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But all they are printing is debt.

No they are devaluing the fiat currency. The boomers spent like they could live that way for 60 years. Now they are finding out they spent 60 years of cash in 30. It just wasn't apparent until the bubble burst. Now we have to print the next 30 years worth to "cover" the gap which is going to weaken the currency and make us all poorer as reality bites.

Quite amusing really. The super slow car crash continues.

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No they are devaluing the fiat currency. The boomers spent like they could live that way for 60 years. Now they are finding out they spent 60 years of cash in 30. It just wasn't apparent until the bubble burst. Now we have to print the next 30 years worth to "cover" the gap which is going to weaken the currency and make us all poorer as reality bites.

Quite amusing really. The super slow car crash continues.

But we're all gonna print. China will weaken too as the west has no real buying power.

Then...?

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But we're all gonna print. China will weaken too as the west has no real buying power.

Then...?

Not sure China will weaken as much as the west. That competitive devaluation does have a cost. If you have a pension that isn't index linked you are seeing that drop in real terms.

So then.... becomes a big drop in living standards for many as the currency falls, wages and pensions remain static. And this needs to happen because as a country we are living beyond our means. Then perhaps we will focus on things that actually generate wealth for the common good.

edit: the sad thing is that perhaps those most able to pay get the bill rather than those most deserving of paying. And also those who will take at least one election cycle to realise they have paid.

Edited by bmf

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What's Britain's monthly deficit again? Not that I'm suggesting any improper relationship.

Trouble is the B of E don't even need to physically print anything. They just make a computer generated credit and transfer it to pay off the debt!! Now, if you or I did that it would be fraud. It is a fraud on us all. It debases our currency.

This mess ain't goin' anywhere! Italy is just the latest focus of markets. It'll be revisiting Spain and Portugal very very soon. Then the next probelm bubbling along is France...will they or won't they lose their AAA rating? Their debts are not pretty. Even Germany's are high and growing, yet they are supposed to be able to save the whole Eurozone. WELL LET ME TELL YOU NOW. THEY CAN'T. Nor will this ESF which has no money in it that is real or not borrowed in itself. The longer this pretence goes on the greater the damage and the higher the cost.

If you imagine that a year ago, all this Italy problem was well known. They were in the PIIGS right? If they had addressed their structural deficit a yr ago, they could have had a chance of controlling it. The only bright spot is that their structural deficit is lower than many at about 5%. Too late now. Nothing to do with Berlusconi being still in power. He has said he'll go and the markets carried on lifting the borrowing rate beyond 7%. All pension funds have to bail out of Italian bonds at that rate or more si. nce it is perceived as high risk and bonds are bought to be low risk parts of the portfolio.

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Trouble is the B of E don't even need to physically print anything. They just make a computer generated credit and transfer it to pay off the debt!! Now, if you or I did that it would be fraud. It is a fraud on us all. It debases our currency.

This mess ain't goin' anywhere! Italy is just the latest focus of markets. It'll be revisiting Spain and Portugal very very soon. Then the next probelm bubbling along is France...will they or won't they lose their AAA rating? Their debts are not pretty. Even Germany's are high and growing, yet they are supposed to be able to save the whole Eurozone. WELL LET ME TELL YOU NOW. THEY CAN'T. Nor will this ESF which has no money in it that is real or not borrowed in itself. The longer this pretence goes on the greater the damage and the higher the cost.

If you imagine that a year ago, all this Italy problem was well known. They were in the PIIGS right? If they had addressed their structural deficit a yr ago, they could have had a chance of controlling it. The only bright spot is that their structural deficit is lower than many at about 5%. Too late now. Nothing to do with Berlusconi being still in power. He has said he'll go and the markets carried on lifting the borrowing rate beyond 7%. All pension funds have to bail out of Italian bonds at that rate or more si. nce it is perceived as high risk and bonds are bought to be low risk parts of the portfolio.

exactly, Italy=toast, then France=toast etc. lots of toast, in fact nothing but toast. The only way to slow the mad toaster is the masively virtual EFSF. But that just puts it on pause for a while at best.

It is so frustrating every day to see more and more money being wasted, money that will never be seen again.

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exactly, Italy=toast, then France=toast etc. lots of toast, in fact nothing but toast. The only way to slow the mad toaster is the masively virtual EFSF. But that just puts it on pause for a while at best.

It is so frustrating every day to see more and more money being wasted, money that will never be seen again.

I watched that 'V For Vendetta' film the other night. There was a ver tasty bit of toast in that - friend bread with a fried egg in the centre.

OK, nothing for you lot but all these talk of toast is making us gluten intolerance lot hungry.

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Sign of the times - we used to have prediction threads about Halifax data out the next day. Now we have predictive threads about how much more funny money Merve & co will print tomorrow :ph34r:

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exactly, Italy=toast, then France=toast etc. lots of toast, in fact nothing but toast. The only way to slow the mad toaster is the masively virtual EFSF. But that just puts it on pause for a while at best.

It is so frustrating every day to see more and more money being wasted, money that will never be seen again.

The money has seen the light of day. It's been pissed up the wall over the past 20 years. That money was spent and was marked down to be paid "in the future".

This is backfilling a hole that we didn't appreciate the size of. The UK will have this problem in spades because we have a massive private debt plus a lot of people who think they are wealthy due to an overpriced asset that will most likely deflate. I reckon they'll print like mad to protect the assets (not in real terms) and go for a soft default.

The future <---- you are here

Edited by bmf

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Sign of the times - we used to have prediction threads about Halifax data out the next day. Now we have predictive threads about how much more funny money Merve & co will print tomorrow :ph34r:

Black Thursdayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

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Sign of the times - we used to have prediction threads about Halifax data out the next day. Now we have predictive threads about how much more funny money Merve & co will print tomorrow :ph34r:

...or which country is going to default next!

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Please excuse my ignorance on this but if the ECB does fire up the printing press to bail out Italy et al whats does that mean for the credibility of the Euro?

It will become credible to those in the front line.

If they don't, it won't.

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The countries in control of their currency never have to default. And the interest rate they pay is irrelevant. China may not like this fact, but paying back the money (provided you have control over the currency) is just an accounting entry. A couple of bilion created, to pay back the debt, with no more than the swipe of a pen (presumably some lone soul out there has to approve it) and a few keystrokes on the computer.

And it has the additional sweetener of being able to exert better control over the population. People who earn more than they actually require are hard to control. They might buy guns and try to overthrow the government. or keep collecting their pension, but from the south of France, depriving the Exchequer of a second bite of their income as it goes through the cash register. But people whose currency is so worthless they have to stay at home and spend it are captive. Hostages to poverty in their own land. They can't afford to leave and, as the currency value drops will be forced to ditch any consumption of imported goods, which they can no longer afford.

There are quite a few upsides of this scenario. We'd all be healthier. On the 27 days we couldn't afford to run our car each month we would have to walk. Stargazers would be able to see more because there would be so few cars running around. We'd all learn a new skill - knitting - so we could make ourselves thick wool socks and mittens, due to not being able to afford to run the heating.

The countries who joined the Euro are a bit crazy, because they gave up control of setting their credit card limits.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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