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Yes I saw the times one last night. Ouch, very bleak indeed.

He doesn't seem to appreciate that humanity has faced such crises before and found a way through it. We ran out of firewood nce upon a time, for example, but we're still going strong in the UK. We need to build a lot nuclear power stations soon, this is one way in which I am very jealous of the French...

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Nice article from The Times, they have run a few smart articles on energy recently. Someone high-up in newspaper editor land has woken up to the dire perfect storm of peak oil (and energy in general), failing agriculture productivity, unsustainability of financial systems, population growth and climate change.

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Is this a wind-up? Economists being in two minds? Running out of oil? Human ingenuity running out?

Look, are we running out of stupidity? Or selfishness? Or complacency? The world will be an interesting place for some time to come.

Are we civilized? Look under your nose. Adults in the industrialised, advanced world are the cause of 2/3rds of the violent deaths suffered by their own children. Civilised? Or just better hypocrites? <_<

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In was also interesting that the same issue has an article on...

SLEBS: Selfish, Lascivious... etc. wanna-be Celebrities.

These people are trash, without the excuse of being poor, and think the only meaning

in life is being famous.

They will be DESTROYED by the coming recession- and that is one of the few good things

that can be said for economic hard times.

No wonder human inventiveness is slowing, as selfishness and exaggerated materialism take over

Heard a funny quote on TV the other day, but can't remember who it was. The guy was asked how he felt about the transfer of one football player (from his home team) to a rival team.

He replied, "I don't really have much time for the game nowadays. To be honest, I'm bored of watching millionaires playing football in their spare time".

LOL.

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Yes I saw the times one last night. Ouch, very bleak indeed.

He doesn't seem to appreciate that humanity has faced such crises before and found a way through it. We ran out of firewood nce upon a time, for example, but we're still going strong in the UK. We need to build a lot nuclear power stations soon, this is one way in which I am very jealous of the French...

so we are allowed to build nuclear power stations but Iran isnt .

we are allowed to invade sovereign countries but no one else is .

thats called colonialism .

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Heard a funny quote on TV the other day, but can't remember who it was. The guy was asked how he felt about the transfer of one football player (from his home team) to a rival team.

He replied, "I don't really have much time for the game nowadays. To be honest, I'm bored of watching millionaires playing football in their spare time".

Yes. I fail to see the link or interest in a 'local' team where a team of foreigners in say a Chelsea strip play another team of foreigners in say a Manchester strip. Why not cut out the football and just compare the amounts of money the each side has at its disposal. The side with the most money wins. In fact why not stick all the financial data in a computer and link the results to the stock market and just celebrate money?

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so we are allowed to build nuclear power stations but Iran isnt .

we are allowed to invade sovereign countries but no one else is .

thats called colonialism .

I love the smell of imperialism in the morning.

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"No wonder human inventiveness is slowing, as selfishness and exaggerated materialism take over" I thought to myself after spending all day in the thankless task of dealing derivatives on the New York Stock Exchange. All this materialism disgusts me. It disgusts me so much that I suggest everyone buys as much gold as they can get their hands on.

Edited by unamerican

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And its largely nonsense.

The reserves of coal are behind much of industrial might.

Oil in economic history is relatively recent - the Motel T Ford, and basically power automobiles, while coal and gas etc... power everything else.

In fact the only thing really special about oil is that it currently provides the only form of automotive power. Thats it. If we had efficent (buy powerpods at garages like petrol) electric power demand for gasoline would drop off dramatically within a decade.

There do exist technologies - that can convert gas and coal to petrol automotive power.

The US has 2000 years worth of coal before running into problems! Its very easy to dismiss all the doom mongering as not being quite correct. It would be worrying if just oil had trebled in price, but nearly anything has trebled in price, steel, concrete, glass - you name it.

The main reason for this is the theft of peoples savings through real world inflation, as with houseprices.

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You cynical bunch!

I am a Trekker and I have complete faith in Mankind to progress and move forward. Now, I am pretty close to perfecting my cold fusion machine so no more worrying you people! Everything is going to be just fine.

