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Staggering Benefit Figures


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I was chatting with an acquaintance recently who has recently become a BTL landlord. in a relatively affluent seaside town in the SE. They specifically chose the 'low' end of the market and bought a small 3 bed former council house. They let it privately, no agent, without a problem (in fact someone called to see if it was still free as we were still chatting). Anyhow, it emerged during the conversation that this person had accidentally been sent details of the tenant's benefits - a familiy with 2 kids was receiving £3500 pcm, plus HB of £1600. Not sure exactly which benefits they claim, but disability is one of them, although the LL did not know what the disability problem was (ie: it wasn't obvious, no special provisions for a wheelchair and suchlike). The LL is delighted, as they're making a mint off the deal, and they said that the tenants will never leave because "they will never work again" and the place is perfect for them. Just to cap it all off, one of the tenants told her he'd pay her "when he got paid", implying that he also has a job (although this could just mean paid by the DSS). Not that I'm an outraged Daily Mail type, but this absolutely staggered me. This family receive as much in benefits as our net family income, and we have pretty good salaries. I really does make you wonder what the ******ing point is.

Edited by Tenubracon
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Had a chat recently with a CAB adviser about single mum benefits.

I have several examples of benefits income equivalent to a gross salary of £40k. She said the worst she'd come across was £60k benefits income - excluding housing benefit. I suppose it's the equivalent of a six figure salary, making that single mum part of the 1%!

It's all good because the money gets spent straight away. Keeps GDP chugging along, don'cha know.

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I was chatting with an acquaintance recently who has recently become a BTL landlord. in a relatively affluent seaside town in the SE. They specifically chose the 'low' end of the market and bought a small 3 bed former council house. They let it privately, no agent, without a problem (in fact someone called to see if it was still free as we were still chatting). Anyhow, it emerged during the conversation that this person had accidentally been sent details of the tenant's benefits - a familiy with 2 kids was receiving £3500 pcm, plus HB of £1600. Not sure exactly which benefits they claim, but disability is one of them, although the LL did not know what the disability problem was (ie: it wasn't obvious, no special provisions for a wheelchair and suchlike). The LL is delighted, as they're making a mint off the deal, and they said that the tenants will never leave because "they will never work again" and the place is perfect for them. Just to cap it all off, one of the tenants told her he'd pay her "when he got paid", implying that he also has a job (although this could just mean paid by the DSS). Not that I'm an outraged Daily Mail type, but this absolutely staggered me. This family receive as much in benefits as our net family income, and we have pretty good salaries. I really does make you wonder what the ******ing point is.

and all tax free to boot........I may as well throw in the towell

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The trick is to make sure that you are one of the chosen ones that are entitled to these huge payouts - make people think that you are a victim and they will elevate your lifestyle to one of the highest in the land through no effort of your own.

Make people think you are 'rich' and you will end up working your life away doing 50+ hours a week and then handing away most of the fruits of your earnings in tax or rent.

Edited by blackgoose
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I know someone works for a benefits services firm that does work contracted for the DHSS (I think)

she said that the number of private and public firms vying for work are so byzantine, complex, and enriched by it all, that it's a little industry that exists for its own enrichment, and will oppose/scupper attempts to reform

Gordon Brown ruined this country

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Had a chat recently with a CAB adviser about single mum benefits.

I have several examples of benefits income equivalent to a gross salary of £40k. She said the worst she'd come across was £60k benefits income - excluding housing benefit. I suppose it's the equivalent of a six figure salary, making that single mum part of the 1%!

It's all good because the money gets spent straight away. Keeps GDP chugging along, don'cha know.

What, £40k!? JESUS, how do the numbers stack up, seriously? CAN'T be that much, surely...

Thing is, nobody here will ever do it, there is always the chance this gravy train wont last forever...

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My girlfriend used to work for a government department and she used to say the worst ones were the foreigners - had to get a translator in because they couldn't speak the language. Then all she got was an earful about what they were entitled to. Some had 6+ kids and were getting quite a bit of money...

