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Euro Zone Rescue Fund May Not Reach 1 Trillion Euros Maybe Only 800Bn Now..

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45254577/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/#.Tr1uh_L3HIU

Political turmoil in Italy and Greece is complicating efforts to increase the firepower of the euro zone's bailout vehicle to 1 trillion euros, an official at the European Financial Stability Facility said on Friday.

Euro zone countries had hoped to increase the EFSF's lending capacity by December, combining bond insurance with investment vehicles. But after the government in Athens fell and bond markets pushed Rome to the brink of a bailout that the euro zone cannot afford to give, the Luxembourg-based EFSF thinks it may be more realistic to aim for less leverage.

"The political turmoil that we saw in the last 10 days probably reduces the potential for leverage, so that may be only by three to four times, instead of four to five," the EFSF source said.

Investors have shunned bonds issued by highly indebted euro zone countries and luring them back by offering insurance on losses, the centerpiece of a plan agreed in Brussels late last month, would probably use up more of the fund's resources.

After deducting the EFSF's existing emergency funding programs, the rescue fund has 250 million euros ($340 billion) to leverage.

This is just too funny for words so the initial leverage scenario gave you between 1tr or 1.25tr, although I'm guessing that too is a widely optimistic guess.

Now the fund will possible only have 750bn to 1tr. What's the betting it's nearer the lower funding level or turns out to be even less.

The even better news this is no where near enough to roll Italy over that needs 300bn next year.

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Investors have shunned bonds issued by highly indebted euro zone countries and luring them back by offering insurance on losses, the centerpiece of a plan agreed in Brussels late last month, would probably use up more of the fund's resources.
So who provides the insurance? It must be some body which has the funds to pay up if the losses happen? So why does that body (with sufficient funds to offer insurance) not just buy the bonds or provide the funds to the bailout fund? Unless the insurance is an empty promise? There is something fishy going on here, methinks. :unsure:

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This is just too funny for words so the initial leverage scenario gave you between 1tr or 1.25tr, although I'm guessing that too is a widely optimistic guess.

Now the fund will possible only have 750bn to 1tr. What's the betting it's nearer the lower funding level or turns out to be even less.

The even better news this is no where near enough to roll Italy over that needs 300bn next year.

Hate to nit pick over such a small amount but wasn't it going to be 2 trillion to start with? That was the figure bandied about before a meeting that then stated 1 or 1.25 trillion.

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Hate to nit pick over such a small amount but wasn't it going to be 2 trillion to start with? That was the figure bandied about before a meeting that then stated 1 or 1.25 trillion.

I think they where hoping no one would notice :)

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I think they where hoping no one would notice :)

I think they may be hoping for short term memory loss too. It was only three weeks or so ago.

From Wall Street Journal blog, October 18

Stocks Through the Roof on Report of 2 Trillion Euro EFSF

Here we go again. The Guardian is reporting that France and Germany have agreed to boost the EFSF to 2 trillion euros, and the stock market is off to the races.

Where are they going to get these 2 trillion euros? From the euro tree?

Here’s the top of the Guardian story:

France and Germany have reached agreement to boost the eurozone’s rescue fund to €2tn as part of a “comprehensive plan” to resolve the sovereign debt crisis that the eurozone summit should endorse this weekend, EU diplomats said.

And yet — there are thin details in the story about how this is going to be structured, financed, etc.

Never mind, just buy stocks. Especially bank stocks, the biggest beneficiaries of these euro-fluff rumor rallies. Bank of America is up 10% at last check.

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The European Finance Stability Fund was announced to stabilise the markets. Its actually a huge big lie. Having made public statements that the banks will take a 50% haircut on greek debt it was later revealed that not one single bank had agreed to it and that remains the case today. The stability fund of 1tr Euros announced was also work in progress which had designs of the Chinese using their soveriegn wealth funds to finance it. However after spending a couple of days in China the answer was a resounding NO.

So in essence the real truth behind all of this charade of smoke and mirrors is that Greece is going to be given the push, as is the case with Italy. There is no fund currently in place however the reports that there is a fund in progress is keeping the markets happy whilst the backroom boys work out how to cast off the dead wood without crashing their own markets.

What we are seeing here is massively under reported and hugely missunderstood. We are seeing the breakup of the European Union and its going to be very very messy with lots of finger pointing, and huge civil disobedience that is effectively going to border on anarchy.

Hopefully the UK has a contingency plan when the time comes to shut the borders and bring the UK back into the real world.

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yes, but they've been saying that for ages now.

they love each other too much

actually, even if they introduce the 20trn efsf squared fund, it won't actually fix anything, in fact it will make things a lot more difficult to fix.

politicians are daft

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The European Finance Stability Fund was announced to stabilise the markets. Its actually a huge big lie. Having made public statements that the banks will take a 50% haircut on greek debt it was later revealed that not one single bank had agreed to it and that remains the case today. The stability fund of 1tr Euros announced was also work in progress which had designs of the Chinese using their soveriegn wealth funds to finance it. However after spending a couple of days in China the answer was a resounding NO.

