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Unemployed Graduate On The Beeb


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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15722022

Listen to this graduate's breezy tone. She obviously had no idea what her job prospects were. She graduates then quite fancies working in publishing and the 'media sector' - two areas that are competitive and many of the entry-levels roles are done by trustarfarians working for free or very low pay.

It wasn't much different when I graduated over 10 years ago - aside from those that did teacher training no one attained a 'graduate' job after their first degree.

Isn't it utterly immoral that schools are still peddling the idea that a degree sets you up for life and saddling people with vast debts?

I wasn't much different to her. With three As at A Level and a humanities degree from a middle-of-the-road Uni I never thought I'd have to do crappy jobs with the fickos who half-failed their GSCEs.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15722022

Listen to this graduate's breezy tone. She obviously had no idea what her job prospects were. She graduates then quite fancies working in publishing and the 'media sector' - two areas that are competitive and many of the entry-levels roles are done by trustarfarians working for free or very low pay.

It wasn't much different when I graduated over 10 years ago - aside from those that did teacher training no one attained a 'graduate' job after their first degree.

Isn't it utterly immoral that schools are still peddling the idea that a degree sets you up for life and saddling people with vast debts?

I wasn't much different to her. With three As at A Level and a humanities degree from a middle-of-the-road Uni I never thought I'd have to do crappy jobs with the fickos who half-failed their GSCEs.

The entire generation has been sold a pup as far as university is concerned. There was a graduate on Newsnight last night (Media Studies), who said that from her entire cohort of 100, only one person had found employment in an area that was even close to what they'd studied. There simply is not the need for number of graduates that the universities produce each year, especially in subjects like Media Studies. I fear for my own kids' futures, and their generation. At least there's another seven years before my son finishes school, hopefully we'll at least be able to see the start of the road to recovery by then ...

Edited by Tenubracon
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The entire generation has been sold a pup as far as university is concerned. There was a graduate on Newsnight last night (Media Studies), who said that from her entire cohort of 100, only one person had found employment in an area that was even close to what they'd studied. There simply is not the need for number of graduates that the universities produce each year, especially in subjects like Media Studies. I fear for my own kids' futures, and their gereation. At least there's another seven years before my son finishes school, hopefully we'll at least be able to see the start of the road to recovery by then ...

He'll be fine.

it's going to turn out that all that horrible debt is wiped out by that nasty inflation.

Free education for all!

(Sorry boomers, your house is your pension though you don't need a lot of student debt to back up your pensions, don't worry. :lol: )

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The entire generation has been sold a pup as far as university is concerned. There was a graduate on Newsnight last night (Media Studies), who said that from her entire cohort of 100, only one person had found employment in an area that was even close to what they'd studied. There simply is not the need for number of graduates that the universities produce each year, especially in subjects like Media Studies. I fear for my own kids' futures, and their generation. At least there's another seven years before my son finishes school, hopefully we'll at least be able to see the start of the road to recovery by then ...

Still the senior Lecturers and Chief execs of all the "new" universities will have nice pensions and a lovely house to live in, so it's not all bad.

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The entire generation has been sold a pup as far as university is concerned. There was a graduate on Newsnight last night (Media Studies), who said that from her entire cohort of 100, only one person had found employment in an area that was even close to what they'd studied. There simply is not the need for number of graduates that the universities produce each year, especially in subjects like Media Studies. I fear for my own kids' futures, and their generation. At least there's another seven years before my son finishes school, hopefully we'll at least be able to see the start of the road to recovery by then ...

Unfortunately we've had 'education inflation' over the last couple of decades whereby more and more people have been funnelled into the third level education system. To accomodate a huge increase in people, they've had to reduce entry requirements and introduce a load of mickey mouse courses .. as well as making the students pay through removing the grant and then taking away paid fees (as it's no longer feasible for the state to cough up).

The result of the 'devaluing' of educational standards is that you need 'more education' to get the same jobs. And since you now need to cough up money yourself (by borrowing) to get a third level education, people are entering their careers carrying huge amounts of debt (which of course, can't be cleared through bankruptcy). When I went to uni the model was 'meet strict entry standards and the state will fund your third level education'. Now it's 'anyone can go, just sign on the dotted line for a big loan'.

Combine that with an awful economy at the moment and new graduates have well and truly 'been had' as there's not even any sort of payoff for most people.

