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Has this been posted before?

Have a read of some of the real life stories people have posted on this website, things look much worse in America than here but we can't be far behind them.

There is a bigger gap in America between the haves and have nots.

In most films that we get from hollywood they are nearly always high profil Doctors , lawyers living in massive houses or the penthouse apartment . The reality for many is very different. The loss of a job can send someone living a very good middle class life to the streets very quickely .

Have seen documentries time and again of the poverty and lack of hope. Homeless familys putting their kids with relatives and living on the streets and in tent citys is common.

Are we going the same way ? Who knows.

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http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

Has this been posted before?

Have a read of some of the real life stories people have posted on this website, things look much worse in America than here but we can't be far behind them.

I posted it in the latter pages of the occupy London thread - the young and old have been screwed by the system.

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I posted it in the latter pages of the occupy London thread - the young and old have been screwed by the system.

I've read about 20 of them, and most come across as complete whiners who resent other's success, ambition and ability to dig in and get on, whilst they're stuck in a rut. Or who've put themselves in vulnerable positions in the first place through their own decisions.

At some point in the future, I'll be buying a cheap house from one of these sorts of people complaining about being tens of thousands in negative equity or swamped with other debts, in part, because I saved up for years, keep all my costs down including no ifone type toys and contracts, took no debt. Got no money? Then f off. Even couch surfing or lodging isn't so bad as some of them complain.

Edit png [image won't hotlink]

If he had any sense he'd have saved and wouldn't need nor want bank loan to get his business off the ground. Especially if he's so good and not just a level-editor only. Or is he plugging his music. Find a way. I'm not paying for your fanciful expectations in life.

Edited by Venger

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Really worth a look. Thanks for posting.

My story is very similar to some of those.

The Depression is here, and it has been for a number of years. It's hitting the young first, and it's spreading upwards.

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I've read about 20 of them, and most come across as complete whiners who resent other's success, ambition and ability to dig in and get on, whilst they're stuck in a rut. Or who've put themselves in vulnerable positions in the first place through their own decisions.

At some point in the future, I'll be buying a cheap house from one of these sorts of people complaining about being tens of thousands in negative equity or swamped with other debts, in part, because I saved up for years, keep all my costs down including no ifone type toys and contracts, took no debt. Got no money? Then f off. Even couch surfing or lodging isn't so bad as some of them complain.

Edit png [image won't hotlink]

If he had any sense he'd have saved and wouldn't need nor want bank loan to get his business off the ground. Especially if he's so good and not just a level-editor only. Or is he plugging his music. Find a way. I'm not paying for your fanciful expectations in life.

Oh dear another one who hasn't got it yet. I seem to post this video every other day in response to posts like this.

To be honest if you haven't got it yet you probably never will, but nevertheless, here it is :

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'Middle class' has a fundamentally different meaning in the USA compared to the UK.

Well you didn't watch it til the end then.

The point she makes is that 80% used to be middle class in the usa, with all the lifestyle stuff you'd expect, it's going to shrink

In the UK I bet you think it's based on accent and place of birth. Well, I'm posh, I was born in Hampshire and I know which knife and fork to use. I'm poor I live in Yorkshire, I earn 27k and as a single parent with 3 children I get benefits (which I magically turn into gold every month, for I don't need them yet), so what class am I ?

I'll tell you. Working class and Middle class ARE THE SAME THING.

The alternatives are Rich / moneyed / bankers / corporate scum

and Poor / workshy / gypsy / benefit scum.

We are the 80% in the middle. And we pay for the rest.

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Oh dear another one who hasn't got it yet. I seem to post this video every other day in response to posts like this.

Always worth another posting. It looks like Elizabeth Warren has a good chance of getting elected to the US Senate next year - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Massachusetts,_2012

http://www.elizabethwarren.com/

Edited by thecrashingisles

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Well you didn't watch it til the end then.

The point she makes is that 80% OF ONLY THE WHITES used to be middle class in the usa, with all the lifestyle stuff you'd expect, it's going to shrink

Corrected.

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There is a bigger gap in America between the haves and have nots.

