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Spanish Property - How Much Would You Pay To Own One


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What's the best site to trawl Spanish properties on, with a good mapping function etc?

The best one is http://www.idealista.com/ - it has good mapping and good coverage for all of Spain (it's the Spanish equivalent to Rightmove)

http://www.fotocasa.es/ is ok, but it's a bit clunky

If you are mainly interested in coastal/expat property then http://www.kyero.com/ and Rightmove are more dedicated to these markets, but they don't have mapping (in the case of Rightmove I guess it's because the agents don't like telling people where the property is)

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The best one is http://www.idealista.com/ - it has good mapping and good coverage for all of Spain (it's the Spanish equivalent to Rightmove)

http://www.fotocasa.es/ is ok, but it's a bit clunky

If you are mainly interested in coastal/expat property then http://www.kyero.com/ and Rightmove are more dedicated to these markets, but they don't have mapping (in the case of Rightmove I guess it's because the agents don't like telling people where the property is)

Thanks.

Idealista is ok in Spanish, but the English version is a shocker.

I'm only looking for now, got a VERY vague idea about retiring down there in about 20 years and some stuff is starting to look cheap especially round Valencia and the Costa Blanca. Well, cheap to buy anyway, maintenance and taxes might be another issue........

Question for any of the posters more familar with Spain than me - where would be good to retire to?

No expat enclaves with bad fish and chips please, a few Brits is OK but I'm a reasonable linguist and Spanish is one of the easiest languages.

Somewhere a shortish-medium walk from an easy surf spot with a garden and a shortish-medium walk from the town would be ideal, or even in town.

I like to surf and play tennis now, though I'm cr4p, when I'm old it'll just be swimming and walking I guess.

I had the Costa de Luz in mind - anyone got any comments?

Before any experts jump down my throat for anything I've said that exposes my ignorance of Spain, which is quite profound, I've said it's a vague idea for now! :-)

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Thanks.

Idealista is ok in Spanish, but the English version is a shocker.

I'm only looking for now, got a VERY vague idea about retiring down there in about 20 years and some stuff is starting to look cheap especially round Valencia and the Costa Blanca. Well, cheap to buy anyway, maintenance and taxes might be another issue........

Question for any of the posters more familar with Spain than me - where would be good to retire to?

No expat enclaves with bad fish and chips please, a few Brits is OK but I'm a reasonable linguist and Spanish is one of the easiest languages.

Somewhere a shortish-medium walk from an easy surf spot with a garden and a shortish-medium walk from the town would be ideal, or even in town.

I like to surf and play tennis now, though I'm cr4p, when I'm old it'll just be swimming and walking I guess.

I had the Costa de Luz in mind - anyone got any comments?

If you like big sandy beaches then Costa de Luz is a good option, although the water is a bit cooler and it's a bit windier than the med side of Spain. Tarrifa is a nice town and world famous for wind/kite surfing, but I don't really know that area well enough to give recommendations.

Personally I think the best warm beaches are on the Balearic islands (Mallorca, Menorca and Ibiza), and bits of the Costa Brava in Girona (Tamariu, Lafranc, Begur) - that's where you still get nice coves with pine forests coming down to the sea, etc. However the summer is slightly shorter in those areas (the price you pay for a bit of greenery) and because they are less spoilt they are more expensive. I think demand for the area around Begur/Tamariu could increase in the next few years because they are due to finish the high speed rail connection with France next year, and soon people will be able to reach the area in a few hours from Switzerland, southern Germany, etc

Javea on the Northern Costa Blanca is OK as well - it's slightly warmer for longer, and is quite family orientated (I don't think you can surf there though). It's a bit more developed but generally ok and property is also a bit cheaper there (though still expensive compared to the multitude of shite that's been built along the costas)

If you don't mind lots of rain then the Atlantic coast probably has the most beautiful beaches, and it's not overdeveloped, but it's difficult to get to and perhaps lacks the vibe/culture you get further south.

Don't be too misled by the "Spanish being an easy language" rumour. In some ways it is quite easy since it is phonetic and generally romance languages have a familiar vocabulary to the english ear. But the grammar has a few tricky parts - the subjunctive is used much more than in say French, and as with French you have to get your head round different direct/indirect pronouns. But the main issue is that they don't all speak the Spanish you have been learning: locals on the eastern med coast mainly use various Catalan dialects, on the north coast they'll speak eather Basque, Castillian or Gallego, and on the Southern coasts they'll speak Castillian but with a heavy Andalucian accent that even people from the centre of Spain find very hard to follow. So it'll be hard to really engage with the locals, but fortunately they tend to be so easy going that they'll still socialise with you - the problem is you might find yourself getting frustrated.

