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Oh and TMT... your description there of what these dolts expect from you in a dull workplace really puts me off IT even more lol...

That is only the surface - it is even worse.

I used to love IT when IT was run by IT people but, with the advent of the net, hundreds of thousands of paper shufflers have come into IT and destroyed it.

It is just about OK being a contractor but the work can be flaky. Never be a permie in an IT department though unless you can find some cushy charity or out of the way low stress environment. Alas, the big IT consultances virtually run everything these days.

In the Welsh public sector much of the IT is on the same pay scale as clerical staff. It is ludicrous as the managers equate really difficult and stressful skills to learn and maintain with secretarial work.

No, have a life. Be happy.

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In fairness, my current job is great. My colleagues are a bit like extended family, the work is very interesting - I enjoy it! Perhaps I'm getting too hung up on money, but I guess that's what happens when housing is 6-10x your salary.

Well we all feel for you regarding the housing issue, but that is beyond your control. If your enjoyment of your work is genuine, I wouldn't be in a rush to exchange that for a miserable working day with more money. Even if the money doubled could you realistically afford a house that would make the miserable day worth it?

A lot of us got an unlucky break with our birth dates and this ridiculous housing bubble, but if in the rest of your life you are happy, you're doing pretty well in my opinion.

Enjoy what you have!

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Who would want to be a permie in IT rather than contract with those rates?

Some permanent IT staff get paid very well - and get great benefits on top. Some IT contractors get paid very average daily/hourly rates - and get zero benefits.

IT is very wide ranging and anyone who thinks everyone in it gets paid 100k per year doesn't know what they are talking about.

Edited by ccc

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Well we all feel for you regarding the housing issue, but that is beyond your control. If your enjoyment of your work is genuine, I wouldn't be in a rush to exchange that for a miserable working day with more money. Even if the money doubled could you realistically afford a house that would make the miserable day worth it?

A lot of us got an unlucky break with our birth dates and this ridiculous housing bubble, but if in the rest of your life you are happy, you're doing pretty well in my opinion.

Enjoy what you have!

Indeed. I am sure there are many people out there earning loads of money - who would read about someone enjoying their job and getting paid 30k per year - and be very jealous.

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Indeed. I am sure there are many people out there earning loads of money - who would read about someone enjoying their job and getting paid 30k per year - and be very jealous.

exactly

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Hmm, I guess. I guess you don't know what you've got until it's gone sometimes.

Had a good chat with some engineers at lunchtime regarding all this. They agree things are great at my current company (it's really one of the best ones going!!), though I should get working abroad etc out of the way while I'm still young and then make bi decisions. Go for field apps/marketing was their advice if I want more money. Basically, technical is bottom of the pile, pay-wise (cue lots of anecdotals from the guys about bad tech guys who went on to become managers who were then in charge of their old tech bosses!)

Anybody else think IT will see another decade-long boom? Will it keep going? Not that I'm going to join the ranks..!

EDIT: Had to add this:

http://www.ic-resources.com/job/business-development-manager-semiconductors-jobid-j17147_icr

Must have the 'hunter' mentality lol..........!!

Edited by guitarman001

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Hmm, I guess. I guess you don't know what you've got until it's gone sometimes.

Had a good chat with some engineers at lunchtime regarding all this. They agree things are great at my current company (it's really one of the best ones going!!), though I should get working abroad etc out of the way while I'm still young and then make bi decisions. Go for field apps/marketing was their advice if I want more money. Basically, technical is bottom of the pile, pay-wise (cue lots of anecdotals from the guys about bad tech guys who went on to become managers who were then in charge of their old tech bosses!)

Anybody else think IT will see another decade-long boom? Will it keep going? Not that I'm going to join the ranks..!

EDIT: Had to add this:

http://www.ic-resources.com/job/business-development-manager-semiconductors-jobid-j17147_icr

Must have the 'hunter' mentality lol..........!!

...IT will always grow ..it's a matter of keeping up to date , upskilling, self development and keeping in touch with and anticipating developments....

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You in IT, too, South Lorne?

Soul Reaver - just read your post again - just unbelievable lol, I can't help but chuckling to myself. You've really landed it good. Good point about learning how to blag and it getting you places - just acting the part seems to get people ahead!

I've got to ask you one thing, though... you got bored of everything else you did, but you've stayed in IT. Don't tell me it's not because of the money, please.. from what TMT indicates, the job can be awful in itself, and from your earlier post, you aren't the type to stick to one job more than 5 years or so...?