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I studied TV & Media for a year at a college , found work at an audiovisual place.Basically setting up TV/PA/drapes etc for corporate customers - mostly hotels etc.

If these kids think they are just going to waltz in and get a job in TV they are dreaming but they might want to check out the AV technician route.Anyhow i've got a 9-5 job in another industry now - hours in AV tech were really screwed up alot of Fri/Sat nights etc.

Edited by Ruffneck
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What I can't understand is why these graduates complain about low paid jobs.

They've just been earning around MINUS £20k for the last couple of years. These kids need to get out there and work at companies where they can learn real skills for what they'd probably consider peanuts but is actually very high wages compared to what they've just been earning and got nowhere.

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I studied TV & Media for a year at a college , found work at an audiovisual place.Basically setting up TV/PA/drapes etc for corporate customers - mostly hotels etc.

If these kids think they are just going to waltz in and get a job in TV they are dreaming but they might want to check out the AV technician route.Anyhow i've got a 9-5 job in another industry now - hours in AV tech were really screwed up alot of Fri/Sat nights etc.

Yes, it's all about getting a foot in the door same as it ever was. It's a myth that 'everything needs a degree now' - if you're some energetic kid that weasels his way into sweeping floors in the right place you'll get the opening.

No one will say, 'Well, Johnny, we'd like to give you a proper job now - can you bring your degree certificate in tomorrow? ... Oh, you don't have one... well, sod off then...'

Actually, with 75% of new job growth in low-pay, low-skill sectors there's less and less reason to get a degree now unless you're after some traditional profession. It's a pretty expensive lottery ticket on the off-chance something s*****y comes up that really needs one.

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It takes a long time to dispell popupular myths.

Some aged 20 now will have parents maybe of forties to fifties. For these people going to uni was a great benefit. So its hardly surprising that they are being brainwashed into thinking it is a good idea and told by their parents that university is essential.

When the current lots kids (20-30 years time) come along it might be a bit different.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15722022

Listen to this graduate's breezy tone. She obviously had no idea what her job prospects were. She graduates then quite fancies working in publishing and the 'media sector' - two areas that are competitive and many of the entry-levels roles are done by trustarfarians working for free or very low pay.

Students make degree choices with a staggering lack of knowledge of the field of employment they think they want to enter.

Schools are incapable of giving careers advice about many media sectors, and make no effort to get professionals in to give an insider's view. There isn't 'a slot in the timetable available' is the reply I've been given. Any suggestion of after-school, informal talks by chosen sector professionals is countered with stuff about 'parents' routines collecting their kids' or 'school bus arrival times'.

I'm certain there are dozens of retired or active professionals in every career area who would willingly give up an hour of their time to talk to localsixth formers at their schools, and without any payment.

An hour listening to a practitioner is worth all the well-meaning careers master guff on offer.

But it won't happen, because school see their responsibilities ending on the day of the A level results. Beyond that, it's not their problem.

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What I can't understand is why these graduates complain about low paid jobs.

They've just been earning around MINUS £20k for the last couple of years. These kids need to get out there and work at companies where they can learn real skills for what they'd probably consider peanuts but is actually very high wages compared to what they've just been earning and got nowhere.

I guess they complain because they've been sold a lie that they'll be set up for life - that there's a market for them out there.. They probably thought the huge debt repayments would be offset by higher pay.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind so much about low pay if they'd left school at 16 or 18.

Also, few employers really invest in skills these days, do they? You'd probably turn moron in most offices.

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Students make degree choices with a staggering lack of knowledge of the field of employment they think they want to enter.

Schools are incapable of giving careers advice about many media sectors, and make no effort to get professionals in to give an insider's view. There isn't 'a slot in the timetable available' is the reply I've been given. Any suggestion of after-school, informal talks by chosen sector professionals is countered with stuff about 'parents' routines collecting their kids' or 'school bus arrival times'.

I'm certain there are dozens of retired or active professionals in every career area who would willingly give up an hour of their time to talk to localsixth formers at their schools, and without any payment.

An hour listening to a practitioner is worth all the well-meaning careers master guff on offer.

But it won't happen, because school see their responsibilities ending on the day of the A level results. Beyond that, it's not their problem.

I was speaking to a pro photographer that started out in the late 80s and he was actually telling me that he's gone into Unis to talk to photography students as part of their course. He said he found the whole thing bizarre as for him it was a matter of take pictures, learn photography, do some local press work, move into commercial studio work by assisting then doing it himself. He had no idea what a full-time three year degree course was possibly going to go other than keep them away from where they needed to be.

