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The issue with Bruce is I think he is not really representative of the majority on HPC. He is semi-retired and has a great big pile of cash that he has earned either via his own business or by STR'ing. So of course he has all the odds stacked in his favour when it comes to getting good rental deals and looking for the house he wants - he is under no real pressure to settle down and have kids (I guess he has already gone through that phase).

On the other hand, many FTB's don't have a big pile of cash to sit on until the time is right, they do have pressure to settle down and start a family and they also have a restricted choice based on commuting to work.

So although Bruce is correct, it is only for his specific situation. I doubt his posts would be as smug if he was a potential FTB'er with a small deposit and student loans to pay off.

His posts do grate a bit because he seems to be rubbing our noses in it a lot of the time rather than discussing a point.

what a load of twaddle.

You admit that DEBT is a problem for FTBs, apparently they all have student loans too, and it sound like you wish to encourage them to take on a burden which puts them in more debt.

The porblem is the sustainance of this market by people buying into it.

If buyers said "No thanks", in very short order they would be able to say yes please...with Bruces endorsement.....of course, rentals would fall too in such a situation.

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2) be willing to admit you're not just posting on here like LoadsaMoney to rub it in our poor FTB faces.

What could I possibly gain from boasting under an anonymous pseudonym :blink:.

I say again. I post my personal circumstances, where relevant, solely to make a lie of some of the VI claptrap being posted here and, judging from the line of VIs queueing up to take ad hominem pops at me, it would seem to be having the desired effect :D.

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clearly, buying a house at any time, whatever the price, is of little concern to one so well heeled.

Thanks for caring

Apologies, I know I do sound like a g1t but this is a hostile thread to anyone sounding out the prospect that the house price crash predicted so far is not yet coming.

I just took offence to someone doling out smugness, who as it turns out is in need of a house price crash greater than I am.

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Absolutely agree with what you are saying - my position is pretty exceptional. But..so are the ones you give above.

You are quoting an area of the country where purchase prices are very cheap; round here, in North London,

They're not very cheap to the people around here trying to buy them, when wages are only £20k pa. for a good job. What I've posted is typical of a non-London area. I'd argue North London, and surroundings are the exception, we all know this from HPI reports anyway.

That was Rugby, let's try Milton Keynes

The same house.. 2 bed terraced.

To buy: £130,000 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

To rent: £695 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-32944507.html

Edited by exiges
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What could I possibly gain from boasting under an anonymous pseudonym :blink:.

I say again. I post my personal circumstances, where relevant, solely to make a lie of some of the VI claptrap being posted here and, judging from the line of VIs queueing up to take ad hominem pops at me, it would seem to be having the desired effect :D.

All you've proved is that renting is financially better in your situation. Can you do the same for a prospective FTB with say a 10% deposit?

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What could I possibly gain from boasting under an anonymous pseudonym :blink:.

I say again. I post my personal circumstances, where relevant, solely to make a lie of some of the VI claptrap being posted here and, judging from the line of VIs queueing up to take ad hominem pops at me, it would seem to be having the desired effect :D.

One of the things I don't understand about HPC is the eagerness to throw the 'VI' label around, in a way that suggests it's analagous to 'leper'.

Surely everyone who visits a site like this has a vested interest in house prices? Whether them going up, staying the same, providing opportunities, justifying past decisions...

The forum becomes panto when every opposing view is met by "you're a VI", "oh no I'm not", "oh, yes..."

Surely what people actually mean is that the person has non-disclosed vested interests? In which case I find it ludicrous the idea that estate agents or others will appreciably impact their transaction levels by posting on a site like this in circular arguments with entrenched positions.

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What could I possibly gain from boasting under an anonymous pseudonym :blink:.

I say again. I post my personal circumstances, where relevant, solely to make a lie of some of the VI claptrap being posted here and, judging from the line of VIs queueing up to take ad hominem pops at me, it would seem to be having the desired effect :D.

Are you a hpc extremists who sees anyone other than renters as the enemy?

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Apologies, I know I do sound like a g1t but this is a hostile thread to anyone sounding out the prospect that the house price crash predicted so far is not yet coming.

I just took offence to someone doling out smugness, who as it turns out is in need of a house price crash greater than I am.

He/she was taking the pi$$. You don't have a lot of money kid, sorry.

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One of the things I don't understand about HPC is the eagerness to throw the 'VI' label around, in a way that suggests it's analagous to 'leper'.

Surely everyone who visits a site like this has a vested interest in house prices? Whether them going up, staying the same, providing opportunities, justifying past decisions...

The forum becomes panto when every opposing view is met by "you're a VI", "oh no I'm not", "oh, yes..."

Surely what people actually mean is that the person has non-disclosed vested interests? In which case I find it ludicrous the idea that estate agents or others will appreciably impact their transaction levels by posting on a site like this in circular arguments with entrenched positions.

When I use the term VI, I mean commercial vested interest, ie those who make their living out of the housing market.

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All you've proved is that renting is financially better in your situation. Can you do the same for a prospective FTB with say a 10% deposit?

depends...on where he got the deposit, the price of the place and its spec, his job, his plans for family and above all, what is going to happen to the Worlds financial situation.

I would say, if money is easily come by and the loan is a safe multiple, then yes, buy....

But MOST are not buying in that situation.

I read that 50% dont even meet criteria........is this situation going to improve? ( i have an acquaintance who took out a LIAR LOAN recently....they are really suffering as the girl is currently working in a place under Administration...two months after she moved)

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They're not very cheap to the people around here trying to buy them, when wages are only £20k pa. for a good job. What I've posted is typical of a non-London area. I'd argue North London, and surroundings are the exception, we all know this from HPI reports anyway.

