Trampa501 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of the immigrant haters, and I appreciate the fact we now have many fine doctors, nurses, teachers etc who come from overseas; it is also the case that many migrants are far more driven and productive than the locals. But I just don't buy this message that high levels of immigration benefit the economy - apart from anything else I'm on this site because I recognise the harm that high house prices have done to the country. Independent Article George Osborne's economic strategy rests on continued high levels of immigration to Britain – in contrast to the Conservatives' policy of cutting net migration down to the "tens of thousands".The Government will find itself in the position of either having to allow continued immigration in the hundreds of thousands or jeopardising the country's economic recovery, according to its own fiscal watchdog, the Office for Budget Responsibility. Ministers will not reduce average annual immigration down to the "tens of thousands" over the course of this parliament according to the OBR's projections. Instead, net inward migration to Britain will remain at an average of 140,000 a year until 2016, it says, despite repeated promises from Conservative ministers that they will reduce immigration flows to substantially below these levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oki Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Meet the new boss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 We need fresh blood in Britain. Plus we need people to work for much less. These folk are taking over the the husbandry of our society, by design, so what difference does it make if you already have your castle and swimming pool of gold coins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Pyramid selling scams need ever increasing numbers to keep them going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concerned_money Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of the immigrant haters, and I appreciate the fact we now have many fine doctors, nurses, teachers etc who come from overseas; it is also the case that many migrants are far more driven and productive than the locals. But I just don't buy this message that high levels of immigration benefit the economy - apart from anything else I'm on this site because I recognise the harm that high house prices have done to the country. Independent Article Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those immigrant haters, BUT I am one of those who hate the farmers that bring the new cattle here. I don't appreciate the fact that foreign doctors,teachers, fruit pickers are brought here. Each position filled using overseas labour is a position lost for a Brit. They could train more doctors, but that costs money, much cheaper to import the finished product. More people = higher population density = less resources / person = shite life. optimum population for the UK circa 20million max Edited December 3, 2011 by concerned_money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) Yes they wont be able to wait to come here to enjoy our lousy weather, crumbling infrastructure, overpriced housing, overcowded transport system, low wages, high inflation and bankrupt banks. Edited December 3, 2011 by stormymonday_2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 optimum population for the UK circa 20million max How do you reckon? And outside of mass killing or deportations, what is your proposed solution? And what of all the millions of 'pureblood' Brit white trash who've haven't toiled in multiple generations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Yes they wont be able to wait to come here to enjoy our lousy weather, crumbling infrastructure, overpriced housing, overcowded transport system, low wages, high inflation and bankrupt banks. You just listed most of the reasons why I left the UK. TBH I cannot understand why anyone would want to migrate to the UK at this point, there are far better options elsewhere (yes the grass is greener elsewhere). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Yes they wont be able to wait to come here to enjoy our lousy weather, crumbling infrastructure, overpriced housing, overcowded transport system, low wages, high inflation and bankrupt banks. I see the British Tourism Board missed out when they let you slip through their employment net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papag Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 And if it all goes wrong for them there is always the benefit system currently increasing by 5% per annum whilst wages around 1% if you are lucky cant lose its great here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) Yes they wont be able to wait to come here to enjoy our lousy weather, crumbling infrastructure, overpriced housing, overcowded transport system, low wages, high inflation and bankrupt banks. You need to travel more. There are plenty of large cities around the world that are literally built on sh1t, ie they have no sewage systems. Most middle eastern cities are exactly that. Britain has plentiful fresh water, no stasi like snatch squads (yet...), no worry of civil war or serious government instability. We have civil rights, we have a reasonably good and fair judicial system, everybody is given somewhere to live and has access to health care, and everybody has the right to be educated. I challenge you to find a better place anywhere in the 3rd world, and even in a lot of the 1st world. Everybody here in the UK is part of the 1%, whether you like the moniker or not. It's just a simple fact. Edited December 3, 2011 by cashinmattress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) no worry of civil war London had a brief taste of it last summer We have civil rights, not that many any more, many have been removed or severely restricted already we have a reasonably good and fair judicial system, Only as long as you haven't stepped on the toes of anybody important everybody is given somewhere to live and has access to health care, and everybody has the right to be educated. All to very low standards unfortunately I challenge you to find a better place anywhere in the 3rd world, and even in a lot of the 1st world.Most 1st world countries are better off, IMHO the UK is sliding towards second world status.Everybody here in the UK is part of the 1%, whether you like the moniker or not. It's just a simple fact. Nope. We are all individuals, most of us have a lot more in common with the lower middle classes of most other countries than with the 'elite'. Statistics are useless as they are based on mathematical averages and aggregate figures.You need to travel more, even in places like Brazil middle classes have a better living standard than the UK these days. Edited December 3, 2011 by awake_eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) eagle, you definitely need to travel more, and probably need a hug. And students out demonstrating, even with the odd bit of thuggery (which is arguably a campaign of agent provocatuers) is not tantamount to folk storming the capitol building and executing the 'leader'. Sheesh. And I have been to Brazil, and have Brazilian friends, both there and elsewhere around the globe. There's not a whole lot of places I feel 'safe' in that country, especially in any of the major cities. Or did you not notice the murders, abductions and kidnappings, hostage taking, muggings, car jackings, gang violence, and equally thuggish trigger happy police during your tenure there? Edited December 3, 2011 by cashinmattress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blod Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Pyramid selling scams need ever increasing numbers to keep them going. +1 The only problem is that the