In most films that we get from hollywood they are nearly always high profil Doctors , lawyers living in massive houses or the penthouse apartment . The reality for many is very different. The loss of a job can send someone living a very good middle class life to the streets very quickely .

Have seen documentries time and again of the poverty and lack of hope. Homeless familys putting their kids with relatives and living on the streets and in tent citys is common.

Are we going the same way ? Who knows.

Yes, we are.

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Oh dear another one who hasn't got it yet. I seem to post this video every other day in response to posts like this.

To be honest if you haven't got it yet you probably never will, but nevertheless, here it is :

Watched it on HPC a couple of months ago, perhaps from your link. You may be the one who posts on the lines the system is really unable to cope and is set to completely break. It's very possible.

Otherwise, declining living standards for some yes, but improved living standards for others, who've prepared for it or who are still positioning themselves to take advantage from the downchange. Including the young. They should be embracing the end of boom and the opportunities it will present in time.

Too many people in the West have been living it way too well for decades anyway. That's the problem. Why should their be riots because we have to accept living standards 3 or 4 times better than the majority in many other countries like China or Vietnam. We can and might have to adjust to it. The UK doesn't rule the world. Pampered and full of entitlement. Marching because they're not good enough to succeed, have spent their money, gotten in to debt and expected boom times forever? Bring it on.

Servicing debt for banks and nations a big problem with declining revenues. And there are still opportunities. The decline creates new business opportunities in itself to make big money, even from low start off investments or through effort and application. Individual cunning as you put it. The 99% photo of the person who wrote they are 'too broke to afford the $2.50 train fare to the protests'. Can't they walk or ride?

In other words, there is no quick fix. The entire structure of our economies must change or we face ruin. Is there the political will to do something about it? Not at the moment, and in my opinion there won't be until poverty has got so bad that our middle classes finally start marching on the streets. By which time, will it be too late? Certainly too late to save our generation from the grips of declining living standards, and probably too late for a generation or two after that.

I hope I'm wrong, but there is a real risk here that we won't see the curve or prosperity rising consistently again in our lifetimes. It's going to take individual cunning and strategy to better oneself financially; Capitalism can't be relied on to pull us all onwards like it did for much of the 20th Century unless it reinvents itself. This is what must happen.

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The ambition of the right-wing think tanks (worldwide) is very much in line with what is happening in the USA now. A consortium of these think tanks got together back in the 1970's and came up with a comon purpose. which included. Deleting unions(by statue law, offshoring work, cheap mass immigration), stopping pay rises in real terms. Setting families up to need 2 wages just to pay their way, and most importantly and key to the whole mess we are in. Liberalising the banks to lend as much as they want, with workers taking on extra debt in order to keep up their living standard. this takes care of that 80%+ people who are now regressing back 100+ years to how 'They' the finacial uppper class like it. Remember also, those who have everything, moneywise, and have run out of things to aquire, still want more, and the thing they want more than anything is the control of people, or even better the ownership of people. I see good reason for the wall street sit in, it covers a multitude of injustices that are now controlling the lives of the majority of people in the world. The USA in particular has gone from being a modern advanced society to the structure of a 3rd world failed economy/society where only there is only very-rich or poor and little in the middle. Lets face it also, in the USA if you are poor (working or not) then you wont get much in the way of medical treatment if you are seriously ill and as many have found out, you can lose everything to pay the bills.

In the UK we have a government that is keen to mimik the USA word for word (not that the previous Labour govt was much better, only they didnt have the ambition to pauperise the less well bred) Notice how the bankers are still sitting on the prime ministers knee? rather than getting their bums spanked? Or that we still have zirp which punishes the poorest with massive inflation while at the same time keeps the bankers in big bonuses?

Im sure this list is endless.

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You St Paul's protesters want what, exactly?

My two comments in the section underneath, pertinent to this

I think it's perfectly fair for people to protest in this way in these circumstances.

Governments are supposed to represent their people - all of them, not just the City.