Edited by CrashedOutAndBurned
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It takes a long time to dispell popupular myths.

Some aged 20 now will have parents maybe of forties to fifties. For these people going to uni was a great benefit. So its hardly surprising that they are being brainwashed into thinking it is a good idea and told by their parents that university is essential.

When the current lots kids (20-30 years time) come along it might be a bit different.

Ditto with housing being an investment that can't go wrong. One reason why the BOMAD has been so forthcoming with funds.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15722022

Listen to this graduate's breezy tone. She obviously had no idea what her job prospects were. She graduates then quite fancies working in publishing and the 'media sector' - two areas that are competitive and many of the entry-levels roles are done by trustarfarians working for free or very low pay.

It wasn't much different when I graduated over 10 years ago - aside from those that did teacher training no one attained a 'graduate' job after their first degree.

depends what degree you do - many people I know did get "graduate" jobs straight away after graduating 10 years ago. But they had done engineering or science degrees.

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Students make degree choices with a staggering lack of knowledge of the field of employment they think they want to enter.

Schools are incapable of giving careers advice about many media sectors, and make no effort to get professionals in to give an insider's view. There isn't 'a slot in the timetable available' is the reply I've been given. Any suggestion of after-school, informal talks by chosen sector professionals is countered with stuff about 'parents' routines collecting their kids' or 'school bus arrival times'.

I'm certain there are dozens of retired or active professionals in every career area who would willingly give up an hour of their time to talk to localsixth formers at their schools, and without any payment.

An hour listening to a practitioner is worth all the well-meaning careers master guff on offer.

But it won't happen, because school see their responsibilities ending on the day of the A level results. Beyond that, it's not their problem.

My school did have such evenings - local people who worked in various professions came in and talked one on one to any students who wanted to. This was a private school though, so perhaps the staff a different attitude to the job than those in state schools?

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I was speaking to a pro photographer that started out in the late 80s and he was actually telling me that he's gone into Unis to talk to photography students as part of their course. He said he found the whole thing bizarre as for him it was a matter of take pictures, learn photography, do some local press work, move into commercial studio work by assisting then doing it himself. He had no idea what a full-time three year degree course was possibly going to go other than keep them away from where they needed to be.

Yes, most Uni's do bring in professionals, but my point is that advice is needed much earlier. That is, at the point students are selecting the degree courses they want to pursue. We need informed choices of career direction, then at least students (and the Bank of Mum and Dad) choosing 'high risk' courses like Media have no one else to blame when the jobs don't materialise three years later.

General advice from teachers that 'Media is competitive' goes in one ear and out the other, because all youngsters tend to think that they are individually 'special'; that their unique talents will be quickly recognised, and that they will end up as Directing, Producing, Presenting or whatever.

There are 20 eighteen year olds heading for media-related degrees for every actual media job out there. Film and TV in particular ( the 'glamour' trades) are relatively small industries heavily reliant on freelance and short term contract workers.

Working in 'The Media' attracts more bedroom fantasising than any other career, excepting perhaps 'DJ-ing' or 'being in a band'. I never heard of anyone fantasising about being an Actuary, or working in Health and Safety. The fantasies need to be dispelled long before fifty grand debt choices are being made.

I agree with your pro photographer - many three-year courses could be done in one full year. But then you wouldn't have that oh-so-desirable "Uni experience", would you?

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The entire generation has been sold a pup as far as university is concerned. There was a graduate on Newsnight last night (Media Studies), who said that from her entire cohort of 100, only one person had found employment in an area that was even close to what they'd studied. There simply is not the need for number of graduates that the universities produce each year, especially in subjects like Media Studies. I fear for my own kids' futures, and their generation. At least there's another seven years before my son finishes school, hopefully we'll at least be able to see the start of the road to recovery by then ...

The metric should not be "do they get jobs in media", but "do they get graduate level jobs at all". e.g. I did physics and I bet less than 1% of my peers work as physicists doing

physics research. I also bet most of them (of the ones that got 1st or 2:1 at least) have had good careers so far in other fields.

Of my PhD peers who graduated at same time as me I know for a fact all of them got good jobs outside physics research straight away. So I don't think it can be the subject matter that is important, but the skills gained during the degree which you then sell as being useful for other activities.

