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Youth Disenfranchised Because


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It's more because the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.Think these council CEOs on 250,000 a year really earn their wages?

It's not about left vs right anymore as anyone can see the blindingly obvious , wealth distribution is out of whack.CEOs get too much , politicians get too much and houses are too expensive.

It is, and in my view always has been, about the "haves" and the "have nots". The establishment exists for the benefit of of the first group and works well when the second group is given just enough of the national cake to encourage them to buy in to the system and not to riot. All the time the true wealth of the "haves" is discreetly hidden.

Left or right, christian or muslim, male or female, northerner or southerner is all irrelevant; just a tried and tested tactic to divide and rule.

The problem today may be that the "haves" have got just too greedy and too arrogant in flaunting their wealth. The ubiquity of the media makes it much easier for all the "have nots" to see just how royally they are being screwed.

Cue more unrest, more riots and in reaction further progression down the road to a facist corporate state.

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Absolute material wealth isn't the only kind of wealth.

Yes, I can listen to my ipod in my centrally heated flat but my family will always be under the thumb of a landlord and the threat of eviction. I live in a world where a garden is a luxury only slightly more affordable than having my wife actually care for our children.

Meanwhile I get to watch the rich getting richer off the back of my hard work, whilst any chance of social advancement slowly slips away.

No, the young should be rioting. The more interesting question is why they aren't.

And the farmer is under the threat of his crops failing and starving to death which would you prefer.

The macro picture is out of all of our control so the real question is what are YOU going to do to increase your social advancement. Even if houses quarter in price due to the total destruction of the welfare system if you have spent the last 5 years sitting in the room playing xbox you are still going to be skint and living at the bottom of the pile.

There are people on here moaning that all they can save is 600 bucks a month, what do you expect to be able to save?

All I hear is people moaning about the south east, why not move?

P.s. I'm popping out for a few hrs to enjoy the sun, hope to pick this up again later as I think this thread has legs.

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And the farmer is under the threat of his crops failing and starving to death which would you prefer.

The macro picture is out of all of our control so the real question is what are YOU going to do to increase your social advancement. Even if houses quarter in price due to the total destruction of the welfare system if you have spent the last 5 years sitting in the room playing xbox you are still going to be skint and living at the bottom of the pile.

There are people on here moaning that all they can save is 600 bucks a month, what do you expect to be able to save?

All I hear is people moaning about the south east, why not move?

P.s. I'm popping out for a few hrs to enjoy the sun, hope to pick this up again later as I think this thread has legs.

The 'macro' picture is the only one worth discussing. If I wanted some kind of emotional support group I'd go to Mumsnet.

I thought it pretty obvious I wasn't discussing my own circumstances but, just to be clear, I'm not married, have no children, and don't own an iPod or an xbox.

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And the farmer is under the threat of his crops failing and starving to death which would you prefer.

The macro picture is out of all of our control so the real question is what are YOU going to do to increase your social advancement. Even if houses quarter in price due to the total destruction of the welfare system if you have spent the last 5 years sitting in the room playing xbox you are still going to be skint and living at the bottom of the pile.

There are people on here moaning that all they can save is 600 bucks a month, what do you expect to be able to save?

All I hear is people moaning about the south east, why not move?

P.s. I'm popping out for a few hrs to enjoy the sun, hope to pick this up again later as I think this thread has legs.

From my perspective, where I sit now in the workforce I see 7-20+ years experience, taking the low paid work. So that person that picked him/herself up and got that job will still be looking at the same salary. So training, career path, possibly getting your own place, are all irrelevant. Now if you believe things are going to get better perhaps there is some hope. If you feel things will continue as they are or will get worst I think its quite possible to understand the young being disenfranchised.

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You should learn to ignore mightythargs posts as I have, because he is either a troll, a c***, or a psychopath who has zero empathy for others. Replying to trolls just feeds them, c**** should be ignored in general, and you cannot reason with a psychopath.

He might not win prizes for empathy but he is not exactly wrong. And he makes his point concisely.

So suppose you want to fix the high marginal tax faced by the low paid. You could tax them less, except there is no money for a tax cut. Or you could notice that the effective tax rate results from them being given too much money. And give them less.

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13k is the starting salary. You can learn things while you work and then try to do better for yourself. We a rapidly finding out that the current benefit system cant be paid for sitting at home on the xbox is not going to be option for much longer. Theres slot of people who would love to sit in a warm in office all day.

It isn't a great salary, but why do you think that being literate and able to use office should pay more than that?

