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Carehome Nightmare Part Ii


koala_bear
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16947973

The people who bought some of the Southern Cross have said they might not be able to refinance big loan this this summer.

What could possible have gone wrong?

:lol::lol::lol:

some hints:

RBS (cue Hester comments this am)

Private Equity style deal by Qatar

Registered in the Cayman Islands

At least they own most properties unlike southern cross so they have some assets.

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But that nice young Mr Lansley says we need more private firms involved in health provision,because the public sector is so bad at handling money.

I mean he must know what he is doing he has given a Billion pounds to a company full of experts to run a debt laden hospital.They have so much experience at Citibank,Wonga (at least they will have no problem with loans) Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley to name a few of the directors past or present employers.

A company that loses 95 million pounds a year running a small private healthcare enterprise taking over a hospital losing 5 million pounds a year what could go wrong.

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I'm sorry but shouldn't free market competition in the private sector only drive up standards?

I would imagine that the cost per resident represents amazing value to the tax payer, and pretty good value to those families that have to foot the bill because they fall foul of the capital rules, especially as any private sector venture is almost bound to lose money.

My partners mother pays for her care in a home, about £500 a week. They must have at least one full time member of staff for every two residents considering it is a 24/7 staffing job. Some Asians have built a multi-million pound new build and you think f**k how can this work , the £500 per week from each patient aint going to cover their costs.

These doctors must be super altruistic or just bad accountants. They must be very envious at the largesse when it comes to state hospitals.

Edited by crashmonitor
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I would imagine that the cost per resident represents amazing value to the tax payer, and pretty good value to those families that have to foot the bill because they fall foul of the capital rules, especially as any private sector venture is almost bound to lose money.

My partners mother pays for her care in a home, about £500 a week. They must have at least one full time member of staff for every two residents considering it is a 24/7 staffing job. Some Asians have built a multi-million pound new build and you think f**k how can this work , the £500 per week from each patient aint going to cover their costs.

These doctors must be super altruistic or just bad accountants. They must be very envious at the largesse when it comes to state hospitals.

Just looking at your quick example, you can see that the numbers dont work, at least not at the moment. The thing is can they push prices up? In the marketplace, if you dont pay what is asked you dont receive the supply. Can care providers turf people out?

I can only see prices rising from here, and that will put great pressure on politicians to stump up some money to pay for all of this. I still cant see how gilts are good value at 2% given the demands on the public purse that are forthcoming.

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I have a little knowledge on this subject,care homes and nursing homes are two different beasts. A care home does not in many cases have to employ registered nursing staff.

Meaning most of the labour is minimum wage and staffing levels are set to the needs of the residents.Many of this type of home with residents who have minimum needs are the ones that are closing.

If residents have more complex needs and require registered nurses it becomes a nursing home. Registered nurses working there are paid for by the NHS who determine how many are needed and reimburse the private owner their wages.

The NHS also pays for residents in carehomes who were once long term patients in mental and learning difficulties hospitals,add payments from Social Services the DHSS to the mix and you find the most profitable homes do not take private residents but target medium to high need individuals paid for by the state.

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I would imagine that the cost per resident represents amazing value to the tax payer, and pretty good value to those families that have to foot the bill because they fall foul of the capital rules, especially as any private sector venture is almost bound to lose money.

My partners mother pays for her care in a home, about £500 a week. They must have at least one full time member of staff for every two residents considering it is a 24/7 staffing job. Some Asians have built a multi-million pound new build and you think f**k how can this work , the £500 per week from each patient aint going to cover their costs.

These doctors must be super altruistic or just bad accountants. They must be very envious at the largesse when it comes to state hospitals.

The Asians will make money as i said before most of the newer nursing homes who are raking it in have NHS contracts to take people who are bed blocking.

People who have major problems but do not need hospital care. The contracts pay a great deal more than £500 a week and the home gets it most expensive staff paid for by the tax payer.

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1. Granny farming is a very low margin business, in its basic form.

2. The real reason for this dirty tricks campaign by the GMB has absolutely nothing at all to do with Four Seasons' financial position. The GMB has taken legal action of an 'interesting' nature against a number of the SX inheritees. Their legal action is, erm, interesting in that it seems to be focussed on getting GMB into places as the recognised union above all else, and is approaching the teamster tactics in the US. Whilst Four Seasons is a leveraged business, and it is in the course of a refinancing, I suspect that the truth is nothing like the headline. You really have to know (and I am not prepared to disclose on here, but it is, to me, less than ethical), what GMB is up to and what effect the GMB's action could have on the very jobs they are claiming they are trying to protect....

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  • 5 years later...
On 09/02/2012 at 10:30 AM, crashmonitor said:

Just doesn't work as a business model. These homes have to have a huge staffing ratio, property is expensive to buy , maintain and heat. and the residents £500 p/w fees are never going to cover that.

£500?  More like £1000 anywhere around here.  

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  • 1 month later...
On 18/10/2017 at 9:39 PM, Will! said:

Debt-laden care homes giant Four Seasons makes survival appeal as interest deadline looms

Even with negative real interest rates this zombie can't stagger on.

It’s still not resolved. It looks complicated and messy with what I can tell seem to have private equity owner and a hedge fund  financing. I think with this one would need to unpick the dividends , history, etc. Not easy to unpick either would probably have complicated group company structures.

Edited by Ash4781
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I spent much of last weekend and early last week looking round nursing homes for an elderly relative who is getting NHS funding due to his chronic conditions. Several were absolutely horrible with small box rooms - and the smell even worse. What was more shocking is that they were pretty much all full - and winter has just started.

We eventually found a decent one - and we got what was pretty much the last empty nursing home bed in that borough. 

The thought of ending your days in some of those places and paying £1k a week for the privilege was depressing. I just hope by the time I reach that state they have legalised euthansia. And the lack of available beds even now was shocking.

Edited by MARTINX9
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