Hence even though most people who study physics cannot get jobs as physicists (the country does not want many scientists), they can get other good jobs.

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Yes, most Uni's do bring in professionals, but my point is that advice is needed much earlier. That is, at the point students are selecting the degree courses they want to pursue. We need informed choices of career direction, then at least students (and the Bank of Mum and Dad) choosing 'high risk' courses like Media have no one else to blame when the jobs don't materialise three years later.

General advice from teachers that 'Media is competitive' goes in one ear and out the other, because all youngsters tend to think that they are individually 'special'; that their unique talents will be quickly recognised, and that they will end up as Directing, Producing, Presenting or whatever.

There are 20 eighteen year olds heading for media-related degrees for every actual media job out there. Film and TV in particular ( the 'glamour' trades) are relatively small industries heavily reliant on freelance and short term contract workers.

Working in 'The Media' attracts more bedroom fantasising than any other career, excepting perhaps 'DJ-ing' or 'being in a band'. I never heard of anyone fantasising about being an Actuary, or working in Health and Safety. The fantasies need to be dispelled long before fifty grand debt choices are being made.

I agree with your pro photographer - many three-year courses could be done in one full year. But then you wouldn't have that oh-so-desirable "Uni experience", would you?

Right. I think part of the problem too is the long hours boring stress-fest that many 18 year olds see their parents involved in and couldn't possibly see themselves putting up with it. I've actually worked in various journalism and communications and media workplaces and most of it is just office drudgery anyway - the end product is marginally more interesting that, say, baked beans but perhaps not by all that much. And you only need to be around 'media people' for five minutes before all you can think of is the word 'w**ker' anyway.

I think with shorter commutes and a strict 35 hour week they could do scratch their creative itches in their spare time. I know lots of 'tortured artists' locked in dull jobs that are too tired to lift up their Telecaster, pen or paintbrush at the end of the marathon day.

I mean, work life balance is trashed and everyone's milked like a cow in a factory farm. It ain't great.

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According to my friend in the Netherlands - this is what most people there do. Come 5pm everyone leaves to go home to family, pursue hobbies like being in a band etc.

That said I think the average 20 something could easily do a full 12 hours and still have enough energy to pursue other interests. I certainly managed it (still do most of the time). You can see your day job as a means to end - it doesn't have to become the end itself.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15722022

It wasn't much different when I graduated over 10 years ago - aside from those that did teacher training no one attained a 'graduate' job after their first degree.

Isn't it utterly immoral that schools are still peddling the idea that a degree sets you up for life and saddling people with vast debts?

It's not just at degree level.

Look at the vast numbers of hairdressers and nursery workers being churned out by every local college in the country.

Only to find that there are not nearly enough jobs for anything other than a tiny fraction of them and what jobs there are will pay NMW for the rest of their days.

As for the arts...

Ffs - how many photographers or TV presenters do we need?

What should happen is that the polytechnics and technical colleges should come back.

Courses should be things like, PCB fabrication, Plastic extrusion, mechanical engineering, production engineering, embedded software design etc etc

Oh! And they should bring back a dedicated channel similar to the OU where they have non stop programs teaching people, C, Java, HTML, electronics design etc etc

But it wont happen because all the above is for geeks and low-lives wearing blue overalls.

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Yes, it's all about getting a foot in the door same as it ever was. It's a myth that 'everything needs a degree now' - if you're some energetic kid that weasels his way into sweeping floors in the right place you'll get the opening.

Maybe not the best example but Rebekah Brooks started as a secretary at News International and ended up as CEO.

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In that series, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15722019 the mum is going on about how difficult to get a job (that would suit her hours) and how poor she is and how grim her situation is. At the same time she is sitting in a nice house in central london with a nice laptop, stereo and sofa.

Im sure there are quite a lot of people in other countries (esp in Africa) who would love to live her life of 'poverty'.

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My school did have such evenings - local people who worked in various professions came in and talked one on one to any students who wanted to. This was a private school though, so perhaps the staff a different attitude to the job than those in state schools?

That's exactly what I'd like to see instituted across the board. And I'm certain the expertise is out there for free, and just waiting to be invited to contribute. It's just disinterest on the part of most schools not to provide kids with access to industry professionals. Listening to a series of specific sector pro's would sharpen up/refresh the knowledge base of most careers teachers. A valuable bonus.

Edited by juvenal
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