spyguy Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Interesting following the comments on various articles on the BBC. Apart from the odd 'I only earn 4k working as a heart surgeon' type, most of the higher rated posts tend to blame Brown and Balls. Interesting to see what will happen in the next election. The cut backs will go on for about another 10 years meaning that even if Labour get in, they will have to carry on cutting. Imagine if Labour had got in last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankfeeder Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Definitely not ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The globalist bankster elite. Politicians are only disposable puppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiges Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The globalist bankster elite. Politicians are only disposable puppets. Blaming the bankers for lending to the feckless is like blaming the pub for making someone drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Should Labour be blamed? Governments from across the political spectrum in almost all developed countries have been piling on debt for decades. Even Thatcher and Reagan expanded the state and increased the debt. To be so universal, this whole process must be driven by some very powerful underlying forces. As clever as the Austrian analysis is, I don't think it knows how we got into this situation in the first place. An Austrian who can explain what will happen if you keep printing money and piling on debt is like a doctor who can explain what will happen next now that you have cancer. It doesn't explain how the patient got the printing/cancer disease in the first place, and offers no solution for how to avoid getting the disease in future. Why did we gradually switch to pure fiat over the course of the twentieth century? If we do go back onto a hard money standard like gold, how can we ensure that we stay there? Nobody has the answer to these questions, so the concept of blame is meaningless. It's like blaming medieval surgeons for post-operative infections when nobody had any concept of microorganisms and aseptic technique. Yes, the 1997-2010 Labour governments did a terrible job, but I think all of the alternative parties would have landed us in exactly the same mess. P.S. I have never voted Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Blaming the bankers for lending to the feckless is like blaming the pub for making someone drunk. You never give up with this nonsense, do you? Lending to the 'feckless' was just the tip of the iceberg, the root of the problem lies much deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGGY Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Both, Gordo takes most fo the blame (yes the bublic should but when 18y old kids are being told its the end of boom and bust and have never know it to be any different how should they know that what they were doing was nuts). Ozzi had a great opportunity to make it right (or atleast try very hard to do so) but all the lies, the spin the general ****** have turned me on him. He had a political clean s;late he could ahve stood up and said this is how bad it is and this is what we REALLY need to do to fix it. But he took the political route rather than the best interest of the country route and now we are back where we started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Blaming the bankers for lending to the feckless is like blaming the pub for making someone drunk. This is why pubs and the alcohol trade are strictly regulated as to who they can serve and have a huge transaction tax ('duty'). Whereas if they were run like banks, they'd be handing out bottles of vodka to alcoholics and getting the government to make them good on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The bankers, the government etc, anyone but themselves, even though they borrowed the money, spanked it up the way, accepted the big pay rises, continue to shop in the big super markets, etc etc etc. Sadly, we are to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyewackitt Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) It's systemic short-termism, it's institutionalisation, it's indoctrination. The bankers and politicians can't get to the level of control they have without buying into the system, it's mantras, it's rules. They are no longer able to think outside the box or look at the functional relationship between government and business at a philosophical and practical level. We have 4-5 yr term leaders who focus on GDP growth during their time in power - that's it. What's required is a fundamental enlightment that a new change of attitude is needed, but this won't happen because those who get high enough to have powers to make changes can no longer think outside the system itself. Ed Balls is a classic example of denial. He was instrumental in causing so much of this chaos as the right hand man to Brown in the treasury but he is so indoctrinated that his response to Osbourne is that we should never have stopped spending and this would in turn have kept the economy going. The very concept that the economy was already failing is alien to him because he believes in the rightness of what he says. It's really pretty f'ing tragic.... Edited November 30, 2011 by pyewackitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) The bankers, the government etc, anyone but themselves, even though they borrowed the money, spanked it up the way, accepted the big pay rises, continue to shop in the big super markets, etc etc etc. Sadly, we are to blame. True we are all to blame but not equally. Most blame goes to the globalist banksters, their puppy dog politicians and the whole 'elite' that controls this world. That said I fully agree that change needs to begin with ourselves, everytime we spend money we should really be asking ourselves who and what we are supporting with that money we are spending. Everytime we spend money we are voting with our wallet. --- Edited November 30, 2011 by awake_eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Right now, the public understand that Labour guided us into this mess. However, if we're not out of it by 2015, they will blame the Conservatives for that, regardless of whether it is resolvable in that time frame or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankfeeder Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Right now, the public understand that Labour guided us into this mess. I'm not sure they do, you know. The vehicle was pointing this way from the eighties and no government since has used the steering wheel. A triumph of received wisdom over common sense. The Labour governments definitely whooped and enjoyed the ride the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsaucer Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Labour's great shame was continuing the deregulation that Thatcher started. Anyone who thinks the Tories would have done any better is deluded. They promised to match labour's spend pound for pound, and wanted to deregulate the banking and mortgage sector even further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Governments make the rules. Everyone else plays by them. Yeah right, I'm sure you also still believe that in about 3 weeks an old fat man with a big white beard will be visiting each of our houses delivering gifts via the chimney... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankfeeder Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Anyone who thinks the Tories would have done any better is deluded. You're probably right it would have been marginal at best, but it wouldn't have been quite so disgusting - in my fantasy anyway. Blair/Brown - yeurghhhh - their behaviour was awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankfeeder Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yeah right, I'm sure you also still believe that in about 3 weeks an old fat man with a big white beard will be visiting each of our houses delivering gifts via the chimney... You mean.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 No Comment. Too angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankfeeder Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 No Comment. Too angry. I admire your hump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 You mean.... See post #3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamdamosuzuki Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 This is why pubs and the alcohol trade are strictly regulated as to who they can serve and have a huge transaction tax ('duty'). Whereas if they were run like banks, they'd be handing out bottles of vodka to alcoholics and getting the government to make them good on it. THIS. Substitute Heroin for alcohol in NRK's case, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Blizzard) Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 This is why pubs and the alcohol trade are strictly regulated as to who they can serve and have a huge transaction tax ('duty'). Whereas if they were run like banks, they'd be handing out bottles of vodka to alcoholics and getting the government to make them good on it. Millions of people took part in, the madness. Millions. The bankers were just the most successful. The winners of a game that almost everyone wanted to play. Obviously bankers deserve criticism, as do politicians (both Labour and Conservative, from Thatcher to Cameron). They get it (criticism I mean). The people who have yet to admit their share of the blame are the landlords, the TV producers, the amateur developers and flippers, and the consumerist debt junkies. Anyone and everyone who cheered rises in the cost of living, and still stand in opposition to anything that could actually fix the mess. Those people can't understand the true nature of the problem until they admit that it is their fault, and until they do that, no solution will be politically possible. Until then, it's all about evil bankers, refusing to lend, destroying the economy by making house prices fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankfeeder Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 See post #3 Now that did make me laugh. Was that a post I saw flying over your head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Imagine if Labour had got in last time. I'd have SOOOOOO loved it if Brown had won. Shadenfreude x 1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamdamosuzuki Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yeah right, I'm sure you also still believe that in about 3 weeks an old fat man with a big white beard will be visiting each of our houses delivering gifts via the chimney... Come on, after the year we've had, surely I can rely on the big man! Thant's upset me, that has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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