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I'd like a better breakdown of the family income. The only possible way I've been able to get a figure close to the amount you state as being their income from benefits alone is to assume that every single member of the household is severely disabled and gets the maximum award of DLA (care component and mobility rate), that both adults get support group ESA at the single rate and Child Tax Credit, Child Benefit. It is extremely unlikely that that is the case for more than a handful of cases all over the UK. A more typical family (2 parents, 2 kids) would qualify on a weekly basis for £105.95 JSA, £108.85 Child Tax Credit, and £33.70 Child Benefit a total of £248.50 per week, £1076.83 per month.

Without a clear idea of the circumstances of the family being discussed it's impossible to really get a grip on why they are receiving so much. As I said above the only way I've even got close is by assuming they are all severely disabled.

Also the Housing Benefit income seems too high for a three bed property, I don't know which SE affluent coastal town which you refer to, but Brighton & Hove will pay a maximum of £229.62 per week, £995.02 per month for a three bed property, and their maximum LHA rate is £323.08 pw, £1400.00 PCM. Which is somewhat short of £1600.00 per month.

I'd advise anyone trying to get a better view on the range of benefits available and the rates paid to check out direct gov, it's all pretty simply laid out.

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£1k a month as 'typical'. What a JOKE. I'm getting penalised for not having kids. Hell I only get £1900 net!

Remember guitarman that income is not for a single man, but to support four people, it won't really go that far. Most working people wouldn't be able to survive more than a few months with an income that low.

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I'd like a better breakdown of the family income. The only possible way I've been able to get a figure close to the amount you state as being their income from benefits alone is to assume that every single member of the household is severely disabled and gets the maximum award of DLA (care component and mobility rate), that both adults get support group ESA at the single rate and Child Tax Credit, Child Benefit. It is extremely unlikely that that is the case for more than a handful of cases all over the UK. A more typical family (2 parents, 2 kids) would qualify on a weekly basis for £105.95 JSA, £108.85 Child Tax Credit, and £33.70 Child Benefit a total of £248.50 per week, £1076.83 per month.

Without a clear idea of the circumstances of the family being discussed it's impossible to really get a grip on why they are receiving so much. As I said above the only way I've even got close is by assuming they are all severely disabled.

Also the Housing Benefit income seems too high for a three bed property, I don't know which SE affluent coastal town which you refer to, but Brighton & Hove will pay a maximum of £229.62 per week, £995.02 per month for a three bed property, and their maximum LHA rate is £323.08 pw, £1400.00 PCM. Which is somewhat short of £1600.00 per month.

I'd advise anyone trying to get a better view on the range of benefits available and the rates paid to check out direct gov, it's all pretty simply laid out.

I was similarly amazed by the amount and even not knowing the benefits system at all, I was sceptical of the figures the LL stated. However, the LL wasn't making an issue of the figures (the conversation was more about how fabulously well they were doimg out of the deal), they just stated them casually, almost as an aside. I didn't get the impressions they were deliberately exaggerating, but it could easily have been a mistake, I guess. Still, that's why I put it in the anecdotals section.

Getting all hot under the collar without knowing all of the facts? I might make a Daily Mail reader yet!

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I was similarly amazed by the amount and even not knowing the benefits system at all, I was sceptical of the figures the LL stated. However, the LL wasn't making an issue of the figures (the conversation was more about how fabulously well they were doimg out of the deal), they just stated them casually, almost as an aside. I didn't get the impressions they were deliberately exaggerating, but it could easily have been a mistake, I guess. Still, that's why I put it in the anecdotals section.

Getting all hot under the collar without knowing all of the facts? I might make a Daily Mail reader yet!

