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eric pebble

The Debt Trap Time Bomb: Good Old Jeff Randall Says It All

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It is the scandal of which we no longer speak. Like a mad aunt in the attic,..

Why should it have to be an aunt.

It's more likely to be uncles Cameron, Clegg, Milliband and King (face it folks, King's always up there in the attic).

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Why should it have to be an aunt.

It's more likely to be uncles Cameron, Clegg, Milliband and King (face it folks, King's always up there in the attic).

What happened to great uncle Gordon?

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This govt are buying (or trying to) the next election with the cynical use of private debt.

The last one did so with public debt.

Both pretty bad, but in the former case you have a choice, if you're brainy enough to realise (ie not an overpromoted teacher developing your btl portfolio)

Edited by Si1

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The worrying thing is that there is no choice. Private debt=public debt. Socialise the losses and all that. Capitalism 2013=Socialism but with the redistribution of wealth from taxation in the other direction.

Edited by campervanman

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The worrying thing is that there is no choice. Private debt=public debt. Socialise the losses and all that. Capitalism 2013=Socialism but with the redistribution of wealth from taxation in the other direction.

+1

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Consumption is a symptom of economic growth - not a cause of it. Growth comes from saving, investing and building up capital. Not pissing money away on the latest style of haircut.

Sorry, you have got that completely backwards, growth comes only from increasing debt or printing money (the former being a deferring of the latter). Saving is only the hoarding of debt, and forces others to take on more debt to compensate.

What exactly would you save if you only had the money form 1974 to play with........ All inflation since then is born of debt.

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Sorry, you have got that completely backwards, growth comes only from increasing debt or printing money (the former being a deferring of the latter). Saving is only the hoarding of debt, and forces others to take on more debt to compensate.

What exactly would you save if you only had the money form 1974 to play with........ All inflation since then is born of debt.

.......only because the system creates inflation purposely so that they can borrow against it.....inflation only exists because they intentionally create it that way. ;)

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He knows that it’s crazy for over-borrowed households to carry on spending money they do not have. Yet, in his desperation to kick start a stalling economy, he dare not recommend prudence. At some point, the truth will out: in order to slay the Debt Monster, retrenchment and hardship are unavoidable. Faced with the Paradox of Thrift, consumers should look after their families first

Indeed and people should also be concerned about the Paradox of Spendthrift.

It was a laugh (almost) yesterday to hear how Milliband wouldn't be reversing the austerity cuts for the first 2 years if they got back in power. So like Labour before the 1997 general election.

Edited by billybong

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This govt are buying (or trying to) the next election with the cynical use of private debt.

The last one did so with public debt.

Both pretty bad, but in the former case you have a choice, if you're brainy enough to realise (ie not an overpromoted teacher developing your btl portfolio)

Ironically you are right in your analysis of what they want to do, but the reality is the opposite is true. Nulab presided over an unprecendented increase in private debt. The tories are OTOH vastly increasing public debt, private debt is stagnant and just wont budge.

Not that it matters, any establishment politician will just do what Gordon did and nationalize private debts onto savers/taxpayers (and give it a nicer name like a 'guarantee' scheme)

Edited by Executive Sadman

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This govt are buying (or trying to) the next election with the cynical use of private debt.

No- what they are doing is using public debt to underwrite private debt-that's what help to sell buy is all about.

But as someone has pointed out already in the end all private debt ends up being public debt since there's no way that the people holding all the private IOU's will be allowed to take a loss.

In reality all governments are now socialist governments- the only difference being that some redistribute taxes to the rich while others to the poor. Either way if you are neither rich or poor than the sucker at the table is you.

Edited by wonderpup

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The worrying thing is that there is no choice. Private debt=public debt. Socialise the losses and all that. Capitalism 2013=Socialism but with the redistribution of wealth from taxation in the other direction.

That's what Cameron means by "we're all in this together". When his city friends look like losing money, the government just takes from the rest of us to make good the losses. We certainly aren't in in together when they get the seven figure bonuses.

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The introduction of credit is what has allowed spiraling education costs. Without it, universities would be dull and grimy but cheap instead of having flashy expensive buildings et al.

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Not really. My daughter who had the misfortune to start college the first year of the massively increased fees and loans is having it stuffed down her neck with a compulsory hike in rates too of rpi+3% and no option to default. Most of them will start working life with debts of around £35,000-£50,000 I would guess and if they do not pay the interest cost every year, it will quickly compound to becoming an unpayable debt for life.

You could say they can choose not to go to college and strictly speaking you would be correct. But the minimum requirements just to be considered these days have gone thru' the roof. It's like 3G auctions - you had to be in it or you were no longer a telecoms company.

Whilst it is probably right that individuals pay for their own education, action needs to be taken to stop grade and qualification inflation.

