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so, is renting:

A...dead money?

B...stops one "getting on with ones life"?

C...for losers?

this was the thrust of some posters arguments.

It's fairly obvious as a casual observer on this site that renting is far too touchy of a subject. It does have major downsides boys and girls and the lengths people go to, to skirt over it are pretty extreme.

Like I said I wouldn't dream to feel I have bragging rights over someone living in a depreciating pile of bricks whilst living at the behest of someone else.

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Answer: it depends on your personal circumstances. There are no absolutes IMO.

My argument is that for low-mid range, entry level FTB type homes, renting can be expensive compared to buying as shown in my posts above, they're your typical FTB places in typical areas of the UK.

I understand that the further you go up the scale, renting seems more "affordable", a £1.5m house in Northamptonshire doesn't fetch 10x the rent of a £150k house.

I also understand that some on here have wangled great deals on medium-larger properties but it's wrong to use them as typical of the market as a whole.

sure, but you dont start from white space.

You need to put your head somewhere at night, and it is a rare FTB now that can get the deposit, the job and the prospects that make buying even possible...in spite of low rates,schemes...It appears that Scams are the way forward (as per my acquaintance who is now in deep dodoo).

If you cant get a deposit, you have no Rich parents, you have little choice but to stay at home with mum, or rent...and even renting they demand that you are fully creditworthy.

And even if you have your deposit, its 50% likely you WONT get a mortgage.

The problem remains, houses are too expensive.....even in these low rate conditions.

Something has gotta give....and it aint salary rises for the masses.

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It's fairly obvious as a casual observer on this site that renting is far too touchy of a subject. It does have major downsides boys and girls and the lengths people go to, to skirt over it are pretty extreme.

Like I said I wouldn't dream to feel I have bragging rights over someone living in a depreciating pile of bricks whilst living at the behest of someone else.

thats what you said up thread.

all three of those.

My point is that the far left or right of the debate has supported at both ends...

As others have pointed out, its individual...thats why banks say they make individual loans, for individual circumstances.

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That's what I love about HPC: people taking the huff when a post that doesn't match their personal situation comes along.

No-one ever suggested templates, so stop being silly. This thread was a debate about when people would buy and why.

We all find ourselves in different circumstances. In your case, it sounds like you are fooked. :)

My post was to correct your incorrect assumption/failed insult that I "needed to retrain" because I posted properties in a couple of places to substantiate an argument, and somehow those examples applied to my circumstances. Don't feel down though, because I am genuinely flattered that you feel familiar enough with my financial circumstances to comment on them, as misguided as they are.

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You need to put your head somewhere at night, and it is a rare FTB now that can get the deposit

I'd agree with that, it's a bit like high interest rates on loans for those on low incomes, it's a vicious circle. How people starting out today manage, I don't know.

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I'd agree with that, it's a bit like high interest rates on loans for those on low incomes, it's a vicious circle. How people starting out today manage, I don't know.

schemes, scams and forebearance.

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6% mortgage ? Where did you pluck that from ? You can't use "that's what they used to be", we're not in Kansas anymore Toto.

The average SVR is 4% (SOURCE).. so actually you're paying £325 interest vs £695.

Who gets SVR nowadays? the best SVRs, Lloyds and Nationwide have been closed to new customers for a while. Also, I got a couple of mortgage illustrations the other day. The sorts of lenders being recommended to me for their cheap initial fixes/trackers reverted to SVRs of 5.69% at the Leeds BS or 4.74% at the Cov BS. I would suggest that those lenders trying to attract FTBs are not those with long term generous SVRs ;)

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Who gets SVR nowadays? the best SVRs, Lloyds and Nationwide have been closed to new customers for a while. Also, I got a couple of mortgage illustrations the other day. The sorts of lenders being recommended to me for their cheap initial fixes/trackers reverted to SVRs of 5.69% at the Leeds BS or 4.74% at the Cov BS. I would suggest that those lenders trying to attract FTBs are not those with long term generous SVRs ;)

the article was 7 months old...however, the point is, that SVRs have doubled in 3 years...a time when rates have been kept really low and QE has been applied.

Anyone buying now...at the HILT, will be very vulnerable to even a slackening of the support or even a mild crisis.

This hit will be twofold...1. monthly costs rise sharply and 2...to escape, new borrowers wont be able to pay the price...so you will likely lose any equity you put in, plus some more.

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Who gets SVR nowadays?

Well, you can't get a 100% mortgage these days, many require a sizeable deposit, with that in mind First Direct have an SVR offset mortgage at 3.69% (75% LTV)

Edited by exiges
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Well, you can't get a 100% mortgage these days, many require a sizeable deposit, with that in mind First Direct have an SVR offset mortgage at 3.69% (75% LTV)

not true...buy with papa is now available

The 100% mortgage is back … if your relatives will lend a hand

Aldermore's 100% home loan is available if a family member is willing to guarantee any borrowing above 75%

(from Sept 2011) This is another sign that the bull trap is now coming to an end as "clever" financial products are released to keep equity values high.

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Don't feel down though

I never feel down. But thanks for the concern. :)

I am genuinely flattered that you feel familiar enough with my financial circumstances to comment on them, as misguided as they are.