The main reason for this is the theft of peoples savings through real world inflation, as with houseprices.

This comment made me thinking whether future generations will look back on HPs, and how Governments have removed HPs from inflation figures, much in the same way as we look back on 1920s film footage of Germans paying several million Marks for a loaf of bread and people seeing their entire Life savings vanish due to 'hidden' but obvious inflation.

I love the smell of imperialism in the morning.

You REALLY do not want Iran getting the bomb. They have been the main sponsors of terrorism for the past 25 years.

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You REALLY do not want Iran getting the bomb. They have been the main sponsors of terrorism for the past 25 years.
Exactly, it's very scary. What to do about it I don't know, but I can see air strikes occurring rather than a full-on invasion.

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I started off thinking "ya-hey! further vindication by the mainstream press! Now who can I send the link to with a yaa-boo-sucks?"

But around the time I got to the "foraging for insects in the back garden" bit I started to feel much like the poor buggers that I constantly warn about the coming recession do when they are faced with my impeccable bearish logic...

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Guest growl

nine page mega-bear article in the Sunday Times Magazine:

Towards the end I started to wonder whether I had mistakenly clicked onto a nut armagedon end of times site. I do frequent them for a larf, so I kept checking the title bar. :blink:

Anyhow, where I live there is plenty of rabbits and we already keep guns. All I need now is a solid fuel aga. The water bit is a bit of a worry though. I leave my watering can outside, and it has taken a month and a half to fill up from the drops that pour off the roof when it rains.

I don't believe we would be back to the stone age though. Too many of us simply know more than they did, and hopefully we would pass on the knowlege to the sheep.

Or would we, maybe the Information Revolution is really about how we keep it to ourselves? :o

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Guest growl

One word: drainpipe.

:D

Yeh...exactly. There are lots of ways of being self sufficient. You can actually get proper water tanks that catch the rain properly. They would just have to get all the people in the know into the local colleges, and bring back some proper lessons in school.

I'm amazed that no-one I know of my age group and younger outside of my village freinds, that don't know the basics. I got taught how to cook and sew at school, and wood work and metal work. I got taught by my parents and grandparents how to clean poultry and fish when they still have the heads, inards and feathers on. I can make my own clothes.

The only thing I couldn't do to survive was shoot a rabbit and my husband taught me how to do that.

I'm being serious folks.

They make programs on telly and sell cookery books for thousands, about how to do this. Yet they don't teach these fundamental lessons in school.

As for the city people. Heck you can walk into or cycle into the country. Take a tent, an air rifle, some bags and come back with mushrooms, fruit and game. You can grow the rest in a little garden.

I believe we would adapt. Sure their would be casualties. People that couldn't cope.

For me what is scary are the ones who would become desperate. Lawlesness. Or even worse war that reached our borders. :ph34r:

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If you think collapse is likely in your lifetime.

Move to a sparsely populated country.

Preferably one with a lot of sea between it and the next country.

Edit.

For me, one that grows both grapes and tobacco.

Edited by Mushroom

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Maybe?

You selling it?

I'd love to see the EA's eulogy for that.

"Charming, individual piece of real estate, uniquely placed to provide a buyer of imagination the opportunity to live the good life. Not overlooked. Near(ish) to all main services".

"Interest is sure to be high, early viewing recommended".

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Guest growl

My grandparents taught me everything from growing fruit to making whisky.

Are talking moonshine there. Or proper whiskey?

We do a lot of fruit, wild plant and vegetable wines. Taste like liqures and blow your head off. My great Uncle Paddy used to bring over potchin from Ireland...homemade. Lethal stuff. The smell was enough.

But hey if times got hard a little lubrication wouldn't go amiss

:P

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I an advocate for stocking up on the basics for a rainy day. Things like food a light source (candles / torches with lots of batteries) and a gas bottle cooker. Think of it as insurance.

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Yeh...exactly. There are lots of ways of being self sufficient. You can actually get proper water tanks that catch the rain properly. They would just have to get all the people in the know into the local colleges, and bring back some proper lessons in school.

etc

Wha?

Have you never heard of Ray Mears?

I suggest his DVD box-set for Christmas.