Secondly, the constant lifting the rung on the ladder without making the whole of society share in any changes must stop - it has divided the generations completely.

The RPI + formula for student debt is 100% theft.

It's a guaranteed cash handout to the financiers.

Zero risk (illegal to default) and guaranteed insanely massive carry.

Compare it to the rate on a car loan which is a depreciating 'asset' which can be defaulted or even some personal loan rates.

So you Gidiot literally stealing from 18 year olds to hand out to his property developer Tory chums.

In any normal society that would be called extortion. In the corrupt UK stealing to give to the City is the business model.

Stinks.

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Not really. My daughter who had the misfortune to start college the first year of the massively increased fees and loans is having it stuffed down her neck with a compulsory hike in rates too of rpi+3% and no option to default. Most of them will start working life with debts of around £35,000-£50,000 I would guess and if they do not pay the interest cost every year, it will quickly compound to becoming an unpayable debt for life.

You could say they can choose not to go to college and strictly speaking you would be correct. But the minimum requirements just to be considered these days have gone thru' the roof. It's like 3G auctions - you had to be in it or you were no longer a telecoms company.

Whilst it is probably right that individuals pay for their own education, action needs to be taken to stop grade and qualification inflation.

Secondly, the constant lifting the rung on the ladder without making the whole of society share in any changes must stop - it has divided the generations completely.

Come on.. it is not really a debt but a tax. Going abroad after graduation would probably be the best solution

Also - most unis that are worth going to offers significant means tested bulsary - is this applicable in your case ?

Given how much the 2nd rated unis are paying its staff - we can do some deflation in HE pay.

http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/job/4663126/associate-director-registry-services/?INTCMP=JB2_EDUCATION_EDUCATION

Leeds Metropolitan University

Student Administration Services

Associate Director – Registry Services

Grade 10, £53,233 - £63,846

Edited by easy2012

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For the now majority of young people the further education as it stands is a rip-off....it is a monopolisation of education, with few choices that would allow people to shop around for value, excellence and price, few choices in the way it can be paid for, for most no choice in how it may be paid for and in some cases only open to a selective few with more influence and money than others that are just as able, intelligent and capable.

The system stinks quite frankly it is not fit for purpose the way it is set up at the moment.........the only ones that win are those that will go on to work in the universities, become doctors, teachers and the like ( we can't all be doctors ) or are in the know.......it is who you know.....and what you learn is not always what many employers require that you should know....so you learn what you don't necessarily need to learn, three or more of the most important years of your life have passed you by and you begin a working life in negative territory in a very competitive market holding a diluted degree.

So to suggest that people go abroad to get out of paying the cost back confirms it even more that university for so many does not work......to be honest it would be better to go abroad and learn something far more worthwhile and come back not so saddled up with future financial commitments that will for a growing number of people will be a drag on their prosperity not a financial benefit to them....imo.

What people need and want are paying jobs....not an education that costs a lot and still no paying worthwhile job at the end of it, only the debt left to pay. ;)

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At least this situation means no HPI in the future? These students will not be able to afford a house.

They will introduce 40 year+ mortgages as they will not be retiring before they are 80.

Or inter-generational mortgages.

As long as the amount of debt increases the government does not care.

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Not really. My daughter who had the misfortune to start college the first year of the massively increased fees and loans is having it stuffed down her neck with a compulsory hike in rates too of rpi+3% and no option to default. Most of them will start working life with debts of around £35,000-£50,000 I would guess and if they do not pay the interest cost every year, it will quickly compound to becoming an unpayable debt for life.

You could say they can choose not to go to college and strictly speaking you would be correct. But the minimum requirements just to be considered these days have gone thru' the roof. It's like 3G auctions - you had to be in it or you were no longer a telecoms company.

Whilst it is probably right that individuals pay for their own education, action needs to be taken to stop grade and qualification inflation.

Secondly, the constant lifting the rung on the ladder without making the whole of society share in any changes must stop - it has divided the generations completely.

I agree, what is happening just now is rather depressing. I would hazard a guess that most of our MP's paid no fees for their university degrees and many probably also received a grant (I was on a course with a guy who was very obviously loaded, had attended Harrow or something, yet his parents' accountant fiddled things so he qualified for a full grant - he admitted as much himself).

The perverse logic of 50% of people going to University is not only costing our young people more but even worse has devalued

degrees to the extent where once you needed a degree to get a job, you now need a PhD or a Masters. Many jobs are now 'graduate only' even though they appear to mostly require skills that can be had without a degree.

If I had kids there are few degrees I would suggest they do, only maybe Medicine, Law and some Engineering maybe are really in demand enough to ever guarantee a salary that will enable them to afford to pay of their debts and get set up in life.

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  • 292 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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