would happen if we were involved in a European conventional war now. We have no industry to defend ourselves.

Just what do the "rights of the poor" have to do with public sector employees today ?

Head teacher today can earn £90K before retiring on final salary.

Its a question of funding - the reason that there aren't any final salary pension schemes on offer today in the private sector is that the costing has been done - they are unviable.

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“What would have happened if Thatcher did not win the election in 1979?”, perhaps we would have some industry left. I wonder what would happen if we were involved in a European conventional war now. We have no industry to defend ourselves.

With all respect, Margaret Thatcher has been gone for almost 15 years. If Tony Blair really wanted more industry (like back in the old days), he's had 8 whole years to do something about it.

Anyway, we didn't need industry back in the 70s to defend ourselves. The fact we had no lights on half the time left this country in effective blackout!

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With all respect, Margaret Thatcher has been gone for almost 15 years. If Tony Blair really wanted more industry (like back in the old days), he's had 8 whole years to do something about it.

Anyway, we didn't need industry back in the 70s to defend ourselves. The fact we had no lights on half the time left this country in effective blackout!

Edited for mis- paste

Anyway, we didn't need industry back in the 70s to defend ourselves. The fact we had no lights on half the time left this country in effective blackout!

That’s what was said in the Thirties.

Edited by wheresmyfoxhole

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Just what do the "rights of the poor" have to do with public sector employees today ?

Head teacher today can earn £90K before retiring on final salary.

Its a question of funding - the reason that there aren't any final salary pension schemes on offer today in the private sector is that the costing has been done - they are unviable.

Managing a budget of a million, plus workers and planning the operation of what is basically comparable to the working of a medium to large sized industrial unit (can be over 1000 pupils)... bit of a bargain for 90k, I'd say. You wouldn't get someone to do it for that in the private sector. Anyway, the important word there is CAN - the figure you mention is top whack for those working in very difficult LONDON secondary schools. Most heads are on about 45-50k, bit less outside the capital. That's why it's so hard for schools to fill vacancies. Now, civil servants... they don't deserve as much as they get as their job isn't even strenuous. Working in a school or as a nurse (lots of lifting and bending) is like blue collar factory work. By the time you are 60 you are physically knackered out.

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Guest struthitsruth

Managing a budget of a million, plus workers and planning the operation of what is basically comparable to the working of a medium to large sized industrial unit (can be over 1000 pupils)... bit of a bargain for 90k, I'd say. You wouldn't get someone to do it for that in the private sector. Anyway, the important word there is CAN - the figure you mention is top whack for those working in very difficult LONDON secondary schools. Most heads are on about 45-50k, bit less outside the capital. That's why it's so hard for schools to fill vacancies.

So 45-50K is hardly "poor" is it ?

Now, civil servants... they don't deserve as much as they get as their job isn't even strenuous. Working in a school or as a nurse (lots of lifting and bending) is like blue collar factory work. By the time you are 60 you are physically knackered out.

So if you work hard physically you should be able to retire earlier ? Tell that to an employer in the agricultural, horticultural, building, landscaping, recycling industries.

I mean what is your point ? That the salary is value for money ? The issue is retirement, and how it will be paid for. If Sylvia Hardy had campaigned to get her social worker colleagues of today to work a few years longer her council tax bill wouldn't have to rise the way it certainly will have to now.

:unsure:

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About the power cuts?

Perhaps we're misunderstanding eachother?

:huh:

Classixuk

Sorry mate, I had cut and paste trouble and I've realised my my point is now not valid. Never mind

Best wishes

Foxy

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The average person joining the NHS at 30 who's entitled to their pension at 60 is likely to live for another 25 years. That's 30 years service for 25 years pension. Very expensive.

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Guest absolutezero

Head teacher today can earn £90K before retiring on final salary.

Let's just clear that one up.

If he works 40 years it will be half final salary. And most secondary heads earn about £60k a year.

Also, teachers are more that glorified babysitters. The crime rate shoots up during the holidays. Someone has to keep the kids amused.

Admittedly the education system has it faults but teaching is not an easy job. Don't get me wrong it's not back breaking but being told to f**k off several times a day and battling against apathetic kids are the two big negatives.

That said, I wouldn't want to do anything else for a living.

Edited by absolutezero

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Admittedly the education system has it faults but teaching is not an easy job. Don't get me wrong it's not back breaking but being told to f**k off several times a day and battling against apathetic kids are the two big negatives.

I think it is disgraceful that you are put in that position. However there is something seriously wrong with a teaching culture and profession that has allowed this situation to occur in the first place, it can only be to the dtriment of educational standards as many good teachers would not put up with it, maybe that is it, a lot have simply left.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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