So... taking any bets as to how long before the LL is underwater? :lol:

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I was chatting with an acquaintance recently who has recently become a BTL landlord. in a relatively affluent seaside town in the SE. They specifically chose the 'low' end of the market and bought a small 3 bed former council house. They let it privately, no agent, without a problem (in fact someone called to see if it was still free as we were still chatting). Anyhow, it emerged during the conversation that this person had accidentally been sent details of the tenant's benefits - a familiy with 2 kids was receiving £3500 pcm, plus HB of £1600. Not sure exactly which benefits they claim, but disability is one of them, although the LL did not know what the disability problem was (ie: it wasn't obvious, no special provisions for a wheelchair and suchlike). The LL is delighted, as they're making a mint off the deal, and they said that the tenants will never leave because "they will never work again" and the place is perfect for them. Just to cap it all off, one of the tenants told her he'd pay her "when he got paid", implying that he also has a job (although this could just mean paid by the DSS). Not that I'm an outraged Daily Mail type, but this absolutely staggered me. This family receive as much in benefits as our net family income, and we have pretty good salaries. I really does make you wonder what the ******ing point is.

I strongly urge you to have your 'friend' blot out any name address, NI number and post the letter on here, so we can all see it. If true it is much more than they could probably earn after deductions and needs to be in the newspapers.

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I strongly urge you to have your 'friend' blot out any name address, NI number and post the letter on here, so we can all see it. If true it is much more than they could probably earn after deductions and needs to be in the newspapers.

Acquaintance, not friend. And they'd be cutting their own throat if they did that! Just to be clear, I'm not claming this is definitively true, just passing in what I was told. As I said in a previous post, I doubted the figures myself. It wouldn't surprise me if the total figure of about £3500 included the HB, that'd make more sense. But it's stil a shed load of cash.

Edited by Tenubracon
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What, £40k!? JESUS, how do the numbers stack up, seriously? CAN'T be that much, surely...

Thing is, nobody here will ever do it, there is always the chance this gravy train wont last forever...

Example for single mum + 3 dependant children, on 4-week basis: income support 280, child benefit 240, child tax credit 710, disability living allowance 260, housing benefit 760. Net income over 365 days: 29,330. This doesn't include council tax exemption and a few other bits 'n bobs.

Those figures were supplied by the single mum. A bit dated now, but if it's linked to CPI the sum may be even greater. I have a few more examples, but didn't take the exact figures.

I guess people will object that you can't reach those figures using online benefits calculators - I haven't tried, just relying on what I was told directly.

Simple solution: publish all benefits payments online. Exposes fraud + informs the public.

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Example for single mum + 3 dependant children, on 4-week basis: income support 280, child benefit 240, child tax credit 710, disability living allowance 260, housing benefit 760. Net income over 365 days: 29,330. This doesn't include council tax exemption and a few other bits 'n bobs.

Those figures were supplied by the single mum. A bit dated now, but if it's linked to CPI the sum may be even greater. I have a few more examples, but didn't take the exact figures.

I guess people will object that you can't reach those figures using online benefits calculators - I haven't tried, just relying on what I was told directly.

Simple solution: publish all benefits payments online. Exposes fraud + informs the public.

The figures for Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit are a bit out. You get £20.30 pw for the first child, then £13.40 pw for each subsequent child, thats £47.10 per week, £188.40 every 4 weeks. With Tax Credits you receive a family element of £545.00 PA, then £2,555.00 PA per child, so that would be £631.54 every four weeks. Income Support is £67.50 per week, so £270.00 every four weeks. DLA broadly right if DLA middle rate care (£47.80 pw) and low rate mobility (£18.95) . HB broadly right if in 3 bed privately rented property. That's £27,520.22 p.a., if it is one of the children which is disabled they might receive an additional element of Tax Credit to help with additional expenses, that would be an additional £245.00 PA for a disabled child, a severely disabled child would receive an additional £1,130.00 PA.

All benefit rates are already published online at direct gov and it's easy to work out hypothetical situations for benefit entitlement. Benefit entitlement is generally tailored to means and if someone has a long term illness or disabilities or dependants their benefit increases to accommodate these extra expenses. In general the long term recipients of state benefits comprise a third single parents, a third disabled and a third long term sick. The able bodied singletons are not on benefits for long unless there is a major recession.