My only advice is not to buy anywhere until you've spent at least 6 months living there, in particular it is vital that you spend a few winter months in your target areas to make sure they don't become ghost towns, suffer from flash floods, damp, etc. A lot of property on the coasts was designed as summer holiday homes, and then built to an even lower standard!. You must spend as much time as possible in getting your property purchase right first time, because it might take a long time to sell it if you don't like it, and you will lose money with the transaction costs.

Before any experts jump down my throat for anything I've said that exposes my ignorance of Spain, which is quite profound, I've said it's a vague idea for now! :-)

There are no experts on Spain - it's too diverse - even the Spanish are ignorant of large parts of Spain.

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Thanks for your post LALB, I also loved the coast around Palafrugell when I was there a few years ago, it's magnificent there, but at 400k Euros minimum for anything reasonable it's still looking a bit pricey, particularly as on the Costa de Luz you can get something a short stroll from the beach for 150k.

I don't doubt the best parts of Catalonia will hold value better (unless there is a civil war to keep them as part of Spain, which is not quite as outlandish an idea as it should be) but unless prices fall it's a bit steep for me.

Your advice about renting first is something I would normally follow, but tricky to do so in this case, as I'm not free to do so right now.

The idea is to try and get a place near the bottom of the Spanish market which will act as a holiday home and future retirement home.

I'm not too worried about Spanish although I wouldn't expect to ever reach the level where I understand all the locals jokes, but I managed to make pretty rapid progress with it a few years back in Peru, and Catalan isn't completely incomprehensible to me either due to the high proportion of French-derived words. Must admit I can't understand a word in the Canaries though, so I daresay Andalucia would be the same at first.....

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Thanks for your post LALB, I also loved the coast around Palafrugell when I was there a few years ago, it's magnificent there, but at 400k Euros minimum for anything reasonable it's still looking a bit pricey, particularly as on the Costa de Luz you can get something a short stroll from the beach for 150k.

I don't doubt the best parts of Catalonia will hold value better (unless there is a civil war to keep them as part of Spain, which is not quite as outlandish an idea as it should be) but unless prices fall it's a bit steep for me.

Your advice about renting first is something I would normally follow, but tricky to do so in this case, as I'm not free to do so right now.

The idea is to try and get a place near the bottom of the Spanish market which will act as a holiday home and future retirement home.

I'm not too worried about Spanish although I wouldn't expect to ever reach the level where I understand all the locals jokes, but I managed to make pretty rapid progress with it a few years back in Peru, and Catalan isn't completely incomprehensible to me either due to the high proportion of French-derived words. Must admit I can't understand a word in the Canaries though, so I daresay Andalucia would be the same at first.....

It's difficult to gice specific advice because there are so many factors. I have been looking around the Javea area because it ticks a lot of boxes for me, and it's cheaper than the Costa Brava. The problem is that right now I can rent a nice flat off season for say €400/month. If I bought a place for free I would still end up paying about €200/month on things like maintenance and taxes. So, even if I buy a place for free I still have to spend at least 6 months of the year there to make it financially a better option than renting!

OK so in reality you might live there in summer, when renting the same place would cost more, but then again in reality you wouldn't buy the place fior free, you'd also have 11% purchase costs to absorb, and a whole load of other unforeseens to deal with.

The conclusion I have reluctantly come to is that buying holiday property in Spain only makes sense if the value of the property goes up. I say "reluctantly" because I'm in a position to pick up a "bargain" and it's so tempting to buy somewhere because a) you like it and b ) you can get it for 70% off peak prices. But the numbers still don't bloody add up!

Edited by LiveAndLetBuy
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  • 1 month later...

I think our view is biased by the view of the south coast, brits retiring there. That's always been uninteresting for me since I felt it was a bubble before.

What's the story regards to the real meat and potatoes homes rather than areas ravaged by speculation, holiday and retirement homes? What about the interior and north coast? Santander, Bilbao, San Sebastian, Pamploma?

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I think our view is biased by the view of the south coast, brits retiring there. That's always been uninteresting for me since I felt it was a bubble before.

What's the story regards to the real meat and potatoes homes rather than areas ravaged by speculation, holiday and retirement homes? What about the interior and north coast? Santander, Bilbao, San Sebastian, Pamploma?

...and also commercial property and productive argricultural land

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think our view is biased by the view of the south coast, brits retiring there. That's always been uninteresting for me since I felt it was a bubble before.

What's the story regards to the real meat and potatoes homes rather than areas ravaged by speculation, holiday and retirement homes? What about the interior and north coast? Santander, Bilbao, San Sebastian, Pamploma?

Property prices have held up better in the north - because that's where the jobs are, and the local economy wasn't corrupted by the tourist industry. Climate is a lot milder and wetter there in summer, mind.. Pamplona for me is a gem, but avoid it in July (San Fermines).