Because in 1980 the bottom 50% of workers took home 16% of gdp a wages. In 2011 they take home slightly less than 12%. So while the economy grew and their productive output did, their share of the economic pie didn't.

Others within the system creamed off what they should have got.

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He might not win prizes for empathy but he is not exactly wrong. And he makes his point concisely.

So suppose you want to fix the high marginal tax faced by the low paid. You could tax them less, except there is no money for a tax cut. Or you could notice that the effective tax rate results from them being given too much money. And give them less.

Except the share of the economic pie going to the low paid has been continually falling for 30 years. Benefits for the young don't need to be less, they get practically bugger all as is. Its wages at the low end that need to be increased.

And before you mention that they can't be due to globalization fostered competition, yes they can, if we undertake policies to protect our economy and promote a healthy internal market. Its what most nations have done for 100's of years, its globalization that is abhorrent, not the norm that came before it.

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In my view, young people have been seriously let down by previous Labour government

Lets never forget how long they had power, and how long they had to plan for power.

Labour, decided to abandon the working class altogether. They created false degrees, to lure the hopeful into believing they a future

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Career progression. It may be the case that working in a minimum wage job means that you will not be able to afford a great deal more than you would if you were on benefits but if you work hard and get promoted then you will get wealthier over time. If you stay on benefits you are always going to be skint. Ive personally seen places in the world we're people work from dusk till Dawn on subsistence farms tending to their fields with ox drawn tools. I'm sure they would love the lifestyle of anyone in the uk. There's not much chance of moving up the ladder in this job but they did seem happy.

I didn't think people in this country realise how lucky they actually are. You might feel better if you compare your situation against people with harder life's than you than to footballers and celeb millionaires.

But I'm normally a grumpy Fu@@@r just feeling positive today. :)

The main reason the young are disenfranchised is down to your first paragraph above. Even if the young work hard and get a good paid job they still won't be able to afford to buy. Here in the SE I have a very good job but I can't buy on my street. There are teachers, people with very ordinary office jobs etc on my street. A regular street, but if you were born around or after 1980 and you are on this street you are renting and cannot buy as they start at 350K. It's the generational gap that cannot be breached that is the problem. People should stop with saying you can still get on. You can't. I've got promoted several times with good raises. I am still renting. I could buy a dump and get stuck there forever in negative equity but that's not really a choice now, is it?

Regarding the usual "you're lucky you're not in Africa" comment. The problem is the disparity between two groups - in our case young and boomer. South Africa had a big problem with disparity (black and white in their case). It caused a lot of problems. Disparity in the same country is disgusting. Using this logic you could force people into a lifestyle just above Bangladesh but it wouldn't be right.

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In my view, young people have been seriously let down by previous Labour government

Lets never forget how long they had power, and how long they had to plan for power.

Labour, decided to abandon the working class altogether. They created false degrees, to lure the hopeful into believing they a future

They have seriously been let down by our state education system...many schools are not fit for purpose, kids are exiting at 16 without adequate English or Maths to enable them to complete a CV let alone apply for a job, it is a national scandal....and why are we having to source skills from overseas? the skills and qualifications our employers need....why are we not able to educate our own to provide our own requirements?

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People should stop with saying you can still get on. You can't. I've got promoted several times with good raises. I am still renting. I could buy a dump and get stuck there forever in negative equity but that's not really a choice now, is it?

This is why they are so demotivated. If working gets you nothing why work? They can see there is no point bothering, so they don't. Fair enough.

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This is why they are so demotivated. If working gets you nothing why work? They can see there is no point bothering, so they don't. Fair enough.

Quite. They aren't on a buyer's strike any more. More a "life strike".

This is what I've always said about XFactor. People think kids are idiots, but they see life as they see it, not how they have been brainwashed to see. Kids on estates know zero people who "made it out" into a good job and home. If they watch XFactor they "know" one person who made it good. It's our equivalent of "The American Dream". Kids are not dumb. They have correctly identified that social mobility is at zero.

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He might not win prizes for empathy but he is not exactly wrong. And he makes his point concisely.

So suppose you want to fix the high marginal tax faced by the low paid. You could tax them less, except there is no money for a tax cut. Or you could notice that the effective tax rate results from them being given too much money. And give them less.

The effective tax rate ('marginal deduction rate' or 'marginal tax rate') remains the same if you cut benefits. It just distorts the band of income over which it applies.

You lose £1 in JSA/ESA/IS/IB for every £1 earned, there is an income disregard (this is £5 for a single person and has been so since 1980, when it was sufficient for a weekly travel pass).

