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pyewackitt

The West Make Fair Weather Friends

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Not house price related directly but a point i would like to raise with all my HPC kin for their consideration and input.

Namely that the modern Western developed countries of the US, UK and Europe make very fair weather friends to those outside our cultural block.

In the last few years we have actively been involved in fighting or supporting fighting against Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. We read papers talking about their evils and how we bring democracy abroad but let us put their positions into context here.

Put this into context:

1) Bin Laden

Operation Cyclone was the US funded initiave to promote radical Islamic fundamentalist movement and arm them in Afgahnistan to fight a proxy war against the Russians towards the end of the Cold War. This programme saw the west pumping funds and training into extremist organisations such as the Mujahideen so that they might fight in a country where western military presence would itself have been provocative. Many ask why the Islamists are so set against the West, it's partly that we helped build them up and when their role was played for us we cut and run. Osama was involved in this according to many sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden.

Bin Laden was killed in 2011 during fighting whilst a US strike team attempted his capture.

2) Hussein

Where Cyclone funded extremists Saddam Hussein was a secular dictator in a fractured tribal country with deep Islamic history. Once again the hand of the CIA is in evidence as some sources claim that Saddam was in CIA pay even before the Baathist party revolution:

"In 1968, Morris says, the CIA encouraged a palace revolt among Baath party elements led by long-time Saddam mentor Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, who would turn over the reins of power to his ambitious protegy in 1979.

"It's a regime that was unquestionably midwived by the United States, and the (CIA's) involvement there was really primary," Morris says. "

(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0420-05.htm).

Not only was this state sponsored takeover but it provided a strong and brutal partner for decades who would act as a proxy agency against the more extreme Iran and be a willing purchaser of weapons from the western military industrial complex to the tune of tens of millions of dollars every year.

Although obviously not a nice fellow the legal basis for the war in Iraq with the now infamous 'WMD' presentation by Colin Powell to the UN only serves to show how tenuous the real arguement was to forceably entering Iraq. Hussein was killed in 2006 by hanging following a war crimes court judgement.

3) Gaddafi

With the death of Gaddafi yesterday it is time to add this to the list of fair weather friends.

Like Hussein Gaddafi brough a secular dictatorship to a country that might otherwise has developed into one of extremism.

Since the bloodless coup that brought him to power in 1969 his relationship with the West was always rocky. From being classed as a supporter of Terrorism in the 70's to becoming a key arms trade partner in the 80's and 90's to Lockerbie - Libya has been a constant element of discussion in International and Foreign Affairs.

U.S. Government documents from this period show that Libya was the country with the most potential for problems in North Africa. United States officials recognized that it did not want to tie the U.S. to the authoritarian and corrupt monarchy of King Idris. The United States recognized the Revolutionary Command Council with Gaddafi at its head, as the new government.
(http://www.pressking.com/press-releases/Qaddafi-Rise-to-Power-in-Libya-CIA-and-State-Department-files-published-by-PaperlessArchives-com-003499)

We must be aware that although there is little evidence for direct CIA involvement in the rise to power of Gaddafi he was supported externally, specifically by the UK.

In 1966, in spite of Captain Lough’s reports that Gadaffi was a murderer, a possible assassin and a revolutionary, Gadaffi was granted permission to attend a four-month training course in Britain. He spent four weeks at Beaconsfield and three months at the Royal Armoured Corps headquarters in Bovington in Dorset.

(http://islamicsystem.blogspot.com/2011/02/was-britain-behind-gadaffis-coup-in.html)

In the years of 2005-2009 aprox. 119million euros worth of arms licenses were granted to Libya by the UK alone (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/01/eu-arms-exports-libya#data) and it is obvious from the data that over the reign of Gaddafi billions were spent on weapons from Western countries.

---

Whilst i cannot feel sorry for any of these men, their brutallity or their actions I find all the vitriol in the News and mass media to be evidence of incredibly short memory by the journalists involved and very few articles seem to cover the legitimacy, training and weapons that the Western nations freely gave to these men when they were considered 'of value' in order to fight proxy wars, stabilise regions or simply be willing customers for our own WMD's.

Both Saddam and Gaddafi actively reduced their arsenals following the millenium for fear of international actions against them. In all honesty their usefullness to the west had come to an end and more favourable governments had an opportunity to be installed.

The lessons here is that any new dictators should be very wary of the support of the Western nations for it is always temporary and fickle - similarly for the western nations we should give far more thought to those we support into power through our 'closed door' machinations and agencies.