The extended 'directors cut' shows how to cope with:

"Survival in the city"

"dodging the 'circle of troops' after an incident - such as an outbreak of "bird flu" (where you are cut off from the rest of the country)

Using rubbish bins as a form of 'outside' communication when they flick the switch off the phone networks!

Catching and skinning sewer rats for delicious bush-style rat-a-toile(t)

Mears says

"Bushcraft liberates and empowers. It re-acquaints man with nature and his roots and provides an escape from the shackles of modern life. Bushcraft is about being practical and resourceful."

I can just see 'the masses' strolling out of the cities armed with their all powerfull brainwashed knowledge of dirty dens last antics or what Vera said to whom on the Wednesday edition of Corrie in June 1971 :P

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"Survival in the city"

"dodging the 'circle of troops' after an incident - such as an outbreak of "bird flu" (where you are cut off from the rest of the country)

Using rubbish bins as a form of 'outside' communication when they flick the switch off the phone networks!

Catching and skinning sewer rats for delicious bush-style rat-a-toile(t)

so to sum up...post amaggedon we will be living in and banging on wheelie bins while living off dead rats.?

not much of a change then - in leeds.....!!!

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You selling it?

I'd love to see the EA's eulogy for that.

"Charming, individual piece of real estate, uniquely placed to provide a buyer of imagination the opportunity to live the good life. Not overlooked. Near(ish) to all main services".

"Interest is sure to be high, early viewing recommended".

'Would suit young professional survivalists'

or for the ads in the rental market ' No DHSS ( for anyone, anymore)'

Shouldn't the Ray Mears dvd set come with some kind of solar powered dvd player ?

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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Exactly, it's very scary. What to do about it I don't know, but I can see air strikes occurring rather than a full-on invasion.

Yes, I don't know why anyone is concerned about this. First sign of the Iranians developing an actual nuclear capability and the Israelis will nip in and reduce it to dust. They are not going to live (literally) with a nuclear capable neighbour.

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My grandparents taught me everything from growing fruit to making whisky. But I just ordered this book today:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1...6169762-8690018

This a classic manual, recently updated

New Complete Self-sufficiency: The Classic Guide for Realists and Dreamers

John Seymour, Will Sutherland (Preface), E.F. Schumacher (Foreword)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...6162738-2865210

Its sad that there's not been a more recent Whole Earth Catalogue that covers most of this stuff (i've got it & its great). Last issue I knew of was the Millennium edition circa 1995.

Just had a bit of a shock finding out the 'Whole Earth Review' is not going anymore, sad death of a founder of alternative e-culture & greenery. It may be combined with Utne reader http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/000338.html

Millennium Whole Earth Catalogue Howard Rheingold (Editor) http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...6162738-2865210

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Yes. I fail to see the link or interest in a 'local' team where a team of foreigners in say a Chelsea strip play another team of foreigners in say a Manchester strip. Why not cut out the football and just compare the amounts of money the each side has at its disposal. The side with the most money wins. In fact why not stick all the financial data in a computer and link the results to the stock market and just celebrate money?

A thorough academic research project a few years (I can't be bothered to find a link, sorry) found that there is a 90% correlation between a football club's income and results so you've pretty much got this situation already. Certainly the evidence from Scotland support this.

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Front page picture of Trafalgar Square in ruins and nine page mega-bear article in the Sunday Times

Bears are on the ascendant. Their sentiment brims with confidence. The media and the internet have latched onto the emerging theme with relish. They know what sells. The herd, no longer docile, is turning. The stage is set. The air buzzes with excitement. For some it will be a moment to savour. For others it will be a sweet moment of hubris. Is this what they wanted? Yes, the scream. But then what?

And what can we expect of the fate of the masses? For those who are inclined, will they retrench into their beliefs? What of the followers of fatalism, nihilism or narcissism? Will their consumption eat itself? Is their reality on the wane? Does purgatory await those who are caught in between? Will the bulls be surprised when they discover that their hooves have no grip?

The establishment and God have seen it all before. Are they aloof from such concerns? Is this the aspiration of the contrarian?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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