public are beginning to become aware of the negatives of this, and it isn't just the BNP. Quite a few friends whose country of birth isn't the UK are most against further immigration. They seem to be more sensitive to this issue due to their upbringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I see the British Tourism Board missed out when they let you slip through their employment net I forgot to mention rip off privatized monopolies, a plethora of hidden or disguised taxes (airport levy, insurance tax, NIC ), a disfunctional education system and a popular culture that is as shallow as a muddy puddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogbrush Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Here's the problem; it would be nice to think you can wall yourself off from everyone else and enjoy the benefits of their lower standards of living. But it can't happen that way - nothing stays the same, and your high standard of living was only based on a temporary condition where they were willing to give stuff to you for really low rewards. Eventually they get their ideas, they build up enough wealth and don't feel like providing for you on the cheap forever. And so it all ends. Immigration is a less painful way for that process to happen. Rather than one "country" just dying in it's own uncompetitiveness, the people all mix up and smooth the process out. Of course, that leads to an averaging out of living standards, and because we personally did nothing to earn the higher standard we enjoy (much being based on the other peoples lower standards - cheap stuff and the like) there's no moral case to argue. This is tough to take because we in this country have been brought up like children, that we are entitled to a higher standard of living. If we did it entirely in isolation then there'd be an argument there but we don't; it's critically reliant on those other people making things and gaining education, and willing to sell it to us for next to nothing. So immigration is inevitable and a form of fairness. We have two choices; cry and whinge about it, or earn our way in the World. There's no third option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) eagle, you definitely need to travel moreNot only have I traveled extensively, but I have also already lived in 4 countries (by lived I don't mean short stays a few months, but rather a few years).And students out demonstrating, even with the odd bit of thuggery (which is arguably a campaign of agent provocatuers) is not tantamount to folk storming the capitol building and executing the 'leader'.I was talking about the London riots, not the student protests. Have you already forgotten about the riots?And I have been to Brazil, and have Brazilian friends, both there and elsewhere around the globe. There's not a whole lot of places I feel 'safe' in that country, especially in any of the major cities. Or did you not notice the murders, abductions and kidnappings, hostage taking, muggings, gang violence, and equally thuggish trigger happy police during your tenure there? You always feel far less safe in unfamiliar environments, especially if you don't know the language and the local customs. That said countries like Brazil aren't a lot less safe compared to the UK as long as you avoid the dodgy areas (same goes for the UK really). Edited December 3, 2011 by awake_eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Whatever eagle. Your Brazilian analogue is ******. The UK is one of the safest countries in the world. Used to think it was Norway until this summer. And I'll reiterate; I don't classify the student protest or your riots as 'civil war', unruly civil disobedience perhaps, but I saw no officials on the executioners chock, or at the baying end of a lynch mob. Just a bunch of kids running amok because they can, and they're not afraid of the consequences. And you really don't need to cut and paste. I know what I write and can scroll back if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Piddle Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Pyramid selling scams need ever increasing numbers to keep them going. This sums it up perfectly. Why don't we change 'England' to 'Mini Poland' while we're at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 And I'll reiterate; I don't classify the student protest or your riots as 'civil war', unruly civil disobedience perhaps, but I saw no officials on the executioners chock, or at the baying end of a lynch mob. Just a bunch of kids running amok because they can, and they're not afraid of the consequences. Of course the riots weren't political, therefore not technically a civil war, but the effects on the people living in the affected areas were quite comparable during those 2-3 days of riots. It's far more than anyone in most other 1st world countries has ever experienced on their doorsteps in recent times. And you really don't need to cut and paste. I know what I write and can scroll back if necessary. I don't cut'n'paste anything, I do interleaved quoting as I have been accustomed to since my early days on BBSes 20 years ago. I still consider it the most efficient way of of replying on a forum.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 @ awake_eagle Not unless you count every spring in at least one Canadian city, with mark of the end of the Stanley cup (if a team gets there) and accompanying riots in the losing city. Or any time there is a big rap show in the less prosperous neighbourhoods in America. Sh1t man. There are 'riots' all the time throughout the first world, with smashed shops and burned out cars, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concerned_money Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) ! Edited December 3, 2011 by concerned_money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concerned_money Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Here's the problem; it would be nice to think you can wall yourself off from everyone else and enjoy the benefits of their lower standards of living. But it can't happen that way - nothing stays the same, and your high standard of living was only based on a temporary condition where they were willing to give stuff to you for really low rewards. Eventually they get their ideas, they build up enough wealth and don't feel like providing for you on the cheap forever. And so it all ends. We have two choices; cry and whinge about it, or earn our way in the World. There's no third option. I disagree. (i) automation instead of using 3rd world labour (ii)third option: decrease population levels & reduce external dependencies whilst become self reliant A one child policy over three generations & bingo all the housing pressure disappears, all energy issues get pushed out another decade or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concerned_money Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 How do you reckon? And outside of mass killing or deportations, what is your proposed solution? And what of all the millions of 'pureblood' Brit white trash who've haven't toiled in multiple generations? Humans aren't meant to live in cities, they struggle to get by with the next village over. But to answer the question, I pretty much pulled that figure outa my ar$e. I've travelled the planet 40+countries for 10years+ and it seems that less humans = better life, it's that simple ! Auz, france, Western US, NZ, Southern Spain, Argentina, Chile ie temperate climate & the lowest pop density = highest standard of life. France has x2 the sq/km's & the same pop as the UK - just hand in rural france with the boomers for a month and you'll see what I mean Also retaining your identity & culture as a bonus too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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