Sledgehead Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So once you've paid off your student loan and got on the property ladder, hold up on that pension: the government will want a further £60k first to pay for your elderly care. Still, it all looks like good news for the financial services sector, as we'll all be legally required to take out insurance policies / investment vehicles designed to pay the £60k when needed. And as these policies will be sold coercively, you can be sure they'll be real good value ... Elderly may be told to pay £60,000 for care This bit will appeal particularly to members : A national campaign will also “nudge” individuals to prepare for elderly support costs through pension schemes or through buying a home which can be used later to pay care bills. The last lot tacitly forced the country into viewing homes as investments. This lot want to overtly sponsor the idea. It's just face palming all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 the pertinent question (for me anyway) is this - when will this law come into play, for what generation? will they wait for the boomers to retire before hitting following generations with it, or will it specifically initially hit the boomers? If the latter, then is is just a big boomer tyax, if the former then it is another cost to be born for the post boomer generations exclusively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 we already pay it any way...its just they spent it all on Public sector expenditures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This is effectively another tax. An extension of National insurance. There is a limit to how much tax I am willing to pay. That limit has been breached some time ago and I will happily leave this hell hole of country at the first decent opportunity. I would rather die at 65 than be force to give any investment firm my money. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) There is an increasing incentive to just be a "straw man" in this country, rented home. no investments assets and so on. I think I'd rather just die than go into a care home. Imagine many of our ancestors just did that when they could no longer look after themselves. On the other hand, just have lots of kids. Edited January 16, 2012 by "Steed" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This is effectively another tax. An extension of National insurance. There is a limit to how much tax I am willing to pay. That limit has been breached some time ago and I will happily leave this hell hole of country at the first decent opportunity. I would rather die at 65 than be force to give any investment firm my money. :angry: It isn't a tax, quite the reverse. People are going to have to pay more for their own services, reducing the burden on the taxpayer who would have to pay otherwise. Mind you, it all seems to me like a bit of a fiddle just as the fire in Rome starts to take hold. Elderly care is likely to become too expensive for the state before long, and there won't be any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 £60k now or in 30 years time? The govt is looking to exit the ponzi scheme it created but the problem is people don't have this sort of money, if we ever do get HPC here £60k will wipe out most peoples equity. Born with nothing and your gonna leave with nothing. Still I'm sure some clever financial types will help fleece some of that £60k from you in fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Still I'm sure some clever financial types will help fleece some of that £60k from you in fees. Well to get £60k in care, they will want millions in fee's, for sticking a pin in the FT daily (or however they pick shares, investments these days). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkwell Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wouldn't it be cheaper to post everyone a dirty syringe and a voucher for Dignitas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 There is an increasing incentive to just be a "straw man" in this country, rented home. no investments assets and so on. I think I'd rather just die than go into a care home. Imagine many of our ancestors just did that when they could no longer look after themselves. On the other hand, just have lots of kids. ...what's wrong with that....life has always been PAYG ...most peoples wealth is tied up in their property the value was created from thin air, they did not work for the value it is today, they are lucky that the value did increase for nothing so using that money they otherwise would not have had to pay for quality care if required in old age is a good thing is it not....why expect others to pay for it, the younger generation who many will never be in a position to buy a home or pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wouldn't it be cheaper to post everyone a dirty syringe and a voucher for Dignitas? There's a reason why changes in the laws on assisted suicide are now being openly discussed and debated after the topic being taboo for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) we already pay it any way...its just they spent it all on Public sector expenditures. to the arms manufacturers, pharma cos, IT salesmen, inflated consultants wages, private auditors, private bankers, investment managers, insurance companies, actuaries and on and on. And they still want more............ Cross-party talks to reach a consensus on care funding are due to begin this week. Single party state - The new democracy. Done up like a kipper whilst being told to buy the Queen a new yacht for her wedding anniversary. They've becoming completely shameless in their theft. Edited January 16, 2012 by Red Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This is what happens when the NHS budget is blown on wages, bonuses, pensions and PFI instead of providing services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PricedOutNative Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 A number of people I know have come to this conclusion. "Heroic couple X had a champagne breakfast before setting off for the clinic etc…" Slowly the media is making it more acceptable There's a reason why changes in the laws on assisted suicide are now being openly discussed and debated after the topic being taboo for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 There is an increasing incentive to just be a "straw man" in this country, rented home. no investments assets and so on. I think I'd rather just die than go into a care home. Imagine many of our ancestors just did that when they could no longer look after themselves. On the other hand, just have lots of kids. Me too, but each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) It isn't a tax, quite the reverse. People are going to have to pay more for their own services, reducing the burden on the taxpayer who would have to pay otherwise. Mind you, it all seems to me like a bit of a fiddle just as the fire in Rome starts to take hold. Elderly care is likely to become too expensive for the state before long, and there won't be any. Any money