Some really cheap properties starting to appear in the south. 2 bedroomed place for 6k?

6thousand

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  • 3 months later...

I've wanted to live in Spain for a long time and commute to work because I can. I've learnt a bit of the language now and I'm here in Spain right now searching. I have been in the banks and found what previously would have been considered 'a deal' only a few years ago. After being homeless for years to save money finally I can afford my first home!

However... I've changed my mind on buying. Here's why:

Spain cannot pay it's debts. It can only delay the enivitable. It has to exit the euro or at least something drastic must happen. When I look at Spanish culture it seems to me likely that these properties would be seized. Personally I know that if was to become resident here I might have more security but for me I then have to pay a lot more tax.

Do you really want to be in a foreign country that's in a mess - do you really want to be the immigrant - the people who get attacked first?

If you buy in euros and the switch to pesetas happens and you have a mortgage then you're then going to be paying in unknown amount!

The whole thing is incredibly risky. Sometimes it's worth taking a risk but the prices still aren't low enough for this kind of unknown in my opinion.

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I too have been eyeing up properties in spain, particularly in Marbella or even in Canary Islands for a couple of years. Canary prices seem to be stubbornly resilient. Anyone got any insights into the market in Gran Canaria's south? Have been many times and love the place...

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I too have been eyeing up properties in spain, particularly in Marbella or even in Canary Islands for a couple of years. Canary prices seem to be stubbornly resilient. Anyone got any insights into the market in Gran Canaria's south? Have been many times and love the place...

I'm in Tenerife and I am finding the same. The prices appear to hold because of 2 things:

- germans still visiting

- they are pricing and hoping but nothing sells apart from the banks who want to recover their losses. These tend to be those anonymous mouse house developments I hate

It's been a disappointment for me. Why are the prices so high when Spain is about to tank and everything crash including the currency? Nobody is buying or selling apart from Russians buying distressed from the banks because they desperately need somewhere to park their cash.

I haven't seen any French, Spanish, few British, Swedish, eastern Europeans. It's been almost completely just Germans here. They appear to be the only country in Europe with any money to come here. If they stop coming then what?

Meanwhile there is an element of firesale in Andalucia but it doesn't reflect the prospect of complete meltdown for me. People are living in some kind of daydream. The banks are the only ones who see it for what it is and there you can start to get a realistic price but even that doesn't match the market imho.

Lanzarote has lowered a bit but it's dependent on desalinated water there and personally I find that risky.

Keep an eye out. It will drop a lot more.

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I've wanted to live in Spain for a long time and commute to work because I can. I've learnt a bit of the language now and I'm here in Spain right now searching. I have been in the banks and found what previously would have been considered 'a deal' only a few years ago. After being homeless for years to save money finally I can afford my first home!

However... I've changed my mind on buying. Here's why:

Spain cannot pay it's debts. It can only delay the enivitable. It has to exit the euro or at least something drastic must happen. When I look at Spanish culture it seems to me likely that these properties would be seized. Personally I know that if was to become resident here I might have more security but for me I then have to pay a lot more tax.

Do you really want to be in a foreign country that's in a mess - do you really want to be the immigrant - the people who get attacked first?

If you buy in euros and the switch to pesetas happens and you have a mortgage then you're then going to be paying in unknown amount!

The whole thing is incredibly risky. Sometimes it's worth taking a risk but the prices still aren't low enough for this kind of unknown in my opinion.

Going by what you are saying renting would be better for you, I would say always rent for a time in your chosen area before buying......whatever you do, a house is not an investment, be prepared to lose money, sometimes lots....but if you only buy at a price you can afford, having a good idea how long you will want to keep it, can make some friends, most people are friendly, and embrace the atmosphere and the culture, being prepared to adapt, to go with the flow.....what have you got to lose?.....no fear. ;)

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Going by what you are saying renting would be better for you, I would say always rent for a time in your chosen area before buying......whatever you do, a house is not an investment, be prepared to lose money, sometimes lots....but if you only buy at a price you can afford, having a good idea how long you will want to keep it, can make some friends, most people are friendly, and embrace the atmosphere and the culture, being prepared to adapt, to go with the flow.....what have you got to lose?.....no fear. ;)

I suppose if you love a place/area in spain and want to live there £40k (or less even) could be worth the risk. Can't see it falling apart completely for a few years, but who knows, Worst case scenario you just walk away from the house.

Chances of every non-spanish owner losing their houses? 1/10 at a guess?

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  • 1 month later...

I suppose if you love a place/area in spain and want to live there £40k (or less even) could be worth the risk. Can't see it falling apart completely for a few years, but who knows, Worst case scenario you just walk away from the house.

Chances of every non-spanish owner losing their houses? 1/10 at a guess?

