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Does Bts Irritate You............

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I get the impression that BTL landlords are one (major) reason that FTB'ers can't afford to get onto the property ladder. Of course there is some truth in this but even when people could afford to buy , for one reason or another they prefered to rent.

I don't agree with a landlord buying multiple properties and not keeping them in anything but showhome condition. I have only 1 BTL and I like to think that the close proximity to M4, M25 and M40, the 5 min walk to the train station and a fully furnished flat would make tenants happy rather than be annoyed that they are covering my mortgage.

I just wondered whether BTS is accepted on this site. Is buying a property for say £160K, totally reburbishing for £15K and then selling for £200k:-

a) A well deserved £25k because new owners can move straight in

B) An undeserved £25K because new owners could have refurbished themselves and save money

c) BTS irritates you as much as BTL , so £50 is too much profit

BTL landlords are constantly criticised, but I don't recall much criticism of BTS.

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I just wondered whether BTS is accepted on this site.

In America they call it 'flipping'. Speculative greed that won't work in a falling market.

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I just wondered whether BTS is accepted on this site. Is buying a property for say £160K, totally reburbishing for £15K and then selling for £200k:-

a) A well deserved £25k because new owners can move straight in

B) An undeserved £25K because new owners could have refurbished themselves and save money

c) BTS irritates you as much as BTL , so £50 is too much profit

BTL landlords are constantly criticised, but I don't recall much criticism of BTS.

As with many things - it depends.

At one extreme someone who takes a derelict house and redoes the roof, addresses the damp, rewirng, puts in central heating, and brings it up to modern standards - those I don't have a problem with. It's a hell of a risk sometimes to buy such property and it's a lot of work to fix. Overall, I generally think 'good luck to them'.

At the other extreme, you have someone who buys a house, sits on it for 6 months, and then tries to sell at a 20% gain having done nothing to the house. This type I hope gets burned badly.

The first example is providing a significant service by risking their capital and restoring a building to the housing supply for someone to live in.

The second is an example of someone abusing the system and artificially raising prices. They've added nothing of value. Now for beanie babies they can do this as much as they want, but houses are very different. Housing has a tremendous impact on society, and housing booms like we've seen benefit the few at the expense of the many (when the bust comes later).

Basically an economy can only grow when productive things are done - we can't get rich selling houses to each other. The capital tied up in that second example could be going to more productive use, and boosting the growth of the country - everyone wins out of that.

Inbetween those two examples - well, it's on a case by case basis.

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It works - but the flipping ends up in Burger K*ng!

Yes, BTL landlords should be getting a proper job. BK or Maccy Ds would be a good start.

The house price crash - "I'm lovin' it".

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I just wondered whether BTS is accepted on this site. Is buying a property for say £160K, totally reburbishing for £15K and then selling for £200k:-

a) A well deserved £25k because new owners can move straight in

cool.gif An undeserved £25K because new owners could have refurbished themselves and save money

c) BTS irritates you as much as BTL , so £50 is too much profit

d) helpful to anyone who needs a good laugh, because if anyone is as self delusional as to think that they can make £25k doing this in the current market, and tries it, we can all sit back and watch whilst the price drops from £200k, to £190k, and then finally settles for less than they paid for it before even the cost of the £15k refurbishment.

Bring 'em on!!

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Yes, BTL landlords should be getting a proper job. BK or Maccy Ds would be a good start.

The house price crash - "I'm lovin' it".

and it's gonna be a Whopper,too!

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I get the impression that BTL landlords are one (major) reason that FTB'ers can't afford to get onto the property ladder. Of course there is some truth in this but even when people could afford to buy , for one reason or another they prefered to rent.

I don't agree with a landlord buying multiple properties and not keeping them in anything but showhome condition. I have only 1 BTL and I like to think that the close proximity to M4, M25 and M40, the 5 min walk to the train station and a fully furnished flat would make tenants happy rather than be annoyed that they are covering my mortgage.