So in essence the real truth behind all of this charade of smoke and mirrors is that Greece is going to be given the push, as is the case with Italy. There is no fund currently in place however the reports that there is a fund in progress is keeping the markets happy whilst the backroom boys work out how to cast off the dead wood without crashing their own markets.

What we are seeing here is massively under reported and hugely missunderstood. We are seeing the breakup of the European Union and its going to be very very messy with lots of finger pointing, and huge civil disobedience that is effectively going to border on anarchy.

Hopefully the UK has a contingency plan when the time comes to shut the borders and bring the UK back into the real world.

Not sure if it as clear cut in regards the end game, banking placemen have been parachuted into top position in these countries, they must have a fix in mind, but it could go a number of routes. I reckon they will still try and bluff out austerity to keep the whole edifice together whilst trying to keep the popualtions af all countries involved in the dark as much as possible as to the scale and real cause and fault that led to the current situation.

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Not sure if it as clear cut in regards the end game, banking placemen have been parachuted into top position in these countries, they must have a fix in mind, but it could go a number of routes. I reckon they will still try and bluff out austerity to keep the whole edifice together whilst trying to keep the popualtions af all countries involved in the dark as much as possible as to the scale and real cause and fault that led to the current situation.

this is the shocking truth tbh, the only thing wrong is that there is no fix apart from lowering costs and cutting back to the stone age.

you either do this relatively quickly by defaulting on everything or you slowly grind away for decades.

obviously, the people in power prefer the latter as they get to keep gold plated salaries and pensions.

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this is the shocking truth tbh, the only thing wrong is that there is no fix apart from lowering costs and cutting back to the stone age.

you either do this relatively quickly by defaulting on everything or you slowly grind away for decades.

obviously, the people in power prefer the latter as they get to keep gold plated salaries and pensions.

Yes, status quo - all been set up by and for the primary nenefit of the few - look at the gravy trains in politics and the hangers on and lobby systems in place in the guise of normal corporate activity. the latest CBU missive is a casse in point just how wayward things are. they'll have a hell of a job both hiding the damage and the cause though.

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Not sure if it as clear cut in regards the end game, banking placemen have been parachuted into top position in these countries, they must have a fix in mind, but it could go a number of routes. I reckon they will still try and bluff out austerity to keep the whole edifice together whilst trying to keep the popualtions af all countries involved in the dark as much as possible as to the scale and real cause and fault that led to the current situation.

I think we can all look upon these banking placement as the liquidators sent in to identify the key assets and liabilities before they wind up the company/country.

In my view over the next decade the UK will leave the EU. That process will be driven by the public when they realise that the austerity measures and hardship they are enduring is to bailout other EU nations and the bankers.

The whole worlds economic system is failing, it would be a fool that thinks they could somehow become immune to the effects.

What is happening in the world today whilst Europe is sleeping.

Obama and the worlds real economiies are meeting in Hawaii and creating a free trade area in the Asian Pacific Region that is going to exclude much of Europe and put the US at the forefront of the economic area. So much for standing shoulder to shoulder, the US is casting the sick people of Europe aside and has new friends with money.

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Obama and the worlds real economiies are meeting in Hawaii and creating a free trade area in the Asian Pacific Region that is going to exclude much of Europe and put the US at the forefront of the economic area. So much for standing shoulder to shoulder, the US is casting the sick people of Europe aside and has new friends with money.

Agree, it is better when friends all speak the same Universal Language being English, but we turned away from this. ;)

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So who provides the insurance? There is something fishy going on here, methinks. :unsure:

Ask not for whom the bell tolls..

Given that Germany is refusing (at the moment) to allow direct ECB printy printy, the only other way is to take it directly from you and me.

So they will either start mandating that people with savings must put it into bonds (or some other tax on idle savings in some way), or they will use the

to force your goverment to hand over money on demand.. which, given that goverments don't actually have any money, comes from erm.. you and me.

We should not all be best chuffed at all this.

Edit: given that the ESM is planned for mid 2013, the technocrats job is to keep the system from collapsing until then. At the point when the ESM is activated, everybody's wealth can then be funelled into the Eurozone, no questions asked.

Edited by sesim

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Ask not for whom the bell tolls..

Given that Germany is refusing (at the moment) to allow direct ECB printy printy, the only other way is to take it directly from you and me.

So they will either start mandating that people with savings must put it into bonds (or some other tax on idle savings in some way), or they will use the

to force your goverment to hand over money on demand.. which, given that goverments don't actually have any money, comes from erm.. you and me.

We should not all be best chuffed at all this.

Edit: given that the ESM is planned for mid 2013, the technocrats job is to keep the system from collapsing until then. At the point when the ESM is activated, everybody's wealth can then be funelled into the Eurozone, no questions asked.

There is in fact a solution however it would be unpalatable to most people. That solution which is currently being considered is to use the enourmous pension funds that are sitting idle in the fund managers accounts. The EU has to convince the fund managers to buy up the bonds which is becoming difficult. Of course what goes on behind closed doors we will never know however it could come to a shove with the fund managers being held to ransom if they dont buy in.

The other plan being bandied about is to extend the retirement age which again would free up trillions across Europe to buy the EFSF bonds.

Currently the ECB is buying up its own debt. An analogy of that is a snake eating its tail until it becomes invisible.

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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