And Governments are supposed to be capable of really basic stuff, like absolutely essential regulation, planning, common sense, and have some degree of intelligence and independent thinking to prevent themselves and their people from being manipulated and shafted. These politicians are the best we have, apparently, having risen to the top of their professions.

"People" are not required to have these attributes, since they don't profess to seek power. However just because they don't have all the answers (and perhaps, some do, but I don't see the media spelling it all out or doing any decent investigative journalism so people can really see what the intrinsic problems are, and then suggest solutions) doesn't mean they can't rally against the injustices.

To quote from the article:

"And there, in essence, is the problem with this movement, at least in the way that it's currently run – it's composed of the wrong people, with the wrong solutions to very real problems."

Excuse me. How do you know?

If the Government even began to hint at any "solutions" the movement might not exist.

and

I agree with the gist of the article, yes, we do need to know what these activists want. However, I suspect one key reason why there isn't a single defined aim of the campaign is that it is bringing together a whole host of general, stale perceived injustices in so many areas.

Take your pick of: fractional reserve banking, socialism for the elite and capitalism for everyone else, earnings coming not from talent necessarily but the old-boy network and simply because of a privileged position close to the source of, and enabling manipulation of the money supply, 1 in 6 households where nobody works yet every other one has a Sky dish on the roof (I perhaps exaggerate to make the point, this is partly about perceptions), frustration that no political party exists which is prepared to represent either those who believe in socialism or capitalism, rampant disguised inflation, I could go on.

The comments about capitalism (generally, not a dig at you) amuse me. Capitalism requires two primary things: capital and risk. The banks are handed capital, and the risk is borne by wider society. We do not have capitalism. Have a look at what a kleptocracy is.

Whereas the French just down tools and bring their country to a halt when they fear being shafted, we as a society just comply and toe the line. But it doesn't mean the resent isn't there, and bottling that up can be very dangerous when it explodes.

I would suggest that politicians, rather than dismissing this small group of activists as unrepresentative of wider society's feelings and regarding them as a temporary nuisance or a few crack-pots, would do very well to try their hardest to understand precisely what the demonstrators want.

Because, the way this country is going, it isn't going to be just a few activists. Need we reach a point (and I'm neither encouraging, nor condoning this) where people who work in retail banks become afraid to go to work out of fear of bricks coming through the window, or the building being set on fire?

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There won't be a middle class. They'll be just Rich or Poor.

But everyone on HPC has the power to affect their destiny. You've already discovered this site. The first step is to take the red pill, you've already done it - congratulate yourself! You're in the new 1% - you understand the system, you understand the aversary. Do something about it today. Don't give up without a fight.

Whether it is to give up TV, give up supporting your football club, give up watching x-factor, give up your iPhone/iPad, closing your Facebook account, throwing away your Tesco loyalty points cards - start TODAY, and start SMALL. Become self sufficient where possible, and make local networks to get the best deals - your local butcher/farmer etc. Think like the Freemasons, you scratch my back I scratch yours. Alone in a "nuclear family", scared, depressed, unfit, is what they want, so you're dependent on them, the elite. Go visit your grandparents for goodness sake.

You're going to be rich (not necessarily in £ terms) or going to be poor? What's it going to be? Make a decision - SNAP. Don't whine, don't whinge. Just do it.

There's an opportunity to better one's self coming soon, are you going to take it or let it sail on by? Are YOU a caged tiger?

Edited by Money Spinner

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There won't be a middle class. They'll be just Rich or Poor.

But everyone on HPC has the power to affect their destiny. You've already discovered this site. The first step is to take the red pill, you've already done it - congratulate yourself! You're in the new 1% - you understand the system, you understand the aversary. Do something about it today. Don't give up without a fight.

Whether it is to give up TV, give up supporting your football club, give up watching x-factor, give up your iPhone/iPad, closing your Facebook account, throwing away your Tesco loyalty points cards - start TODAY, and start SMALL. Become self sufficient where possible, and make local networks to get the best deals - your local butcher/farmer etc. Think like the Freemasons, you scratch my back I scratch yours. Alone in a "nuclear family", scared, depressed, unfit, is what they want, so you're dependent on them, the elite. Go visit your grandparents for goodness sake.