Any good books/websites detailing the typical work done by you IT guys? Mainly in my job I design circuits, but I did do a lot of C-programming before that. Just interested...

Assuming one can't blag their way in so easily nowadays... what would be the normal route?

Edited by guitarman001

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I'll guess banking, recruitment... I don't know.

I sometimes use this to cheer me up:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-1709280/Best-paid-jobs-A-guide-UK-salaries-wages-2010.html

Electronics engineer supposedly in top 30 or so. So a lot better than some - must get on.

This shows an even worse picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom

Edited by guitarman001

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I will say it again - when we come out of this recession there will be such a boom in UK IT that experienced people will be able to name their own price.

The question is how long will it be before we come out of this recession - by the time we do there may be no experienced people left.

In Silicon Valley at the moment the IT market is booming, especially for coders in the social networking and mobile arena. So much so that lots of work is being outsourced here and good coders can now work from a bedroom in Swansea whilst commanding silly wages. Alas, I am not a coder.

A few years ago lots of UK coders could not get work or had seen their wages plunge.

It is all part of the IT cycle.

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I will say it again - when we come out of this recession there will be such a boom in UK IT that experienced people will be able to name their own price.

The question is how long will it be before we come out of this recession - by the time we do there may be no experienced people left.

In Silicon Valley at the moment the IT market is booming, especially for coders in the social networking and mobile arena. So much so that lots of work is being outsourced here and good coders can now work from a bedroom in Swansea whilst commanding silly wages. Alas, I am not a coder.

A few years ago lots of UK coders could not get work or had seen their wages plunge.

It is all part of the IT cycle.

Unless unemployment is constructive and sensibly tackled then I think your talking ten years from now, The Tories haven't got a clue what to do and are resorting to the political dogma that is the only thing they know.

Get people back to work and this recession will be licked, and maybe we will see a boom time

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I will say it again - when we come out of this recession there will be such a boom in UK IT that experienced people will be able to name their own price.

The question is how long will it be before we come out of this recession - by the time we do there may be no experienced people left.

In Silicon Valley at the moment the IT market is booming, especially for coders in the social networking and mobile arena. So much so that lots of work is being outsourced here and good coders can now work from a bedroom in Swansea whilst commanding silly wages. Alas, I am not a coder.

A few years ago lots of UK coders could not get work or had seen their wages plunge.

It is all part of the IT cycle.

In the case of a credit expansion boom such as we have had for the last 40 years I'd agree.

I can't recall a situation like this in my memory where there were doubts about so many countries being able to repay their debts. It's a big assumption that we will come out of this recession at anything like the same demand levels we had leading up to it.

I've personally experienced a high tech industry that was still being heralded as the future within the last 20 years. It's now decimated in the UK and unlikely to ever recover. For a long period of that decimation it was considered all part of the industry cycle.

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In the case of a credit expansion boom such as we have had for the last 40 years I'd agree.

I can't recall a situation like this in my memory where there were doubts about so many countries being able to repay their debts. It's a big assumption that we will come out of this recession at anything like the same demand levels we had leading up to it.

I've personally experienced a high tech industry that was still being heralded as the future within the last 20 years. It's now decimated in the UK and unlikely to ever recover. For a long period of that decimation it was considered all part of the industry cycle.

Good point.

Perhaps we will have to move for the work. I am already resigned to the reality, with the odd exceptions, that Wales will be left as an economic black-hole whilst the emphasis is placed on getting England, mainly London and the South East, out of the hole.

Makes you think twice about buying a home... ah, but then another 10 millions are coming here to live aren't they!?

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Come on, TMT - move now while you're still young (you are young, right?). I know you want to...

I think banking wont have AS much money as before so I'm not 100% convinced regarding IT expansion in the coming decade. Who knows.

europbaron - you planning on moving abroad then?

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I will say it again - when we come out of this recession there will be such a boom in UK IT that experienced people will be able to name their own price.

The question is how long will it be before we come out of this recession - by the time we do there may be no experienced people left.

In Silicon Valley at the moment the IT market is booming, especially for coders in the social networking and mobile arena. So much so that lots of work is being outsourced here and good coders can now work from a bedroom in Swansea whilst commanding silly wages. Alas, I am not a coder.

A few years ago lots of UK coders could not get work or had seen their wages plunge.

It is all part of the IT cycle.

Come on MT already hapening n London. All sorts of roles. The Last Man standing position with a lot of service companies so only the best have survived has already been reached also coupled with a 'protectionist' rightly so attitude about using British companies. Not saying the future is bright but there is a hazy sun.