that is taken from me, by law, is a tax. Here is a list of taxes I know I pay now, but there are problem many more hidden ones: Income Tax. NI Company NI VAT Road Tax Insurance Tax Fuel Tax Airport Tax Congestion Charge ( seldom/optional ) Council Car parking charges Council Tax TV License fee ( optional in some cases ) Savings tax Stamp duty Business Rates Tax ( business rates effectively passed onto customers, i.e. you and me ) Duty on Booze Duty on Fags ( thought I'm a non smoker, but only because I hate paying tax ) Capital gains inheritance It's ALL TAX and I'm sick of it. A flat 20% of peoples income should be enough for government to build roads, collect bins etc, I reckon at the end of the day you loose about 70% of your income to tax. F**K if I'll be taxed to give my money to some city wide boy to loose it all. Looking at the above list you can avoid tax if: You don't work, you don't buy anything, you don't go anywhere, you don't heat anything or use electricity, you dont drink or smoke, you have no inheritance and no one ever gives you money....i.e. you are dead. Edited January 16, 2012 by TheCountOfNowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 the pertinent question (for me anyway) is this - when will this law come into play, for what generation? will they wait for the boomers to retire before hitting following generations with it, or will it specifically initially hit the boomers? If the latter, then is is just a big boomer tyax, if the former then it is another cost to be born for the post boomer generations exclusively +1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think many of you are missing this point: Currently, there is no limit on the costs that individuals can incur for elderly care and an estimated 20,000 people are forced to sell their homes to pay for residential places each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 we already pay it any way...its just they spent it all on Public sector expenditures. Indeed we already do pay it. Will we be paying lower rates of Income tax and National Insurance when this scheme is introduced? Or will that money just end up being used for some other hair-brained scheme / war / expense claim by Dave and his Westminster chums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We’re all in this together Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hardly a revelation. First you are shackled to a lifetime of debt, then you have to sell your house to pay for care. In each case the money flows from the poor (you and me, buddy, in case you thought different) to the rich. That's why they are rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hardly a revelation. First you are shackled to a lifetime of debt, then you have to sell your house to pay for care. In each case the money flows from the poor (you and me, buddy, in case you thought different) to the rich. That's why they are rich. ...the truly rich are the healthy.....does not matter how rich you are, if you don't have your health you are not wealthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Any money that is taken from me, by law, is a tax. Here is a list of taxes I know I pay now, but there are problem many more hidden ones: Income Tax. NI Company NI VAT Road Tax Insurance Tax Fuel Tax Airport Tax Congestion Charge ( seldom/optional ) Council Car parking charges Council Tax TV License fee ( optional in some cases ) Savings tax Stamp duty Business Rates Tax ( business rates effectively passed onto customers, i.e. you and me ) Duty on Booze Duty on Fags ( thought I'm a non smoker, but only because I hate paying tax ) Capital gains inheritance It's ALL TAX and I'm sick of it. A flat 20% of peoples income should be enough for government to build roads, collect bins etc, I reckon at the end of the day you loose about 70% of your income to tax. F**K if I'll be taxed to give my money to some city wide boy to loose it all. Looking at the above list you can avoid tax if: You don't work, you don't buy anything, you don't go anywhere, you don't heat anything or use electricity, you dont drink or smoke, you have no inheritance and no one ever gives you money....i.e. you are dead. So much of that tax is used for elderly care and their income. If we abandoned all but emergency care for the elderly by the state, taxes could be a lot lower. Should we do that? There are some pretty tough choices to be made with our ageing population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) So much of that tax is used for elderly care and their income. If we abandoned all but emergency care for the elderly by the state, taxes could be a lot lower. Should we do that? There are some pretty tough choices to be made with our ageing population. We seem to have abandoned natural selection and death in favour of making infertile people pregnant, fixing breast implants that should be their own responsibility, keeping sick people alive, idiots in jobs etc etc etc and worse to keep old people alive an extra 10 years at vast expense...at which point they die anyway. They have effectively created one section of society that cannot live because they have no money and another that cannot live because they are old and are using all the money to stay alive, for what aim ? Life is hard and then you die, is it worthwhile for society to prolong the inevitable for a select few at the expense of everyone else. Death is a touchy subject for many, but we all die. Your parents will die, your friends, your family, giving them an extra 5 years is a great thing to be able to do, but stopping the young from affording a family is not, stopping society looking after there own is not ncie, forcing mothers out to work to help pay for massive mortgages and high cost of living is not....take your pick. This country is messed up, and needs a real change. Edited January 16, 2012 by TheCountOfNowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazap Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's ALL TAX and I'm sick of it. A flat 20% of peoples income should be enough for government to build roads, collect bins etc, I reckon at the end of the day you loose about 70% of your income to tax. I quite like the flat income tax idea (assuming the numbers add up) just on the basis of simplicity. But as to the rest of the debate, more people are net winners from the treasury than losers. So unless you are particularly wealthy you actually get more back than you put in. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15843746 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I quite like the flat income tax idea (assuming the numbers add up) just on the basis of simplicity. But as to the rest of the debate, more people are net winners from the treasury than losers. So unless you are particularly wealthy you actually get more back than you put in. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15843746 The state propoganda web-site says you are not actually taxed and you believe it...you have much to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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