Well, you did spend most of the thread posting your financial circumstances, so I guess that must be the source of my misguidance...

And now you are now telling me you are in fact a retired multi-millionaire, like Bruce? Oh, you. :)

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Well, you did spend most of the thread posting your financial circumstances, so I guess that must be the source of my misguidance...

I did ?!? Where ? (Genuine question).

Don't confuse what we rented with our financial circumstances. Very different things as you know.

Edited by exiges
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I was actually comparing apples-to-apples (4 bed detached, to a 4 bed detached.)

Yes, I accept at the lower end of the market, rental compared to income is a different equation. But then what loon on £20k p.a. would want to take on such a large mortgage and lose everything once interest rates rise? And that's working on the assumption that they could even afford the deposit and mortgage in the first place. Do. You. See? :)

No, you were comparing 1) the rent on a 4-bed house vs. its purchase price in reply to the example of 2) the rent on a 2-bed house vs. its purchase price. Comparing 1) to 2) is what I meant when I said an apples to oranges comparison.

Someone on £20k probably wouldn't be able to afford the £695 rent either so whether they could afford to buy is a bit of a moot point, no? However, if they were able to get HB then they could afford the rent. Oh, now I see why the rents at the lower end are less value...

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They're not very cheap to the people around here trying to buy them, when wages are only £20k pa. for a good job. What I've posted is typical of a non-London area. I'd argue North London, and surroundings are the exception, we all know this from HPI reports anyway.

That was Rugby, let's try Milton Keynes

The same house.. 2 bed terraced.

To buy: £130,000 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

To rent: £695 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-32944507.html

I think you got the links wrong but this is a sale entry for that rental house

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/15873720?search_identifier=35f2eae3f4837fa3d7c6ee7cc4470102

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I've wasted over £50K renting for the past 4 years waiting for a crash that doesn't seem any closer. So I threw the towel in and bought a 3 bed house last week. I think a crash will eventually come, it has to, but how many more £50Ks do I need to throw away before I see it?

here we have a renting is dead money post.

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here we have a renting is dead money post.

Fast forward 4 years: "I've wasted over £50K buying for the past 4 years waiting for a boom that doesn't seem any closer. So I threw the towel in and rented a 3 bed house last week. I think a boom will eventually come, it has to, but how many more £50Ks do I need to throw away before I see it?" :)

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I've wasted over £50K renting for the past 4 years waiting for a crash that doesn't seem any closer. So I threw the towel in and bought a 3 bed house last week. I think a crash will eventually come, it has to, but how many more £50Ks do I need to throw away before I see it?

Where else would you have lived over the last 4 years? Under a bridge?

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Where else would you have lived over the last 4 years? Under a bridge?

Genuine answer? OK...

The last 4 years I have spent renting cheaply. As I do so, I have no commitments, which means I can jump around finding the best work contracts. My rent in the last 4 years has been £31,200.00. The average price drop I'm seeing for 4 bed detached houses in Cheshire is a lot more than that. And those houses continue to decrease in price. In the last 4 years, due to my renting flexibility, those contracts have added another £330k (+ interest) to my "deposit", post tax. Happy now?

Ps. I'll prepare myself for the slagging that Bruce gets - as everyone on HPC hates a winner. :)

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BBC's The Daily Politics today had a bit about the fact that public sector wages are significantly higher than private sector wages (upto 20% or so) all around the UK - except in London where apparently there's no significant difference.

They were discussing whether there should be reduction in PS wages outside of London to become "more market facing".

The unions (Unison) had their say and of course he unions don't want PS wage reductions at all. The private sector employers (a solicitor's practice - so representative of the work force :lol:) had their say and of course the private sector can't compete with the PS wages being paid to help create to jobs.

Someone then said but cost of living was cheaper outside of London so can't there be lower PS wages outside of London.

Response: Ah, no, that's not true because in many areas house prices are so expensive so PS workers need the money to afford housing (no mention of private sector workers struggling to buy).

So the discussion jumped to someone asking well why not have a London weighting (completely missing the problem under discussion). It all just fizzled out. It had had gone off in a tangent heading in the opposite direction. Heading off towards profligate again which the BBC are clearly most comfortable with.

I don't think any of them raised or touched on the possibility of house prices being cheaper to solve the PS wage problem.

The programme is for the general public so one programme is unlikely to have impact on house prices but it just seemed again to reflect the unwritten? code on housing market matters in media and politics.

(relatively high PS pensions helping to aggravate the basic problem of house prices wasn't mentioned)

Edited by billybong
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Genuine answer? OK...

The last 4 years I have spent renting cheaply. As I do so, I have no commitments, which means I can jump around finding the best work contracts. My rent in the last 4 years has been £31,200.00. The average price drop I'm seeing for 4 bed detached houses in Cheshire is a lot more than that. And those houses continue to decrease in price. In the last 4 years, due to my renting flexibility, those contracts have added another £330k (+ interest) to my "deposit", post tax. Happy now?

Ps. I'll prepare myself for the slagging that Bruce gets - as everyone on HPC hates a winner. :)

Back in yer box! I wasn't asking you :P

I was asking the chap who had wasted £50K in 4 years.

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