Edited by Greg Bowman

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Come on MT already hapening n London. All sorts of roles. The Last Man standing position with a lot of service companies so only the best have survived has already been reached also coupled with a 'protectionist' rightly so attitude about using British companies. Not saying the future is bright but there is a hazy sun.

I am putting feelers out at the moment - London, which I loathe, but also places like AMS. Trying to find that magical combination of something that I enjoy with a location I like.

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You in IT, too, South Lorne?

Soul Reaver - just read your post again - just unbelievable lol, I can't help but chuckling to myself. You've really landed it good. Good point about learning how to blag and it getting you places - just acting the part seems to get people ahead!

I've got to ask you one thing, though... you got bored of everything else you did, but you've stayed in IT. Don't tell me it's not because of the money, please.. from what TMT indicates, the job can be awful in itself, and from your earlier post, you aren't the type to stick to one job more than 5 years or so...?

Any good books/websites detailing the typical work done by you IT guys? Mainly in my job I design circuits, but I did do a lot of C-programming before that. Just interested...

Assuming one can't blag their way in so easily nowadays... what would be the normal route?

Read up on the cloud. All sorts of forums and seminars groups on linked on the subject. The trick is not to become too expert the future money from a standing start like yours will be in understanding how it all links together. The role will be cloud aggregator taking building blocks and making them work storage from Amazon, Microsoft Office 365 over a Cisco network. Would do you no harm to get Cisco qulaified - routers and switches will be around for a long while and whilst you potentially reduce costs through cheaper cloud computng you will have bigger and better network devices i.e Cisco.

For a specific route look at network security doesn't take a crystal ball to see that traditional IT managers will be toast and people will rely on their networks and security even more with incresaed regulation companies will probably have their own internal network security specialist.

In terms of tactics. If I look at your CV now does it show any IT interest? Not programming Mum's website but running a specific area for your current employer volunteer to research these areas or even take responsibility for a small area. Once you have built that up a bit look for an opportunity of the following shape:

Total IT Support for a biz with about 50 or so employees such as sys admin.

Service desk position in a privately owned IT business turnover £2 million plus normally if you get into somewhere like that, you can touch all sorts of stuff quick and hence raipdly increase your skills.

Search on:

IT Support

Managed Services Provision

Managed Technology Services

IT Outsourcing

Use a cheap credit check account to assess their size or ask them straight out when ringing

You will have to blag so keep talking to your IT mates for current terms etc

Edited by Greg Bowman

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Actually thinking (just thinking...) of possibly re-training to get into something more electrical/power-based rather than electronics. Would be stating from the first rung again, but I'm only 27 and if it means greater potential rewards:

http://www.seek.com.au/Job/graduate-mining-careers-multiple-disciplines-ph-02-6163-7500/in/mackay-coalfields-mackay-coalfields/20863045

Mining in Australia pays a shedload and that's just for a graduate role. I am sorely tempted to make a speculative application and see how I get on...

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I am putting feelers out at the moment - London, which I loathe, but also places like AMS. Trying to find that magical combination of something that I enjoy with a location I like.

Bristol is not that far away, up and coming area there are some great places to live round and about.....and not that far from home. ;)

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Bristol is not that far away, up and coming area there are some great places to live round and about.....and not that far from home. ;)

Decent areas of Bristol are on a par with London in terms of cost. Think £200k for a decent one bedroom flat in the nicest area Clifton.

Poorer parts of Bristol require bullet proof vests to be worn at all times.

We don't need anymore Londoners coming here to 'downsize' and pushing up prices even more!

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Decent areas of Bristol are on a par with London in terms of cost. Think £200k for a decent one bedroom flat in the nicest area Clifton.

Poorer parts of Bristol require bullet proof vests to be worn at all times.

We don't need anymore Londoners coming here to 'downsize' and pushing up prices even more!

There is a trend of ex. Londeners moving to bristol to change pace, down speed, downsize, have a familty etc, the problem is that the companys here don't need people who think they can change down a gear, we have to compete in the global market like everybody else, moving from london to bristol does not mean you have to work any less, its just a nicer place.

Rossl

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There is a trend of ex. Londeners moving to bristol to change pace, down speed, downsize, have a familty etc, the problem is that the companys here don't need people who think they can change down a gear, we have to compete in the global market like everybody else, moving from london to bristol does not mean you have to work any less, its just a nicer place.

Rossl

Correct.....and I don't live in Bristol, only offering my unbiased observations to TMT. ;)

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  • 314 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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