You're going to be rich (not necessarily in £ terms) or going to be poor? What's it going to be? Make a decision - SNAP. Don't whine, don't whinge. Just do it.

There's an opportunity to better one's self coming soon, are you going to take it or let it sail on by? Are YOU a caged tiger?

Good post. Without being able to be specific, you echo my feelings on the current malaise

I'm willing some sort of massive collapse, reset, implosion on a global scale because I believe it will benefit me and my fiance personally. Not directly, as we'll be affected the same as anyone else through job cuts price inflation etc but we are completely shafted by the current system in that we are hard working law abiding subjects. we have the exact attitude to work that goes unrewarded in wider societal terms, ie we put everything in yet take nothing out.

I don't know exactly how we're going to be better off, but I believe that if there is a shift in how the system operates on a global scale - which really there has to be and it has to be imminent, that we'll finally begin to see the fruits of our labour. What form that takes i'm not sure, being able to afford a deposit for an average house after saving for a couple of years would be a start. :P

The world is upside down, the correction should flush out the parasites at both ends of the spectrum and enable a return to ethical societal values. No more of this something for nothing world which is utterly unsustainable. I welcome a complete crash because I know in an alternate reality, doing the right thing is the right way to live.

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Guest eight

There won't be a middle class. They'll be just Rich or Poor.

But everyone on HPC has the power to affect their destiny. You've already discovered this site. The first step is to take the red pill, you've already done it - congratulate yourself! You're in the new 1% - you understand the system, you understand the aversary. Do something about it today. Don't give up without a fight.

Whether it is to give up TV, give up supporting your football club, give up watching x-factor, give up your iPhone/iPad, closing your Facebook account, throwing away your Tesco loyalty points cards - start TODAY, and start SMALL. Become self sufficient where possible, and make local networks to get the best deals - your local butcher/farmer etc. Think like the Freemasons, you scratch my back I scratch yours. Alone in a "nuclear family", scared, depressed, unfit, is what they want, so you're dependent on them, the elite. Go visit your grandparents for goodness sake.

You're going to be rich (not necessarily in £ terms) or going to be poor? What's it going to be? Make a decision - SNAP. Don't whine, don't whinge. Just do it.

There's an opportunity to better one's self coming soon, are you going to take it or let it sail on by? Are YOU a caged tiger?

Good post. Somebody else summed it up better than I ever could.

"There is a war going on for your mind. If you are thinking, you are winning."

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I've read about 20 of them, and most come across as complete whiners who resent other's success, ambition and ability to dig in and get on, whilst they're stuck in a rut. Or who've put themselves in vulnerable positions in the first place through their own decisions.

At some point in the future, I'll be buying a cheap house from one of these sorts of people complaining about being tens of thousands in negative equity or swamped with other debts, in part, because I saved up for years, keep all my costs down including no ifone type toys and contracts, took no debt. Got no money? Then f off. Even couch surfing or lodging isn't so bad as some of them complain.

Edit png [image won't hotlink]

If he had any sense he'd have saved and wouldn't need nor want bank loan to get his business off the ground. Especially if he's so good and not just a level-editor only. Or is he plugging his music. Find a way. I'm not paying for your fanciful expectations in life.

for some to be winners, those that "dig in" and "get on", there is some wealth someone else is NOT going to get.

which means for every winner there is a loser.

and if the winner wins big time, then the number of losers increases to match.

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One thing that keeps coming up is the cost of housing there. It truly is an evil.

Love the Australian girls' letter saying Oz is great so things CAN be good. She's probably too young to have tried applying for a mortgage...

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Do you think this thing will gain much more ground and start to become something bigger? It does seem like corporate greed (who DOESN'T know a boss/CEO who takes more money every year wjilst everybody else scrapes by) is really getting pounded at.

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Perhaps this is just reality and the effects of globalisation. Look at how poor the rest of the world is... there are too many people and finite resources - perhaps this is just a massive re-balancing.

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Watched it on HPC a couple of months ago, perhaps from your link. You may be the one who posts on the lines the system is really unable to cope and is set to completely break. It's very possible.