That was Rugby, let's try Milton Keynes

The same house.. 2 bed terraced.

To buy: £130,000 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

To rent: £695 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-32944507.html

Mate of mine lives in Furzton, so I know the area.

Plenty of detached houses for rent at £1250 or so. And plenty for sale at £400k+, even £700k or so.

So your point about only being on £20k p.a. doesn't make any difference. People simply commute to London for better wages. My mates been doing just that for the last 30 years.

EDIT: You should retrain. :)

Edited by Nomadd
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Mate of mine lives in Furzton, so I know the area.

Plenty of detached houses for rent at £1250 or so. And plenty for sale at £400k+, even 700k or so.

So your point about only being on £20k p.a. doesn't seem to be holding much water. People simply commute to London for better wages. My mates been doing just that for the last 30 years.

But you're comparing apples to oranges or rather, detached houses to 2 bed terraces / flats. Compared to the purchase price, that £1250 rent seems a lot better value than the 2 bed house at £695, no?

Do. You. See?

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They're not very cheap to the people around here trying to buy them, when wages are only £20k pa. for a good job. What I've posted is typical of a non-London area. I'd argue North London, and surroundings are the exception, we all know this from HPI reports anyway.

That was Rugby, let's try Milton Keynes

The same house.. 2 bed terraced.

To buy: £130,000 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

To rent: £695 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-32944507.html

Lets take a FTB example for that place then:

£130,000 - that's a 25% deposit of £32,500. (Don't forget, 10 years or so ago, that deposit would have pretty much have BOUGHT a place, but never mind).

So, that only leaves a mortgage of £97,500. With a 6% mortgage, you could get an IO mortgage for only £487 / month.

Is that cheaper than a £695 / month hassle-free, all-repairs-paid for, all fixtures & fittings paid for / repaired free?

I don't think so.

Add in bits like:

- Mortgage aarrangement fees;

- Moving house i.e. selling / buying a new place,

- The very real risks of depreciation

- "Home improvement" costs...

Let alone the lost interest on the £32,500 (with say 3% net, that's £81 / month...)

Then renting is starting to look more and more attractive

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But you're comparing apples to oranges or rather, detached houses to 2 bed terraces / flats. Compared to the purchase price, that £1250 rent seems a lot better value than the 2 bed house at £695, no?

Do. You. See?

I was actually comparing apples-to-apples (4 bed detached, to a 4 bed detached.)

Yes, I accept at the lower end of the market, rental compared to income is a different equation. But then what loon on £20k p.a. would want to take on such a large mortgage and lose everything once interest rates rise? And that's working on the assumption that they could even afford the deposit and mortgage in the first place. Do. You. See? :)

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No need, I'm doing OK thanks. But I'm not going to make the mistake of using my personal circumstances as a template to fit everyone else looking for a home.

so, is renting:

A...dead money?

B...stops one "getting on with ones life"?

C...for losers?

this was the thrust of some posters arguments.

In the same way as Brucee may take a view, then the other end of the spectrum is also true.

What it shouldnt be down to is the whim of a thieving banker, and a tax break for his partner in crime, the Borrow to Let Landlord.

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So, that only leaves a mortgage of £97,500. With a 6% mortgage, you could get an IO mortgage for only £487 / month.

6% mortgage ? Where did you pluck that from ? You can't use "that's what they used to be", we're not in Kansas anymore Toto.

The average SVR is 4% (SOURCE).. so actually you're paying £325 interest vs £695.

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No need, I'm doing OK thanks. But I'm not going to make the mistake of using my personal circumstances as a template to fit everyone else looking for a home.

That's what I love about HPC: people taking the huff when a post that doesn't match their personal situation comes along.

No-one ever suggested templates, so stop being silly. This thread was a debate about when people would buy and why.

We all find ourselves in different circumstances. In your case, it sounds like you are fooked. :)

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6% mortgage ? Where did you pluck that from ? You can't use "that's what they used to be", we're not in Kansas anymore Toto.

The average SVR is 4% (SOURCE).. so actually you're paying £325 interest vs £695.

didnt that used to be 2%...a doubling in 3 years?

Oh yes...it is...from the same source

The average standard variable rate is now 3.48pc above the base rate, compared with 1.95pc in September 2008, Which? said.

Edited by Bloo Loo
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6% mortgage ? Where did you pluck that from ? You can't use "that's what they used to be", we're not in Kansas anymore Toto.

The average SVR is 4% (SOURCE).. so actually you're paying £325 interest vs £695.

4% for the entire mortgage duration - the next 25 years? Which bit of SVR do you not understand?

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so, is renting:

A...dead money?

B...stops one "getting on with ones life"?

C...for losers?

Answer: it depends on your personal circumstances. There are no absolutes IMO.

My argument is that for low-mid range, entry level FTB type homes, renting can be expensive compared to buying as shown in my posts above, they're your typical FTB places in typical areas of the UK.

I understand that the further you go up the scale, renting seems more "affordable", a £1.5m house in Northamptonshire doesn't fetch 10x the rent of a £150k house.

I also understand that some on here have wangled great deals on medium-larger properties but it's wrong to use them as typical of the market as a whole.

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Answer: it depends on your personal circumstances. There are no absolutes IMO.

My argument is that for low-mid range, entry level FTB type homes, renting can be expensive compared to buying as shown in my posts above, they're your typical FTB places in typical areas of the UK.

I understand that the further you go up the scale, renting seems more "affordable", a £1.5m house in Northamptonshire doesn't fetch 10x the rent of a £150k house.

I also understand that some on here have wangled great deals on medium-larger properties but it's wrong to use them as typical of the market as a whole.

Agreed.

Maybe time to sell the Exiges, my friend. Could get a good deposit from them. :)

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