Time will tell whether the actions of the last 5 years in supporting the acitivites that led to the deaths of these men have stabilised or fractured the regions or groups they worked within.

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Namely that the modern Western developed countries of the US, UK and Europe make very fair weather friends to those outside our cultural block.

Not just those outside Europe - what about Mussolini - worked for British intelligence - then murdered when we didn't need him anymore.

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Not house price related directly but a point i would like to raise with all my HPC kin for their consideration and input.

Namely that the modern Western developed countries of the US, UK and Europe make very fair weather friends to those outside our cultural block.

In the last few years we have actively been involved in fighting or supporting fighting against Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. We read papers talking about their evils and how we bring democracy abroad but let us put their positions into context here.

Put this into context:

1) Bin Laden

Operation Cyclone was the US funded initiave to promote radical Islamic fundamentalist movement and arm them in Afgahnistan to fight a proxy war against the Russians towards the end of the Cold War. This programme saw the west pumping funds and training into extremist organisations such as the Mujahideen so that they might fight in a country where western military presence would itself have been provocative. Many ask why the Islamists are so set against the West, it's partly that we helped build them up and when their role was played for us we cut and run. Osama was involved in this according to many sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden.

Bin Laden was killed in 2011 during fighting whilst a US strike team attempted his capture.

2) Hussein

Where Cyclone funded extremists Saddam Hussein was a secular dictator in a fractured tribal country with deep Islamic history. Once again the hand of the CIA is in evidence as some sources claim that Saddam was in CIA pay even before the Baathist party revolution:

(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0420-05.htm).

Not only was this state sponsored takeover but it provided a strong and brutal partner for decades who would act as a proxy agency against the more extreme Iran and be a willing purchaser of weapons from the western military industrial complex to the tune of tens of millions of dollars every year.

Although obviously not a nice fellow the legal basis for the war in Iraq with the now infamous 'WMD' presentation by Colin Powell to the UN only serves to show how tenuous the real arguement was to forceably entering Iraq. Hussein was killed in 2006 by hanging following a war crimes court judgement.

3) Gaddafi

With the death of Gaddafi yesterday it is time to add this to the list of fair weather friends.

Like Hussein Gaddafi brough a secular dictatorship to a country that might otherwise has developed into one of extremism.

Since the bloodless coup that brought him to power in 1969 his relationship with the West was always rocky. From being classed as a supporter of Terrorism in the 70's to becoming a key arms trade partner in the 80's and 90's to Lockerbie - Libya has been a constant element of discussion in International and Foreign Affairs.

(http://www.pressking.com/press-releases/Qaddafi-Rise-to-Power-in-Libya-CIA-and-State-Department-files-published-by-PaperlessArchives-com-003499)

We must be aware that although there is little evidence for direct CIA involvement in the rise to power of Gaddafi he was supported externally, specifically by the UK.

(http://islamicsystem.blogspot.com/2011/02/was-britain-behind-gadaffis-coup-in.html)

In the years of 2005-2009 aprox. 119million euros worth of arms licenses were granted to Libya by the UK alone (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/01/eu-arms-exports-libya#data) and it is obvious from the data that over the reign of Gaddafi billions were spent on weapons from Western countries.

---

Whilst i cannot feel sorry for any of these men, their brutallity or their actions I find all the vitriol in the News and mass media to be evidence of incredibly short memory by the journalists involved and very few articles seem to cover the legitimacy, training and weapons that the Western nations freely gave to these men when they were considered 'of value' in order to fight proxy wars, stabilise regions or simply be willing customers for our own WMD's.

Both Saddam and Gaddafi actively reduced their arsenals following the millenium for fear of international actions against them. In all honesty their usefullness to the west had come to an end and more favourable governments had an opportunity to be installed.

The lessons here is that any new dictators should be very wary of the support of the Western nations for it is always temporary and fickle - similarly for the western nations we should give far more thought to those we support into power through our 'closed door' machinations and agencies.

Time will tell whether the actions of the last 5 years in supporting the acitivites that led to the deaths of these men have stabilised or fractured the regions or groups they worked within.

erm,nope.

the gadaffi regime was supported by elements of the (not even) british government of the time who were/are attempting to overthrow the WASPS.this was also to be aimed at destroying the remnants of commonwealth links,disrupting all means of reasonable commerce and tarnishing our reputation os a reasonably honest broker when it comes to doing business.

the anti gun/anti knife crime stuff is also being used to soften us up prior to the main attack.

the main aim is to force us into vassal state of the EU.

whoever or whatever is the driving force behind this has clearly been reading the works of aleister crowley.

they've already lost,they just don't realise it yet.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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