Otherwise, declining living standards for some yes, but improved living standards for others, who've prepared for it or who are still positioning themselves to take advantage from the downchange. Including the young. They should be embracing the end of boom and the opportunities it will present in time.

Too many people in the West have been living it way too well for decades anyway. That's the problem. Why should their be riots because we have to accept living standards 3 or 4 times better than the majority in many other countries like China or Vietnam. We can and might have to adjust to it. The UK doesn't rule the world. Pampered and full of entitlement. Marching because they're not good enough to succeed, have spent their money, gotten in to debt and expected boom times forever? Bring it on.

Servicing debt for banks and nations a big problem with declining revenues. And there are still opportunities. The decline creates new business opportunities in itself to make big money, even from low start off investments or through effort and application. Individual cunning as you put it. The 99% photo of the person who wrote they are 'too broke to afford the $2.50 train fare to the protests'. Can't they walk or ride?

Yes, I think on the subject of keeping one's nose clean of debt and not going with the herd (individual cunning) we can agree. But that only takes one so far and to assume that just living within one's means and making intelligent investment or career/business decisions will keep you in the "middle class" (i.e. free from major financial worry) would be naive, in my opinion.

I mean, if we were all to truthfully live within our means, taking into account job security these days then possibly a) No one would have a family and b ) no one would ever buy a house. And of course, for many, this is the reality. But for others, can you really blame them for entering into debt just to fulfill basic human wants and needs? I mean, many on that website are early 20's. How can someone that young be blamed for their own situation? Perhaps a mew'd-up-the-eyeballs-boomer, partly-yes, but a 24 year old?

I don't disagree that there needs to be de-leveraging, but with the de leveraging has to come a new deal for the 99% otherwise we will just end up with more and more of a gap between the 1% and the rest of us fighting for scraps.

If one looks at the figures for the massive increases in household debt and equally massive decrease in household savings, but at the same time the decrease in expenditure for clothes luxury items, you can't blame that on individual failure. That situation is screaming "systemic failure." (By the way, it was your ifone comment that probably won you my reposte, in the main :P )

I should also add, before anyone starts to assume that I mean that "the state" should sort all this out and hand everyone everything they want, I most certainly do not mean that. It's economic growth largely through the free markets that pulls everything along with it and gives you and me opportunities and aspirations.

On that note, it's interesting for me to look back at my situation over the last 10 years or so, as the small business I run largely got off the ground due to the housing bubble. Not directly, but a lot of our clients were directly or indirectly related to the housing market (and still are to a certain extent). Does that justify the bubble? No, as the wider damage far outweighs the benefits it gave to me. But it's interesting to consider how economic bubbles generally give us opportunities. We just need the right sort of bubbles, and when I say bubbles, I really mean sustainable economic growth.

Love the Australian girls' letter saying Oz is great so things CAN be good. She's probably too young to have tried applying for a mortgage...

Yes I noticed that one too. A little odd, considering Oz has a massive housing bubble too. To say that 100% or the 99% are top-of-the-class economically literate would probably be asking too much. I'm happy if the general message is in the right direction though, which it is, in my opinion.

Perhaps this is just reality and the effects of globalisation. Look at how poor the rest of the world is... there are too many people and finite resources - perhaps this is just a massive re-balancing.

Umair Haque has a nice allegory for this:

"Here’s an allegory in miniature. Imagine two worlds: The first is a big world of abundant resources and raw materials, an empty world where demand is infrequent and easily satiated, and a stable world where disasters are infrequent and weak. The second is a tiny world, emptying of raw resources, a crowded world where demand is always hungry, and a fragile world, where contagion of every kind can flow across the globe in a matter of minutes, days, or weeks. A big, empty, stable world is like a vast, placid, untouched game reserve. But a tiny, crowded, and fragile world is like an ark. Industrial era capitalism was built for a big, empty, stable world. But at the dawn of the twenty-first century, the world is more like an ark—tiny, fragile, and crowded"

The task is to re-invent capitalism for this new world.

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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