I just wondered whether BTS is accepted on this site. Is buying a property for say £160K, totally reburbishing for £15K and then selling for £200k:-

a) A well deserved £25k because new owners can move straight in

B) An undeserved £25K because new owners could have refurbished themselves and save money

c) BTS irritates you as much as BTL , so £50 is too much profit

BTL landlords are constantly criticised, but I don't recall much criticism of BTS.

I think you've long missed the boat on that on BTS.

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Personally I feel no mallice toward anyone.

the market dictates what the market dictates.

For many years people have been told that Houses are the only good and safe investment and a lot of people have based their futures on that alone.

This has not been like speculating in the share market.. This has been people speculating a life times worth of crippling debt against an investment.

As ill advised as it seems to me, you have to respect the balls of someone prepared to buy an investment that has itself risen in value by three fold to what appers to be the top of the cycle... and to do so with decades worth of debt...

They look at a market that has swung up and down over the decades and take such a chance..

Balls of steel..

god... the news of the market was stronger at the end of the eighties and the comparable cost was so small in comparison.. and people were crippled then..

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MadJock,

Welcome! and a very good. Totally agree. Ranting gets us no where, although I can understand the frustrations behind the rants.

I don't understand the anger over BTL or BTS!

I have often depended on lardlords at various stages of my life - I have no gripe with them. The same with BTS - it's a calculated risk to make profit. Some win, some lose.

The only thing I take issue with is lax and unregulated lending. (Holiday home owners also get my goat because they have idylic dreams of rural villages and then turn them into ghost museums that become a nightmare full of uptight city cretins for 2/3 weeks of the year)

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As with many things - it depends.

At one extreme someone who takes a derelict house and redoes the roof, addresses the damp, rewirng, puts in central heating, and brings it up to modern standards - those I don't have a problem with. It's a hell of a risk sometimes to buy such property and it's a lot of work to fix. Overall, I generally think 'good luck to them'.

At the other extreme, you have someone who buys a house, sits on it for 6 months, and then tries to sell at a 20% gain having done nothing to the house. This type I hope gets burned badly.

The first example is providing a significant service by risking their capital and restoring a building to the housing supply for someone to live in.

The second is an example of someone abusing the system and artificially raising prices. They've added nothing of value. Now for beanie babies they can do this as much as they want, but houses are very different. Housing has a tremendous impact on society, and housing booms like we've seen benefit the few at the expense of the many (when the bust comes later).

Basically an economy can only grow when productive things are done - we can't get rich selling houses to each other. The capital tied up in that second example could be going to more productive use, and boosting the growth of the country - everyone wins out of that.

Inbetween those two examples - well, it's on a case by case basis.

I fall somewhere between your 2 examples. But not BTS. I changed the kitchen, bathroom, sorted out some damp, carpetted, laminated and generally decorated to restore it back to its former glory. Well maybe not. I can't afford gold gilt framed pictures. It's a victorian conversion, part of a large villa and quite frankly it wasn't livable the way it was.

After renovating I let it to a friend, so no tennant worries. I plan to sell my residential home in 2 years and move into the new flat. I am tied into both mortgages until then. This way I will have far more living space and I should avoid paying CGT. As long as I use any profit from the sale of my home to pay off some of the mortgage on the BTL, and the motive for my moving is not to avoid CGT , I will qualify. Unless you tell me differently.

I've said it before on this forum, if house prices drop it makes no difference to me. I would actually prefer if prices fall. My friends that aren't able to afford to get onto the ladder could and I could then afford to buy a place with more than 2 bedrooms......a garden for the cats.....and a garage.

Anyway Madjock, I think most members of HPC will agree with you.

I wonder what everyones view is on developers buying derelict houses, knocking them down and erecing blocks of flats not in keeping with the area?

It's happened behind my place. The derelict house could have been restored but the council granted the developers permission to build modern looking flats in a village built before 1900! There is already a traffic problem that the council is well aware of, yet they see no problem with an extra 21 flats. I guess money talks.

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  • 337 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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