When you can rent for €500 a month it's just not worth the risk.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Some really cheap properties starting to appear in the south. 2 bedroomed place for 6k?

That listing has been removed now, but I recall looking at it and wondering why so many of these traditional looking Spanish homes have ugly bars/grills fixed infront of their windows.

Does it trace back to invasions, or crimewave security problems back in the day? Obviously crime on the rise again almost everywhere the taps of unrepayable boom money/debt have been turned down a bit, so the function having real use again.

article-1359029-0D4927D1000005DC-45_636x409.jpg

End of the dream: Seeing that the writing was on the wall, three years ago Rob Dawson and his wife put their house on the market. The asking price was initially £235,000, but has gradually been reduced to its current one of £104,000

‘I live on £85 a month and spend my time walking the dogs and doing the cleaning. I’d leave the house if I could but we’ve been burgled twice, so I’m stuck.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359029/Spains-villa-values-HALVED-UK-immigrants-afford-come-home.html

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Lanzarote has lowered a bit but it's dependent on desalinated water there and personally I find that risky.

Just did some research about water supply in the Canaries before reading your post. My concern would be the islands are very reliant on imports. A minor trade problem in a deepening recession, and perhaps fewer staples and luxuries coming in.

I suppose if you love a place/area in spain and want to live there £40k (or less even) could be worth the risk. Can't see it falling apart completely for a few years, but who knows, Worst case scenario you just walk away from the house.

Things could change in an area I'm not sure how much I'd continue to love it, although I have the same concerns when looking at a home to buy in the UK. From where we are now, the prevailing view of an areas could change rapidly with just a little bit of decline.

These seven islands were long some of the poorest regions of Spain, and only decades ago this territory was practically an afterthought to mainland Spain.

Ironically, the islands that have traditionally been sources of poverty-driven emigration are now the recipients of mass immigration. The presence of African immigrants, who arrive almost daily by boat to the islands, is one of the most polarising issues facing the Canaries today. The human drama played out on the beaches here, where sunbathing tourists are at times the first to greet the often infirm and dehydrated immigrants, is heart-wrenching.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/canary-islands

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  • 2 weeks later...

That listing has been removed now, but I recall looking at it and wondering why so many of these traditional looking Spanish homes have ugly bars/grills fixed infront of their windows.

Does it trace back to invasions, or crimewave security problems back in the day? Obviously crime on the rise again almost everywhere the taps of unrepayable boom money/debt have been turned down a bit, so the function having real use again.

From what I heard, the bars are required to get insurance for the house. But I agree, it looks ugly. So one more reason not to buy.

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and wondering why so many of these traditional looking Spanish homes have ugly bars/grills fixed infront of their windows.

I actually like them.. means you can leave the windows wide open when it's nice outside all day and night and not fret about someone jumping into the house. You get used to them (especially if they are ornate).

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  • 2 months later...

Lifetime rental.

While I still don't want to sink money into a full property per-sec I'm spending quite a bit of time in the Canaries and I need somewhere to store things. I'd like to buy some small storage area because the thought of constantly paying rental for this I don't like.

I don't want to get an NIE and go on the radar with the Spanish tax system & government.

Can I lease / rent a space for 99+ years instead to avoid the ownership and therefore the NIE?

Alternatively can I do some kind of loan setup?

Where or who would be the exact people to ask about this when I go back there? Would it be ok to just propose it to a seller?

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Thanks Outsider & Garb. (Garb, it's also getting out of the house that I also have in mind, in some sort of emergency. Like if we could not find our keys to the front or rear door, or get access to them, in a fire/smoke.)

NIE? Ah ok. What sort of stuff do you want to store and are thinking of rental for? Sounds like it must be bulky in total. Can it really be that valuable? Can't you just be ruthless, get rid or sell it? If it has sentimental value, take photos of bulky documents (eg: family photographs in albums), furniture ect, and transfer to laptop/memory cards, so always got a digital memory it.

The NIE Number is issued by the National Police of Spain and in accordance to Spanish law is required for the purchase or sale of any real estate, vehicle, or boat within Spain. There are many other transactions that require the parties involved to possess an NIE Number.
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Lifetime rental.

While I still don't want to sink money into a full property per-sec I'm spending quite a bit of time in the Canaries and I need somewhere to store things. I'd like to buy some small storage area because the thought of constantly paying rental for this I don't like.

I don't want to get an NIE and go on the radar with the Spanish tax system & government.

Can I lease / rent a space for 99+ years instead to avoid the ownership and therefore the NIE?

Alternatively can I do some kind of loan setup?

Where or who would be the exact people to ask about this when I go back there? Would it be ok to just propose it to a seller?

Can't you just find someone, either with a small business or domestic property, and rent storage space from them?

There must be loads of people who'd love some passive extra income, and who'd bite your hands off.

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