Once that has cleared, you begin to lose housing benefit/LHA at a rate of 65p in the £1 cumulatively with council tax benefit at 20p in the £1. Depending on your level of housing benefit/LHA, council tax and JSA/ESA/IS/IB you might be losing HB at 65p in the £1, CTB at 20p in the £1 whilst you are paying 20p in the £ tax and 12p in the £1 NI.

I.e. earn £1, lose £1.17.

Altering these rates won't lead to a loss of tax revenue. People effectively taxed at nearly 100%, 100%, and even greater sums, have little/no/negative incentive to work, for sums in the range where this effective tax falls. Currently these rates of tax fall generally upon incomes ranging from £5- £300 per week (And up to £3000 per week for a few residents of maida vale).

Lose 0p per £1 earned = 0% effective tax

Lose 50p per £1 earned = 50% effective tax

Lose 100p per £1 earned = 100% effective tax

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The yoof blame the coalition, rather than Labour. Funny old world.

Oh I think lots of the youth know it's the entire system, especially the banking arm of it that are against their interests....and it's not even news now that whoever you vote for the system gets in.

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Because in 1980 the bottom 50% of workers took home 16% of gdp a wages. In 2011 they take home slightly less than 12%. So while the economy grew and their productive output did, their share of the economic pie didn't.

Others within the system creamed off what they should have got.

In 1980 you had to pay a much higher proportion of your income for rent, food, clothes, and other essentials. Let alone if you had a car, a TV or radio, a telephone, ...

That's at any level of income. Unless of course you'd escaped rent.

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In 1980 you had to pay a much higher proportion of your income for rent, food, clothes, and other essentials. Let alone if you had a car, a TV or radio, a telephone, ...

That's at any level of income. Unless of course you'd escaped rent.

Which doesn't matter a fig in terms of motivation. Absolute levels of wealth never have done, never will. Plenty of scientific studies have shown that.

What does matter is the relative amount of wealth you can acquire relative to others, and plenty of scientific studies have shown that too. And in that regard the bottom 50% are much much worse of than previous generations.

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I reckon people's expectations of life style just now are way out of whack with reality and that is mainly down to the media and television that is currently popular. If you look back 20 years the popular shows at the time showed people living in normal flats with normal lives. I.e. Only fools and horses, step toe and son, brookside etc etc. Now people seem to spend their time watching 'reality shows' where everyone is a millionaire. Only way is Essex, meet the kardasians, the hills, if you are watching that then looking at your own life it's no surprise you feel annoyed.

Regarding the x-box/celebrity/ipad obsession is a result/symptom of the bubble and the greedy, get rich quick with no effort mentality that a bubble inevitably fosters. The only thing of note here is that there is now a generation for whom the 'norm' was actually a dysfunctional bubble economy.

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That's rather a lot for a young, single person without a serious health issue ...

My electric bill (no gas) is similar and that's running a single storage heater and no hot water. Living alone/in a flat is expensive compared to shared living where you get the benefit of higher overall usage and cheaper tariff even if you use the same amount of electricity/gas overall.

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The only thing of note here is that there is now a generation for whom the 'norm' was actually a dysfunctional bubble economy.

Yes, but that generation is not in its teens and 20s, it's in its 40s. Think Kirstie Allsopp. No matter how bad their business acumen or personal financial abilities, their adult life has been one long credit-fuelled boom.

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Quite. They aren't on a buyer's strike any more. More a "life strike".

This is what I'm talking about, there is no point in going on a life strike. It's too short so you need to play the card you are dealt as they come out.

Maybe it's not as easy as our parents generation to get a house, but it is easier to do other things so you may as well make the most of what you have. I've got my fingers crossed that in the next few years the housing Market will correct and people will start to see more reward for working but I can guarantee that if you go on any kind of life strike you will become depressed and remain skint.

I can't predict what will happen in the future with careers but since leaving uni all my friends are doing significantly better than when they started work.

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This is what I'm talking about, there is no point in going on a life strike. It's too short so you need to play the card you are dealt as they come out.

Maybe it's not as easy as our parents generation to get a house, but it is easier to do other things so you may as well make the most of what you have. I've got my fingers crossed that in the next few years the housing Market will correct and people will start to see more reward for working but I can guarantee that if you go on any kind of life strike you will become depressed and remain skint.

I can't predict what will happen in the future with careers but since leaving uni all my friends are doing significantly better than when they started work.

And when did your friends leave uni? Have you tried applying for any cleaning/warehouse/catering/admin/care NMW jobs lately? They're asking for significant experience nowadays. Also, what is it easier to do for this generation of youth than previous generations?

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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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