For a fuller idea of average entitlements you would need to get at the DWP statistics which are published on their website.

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The figures for Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit are a bit out. You get £20.30 pw for the first child, then £13.40 pw for each subsequent child, thats £47.10 per week, £188.40 every 4 weeks. With Tax Credits you receive a family element of £545.00 PA, then £2,555.00 PA per child, so that would be £631.54 every four weeks. Income Support is £67.50 per week, so £270.00 every four weeks. DLA broadly right if DLA middle rate care (£47.80 pw) and low rate mobility (£18.95) . HB broadly right if in 3 bed privately rented property. That's £27,520.22 p.a., if it is one of the children which is disabled they might receive an additional element of Tax Credit to help with additional expenses, that would be an additional £245.00 PA for a disabled child, a severely disabled child would receive an additional £1,130.00 PA.

All benefit rates are already published online at direct gov and it's easy to work out hypothetical situations for benefit entitlement. Benefit entitlement is generally tailored to means and if someone has a long term illness or disabilities or dependants their benefit increases to accommodate these extra expenses. In general the long term recipients of state benefits comprise a third single parents, a third disabled and a third long term sick. The able bodied singletons are not on benefits for long unless there is a major recession.

For a fuller idea of average entitlements you would need to get at the DWP statistics which are published on their website.

Thanks. Maybe those with knowledge of the system take it for granted, but I reckon most people would be shocked to see these routine figures approximately confirmed.

I wasn't suggesting publication of statistics, but of who gets how much, case by case. I understand the concerns about revealing the circumstances of children & vulnerable people, but taxpayers are entitled to know what they're paying for and workers are entitled to know what they're competing against. Identifying recipients would drive home how precise the state is in picking out winners and losers.

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Even those figures... really are staggering... I used to think having a kid would be too much of a strain financially... but could I be wrong? Probably, if you work and have a child.

£30k NET. I can agree with a lot of those figures as my sis is a single mum in a nice council house with rent and council tax paid (well, I think half of the council tax is paid), and a host of other benefits. It really is shocking, is it not? I mean, £30k NET!!!!! I only JUST get that, GROSS!!!!

The child tax credit is ENORMOUS. I mean, what IS that? Child tax credit????

You're totally stuffed if you are single and work... this sort of thing really gets me heated up. I mean REALLY. Are benefits this generous in other countries?

I'd need a £5k rise in my gross salary just to get an extra couple hundred quid which just ONE of these LOWER-PAYING benefits hands out so easily. And it'll take me 4-5 years a time to get the experience to make these BIG JUMPS in salary...

Jesus.....................

Edited by guitarman001
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Even those figures... really are staggering... I used to think having a kid would be too much of a strain financially... but could I be wrong? Probably, if you work and have a child.

£30k NET. I can agree with a lot of those figures as my sis is a single mum in a nice council house with rent and council tax paid (well, I think half of the council tax is paid), and a host of other benefits. It really is shocking, is it not? I mean, £30k NET!!!!! I only JUST get that, GROSS!!!!

The child tax credit is ENORMOUS. I mean, what IS that? Child tax credit????

You're totally stuffed if you are single and work... this sort of thing really gets me heated up. I mean REALLY. Are benefits this generous in other countries?

I'd need a £5k rise in my gross salary just to get an extra couple hundred quid which just ONE of these LOWER-PAYING benefits hands out so easily. And it'll take me 4-5 years a time to get the experience to make these BIG JUMPS in salary...

Jesus.....................

Shut up and do as you're told. Hehe!

Feel like protesting? The internet will only get you so far.

Ask your sister for her response to this thread. That would be interesting.

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Even those figures... really are staggering... I used to think having a kid would be too much of a strain financially... but could I be wrong? Probably, if you work and have a child.

£30k NET. I can agree with a lot of those figures as my sis is a single mum in a nice council house with rent and council tax paid (well, I think half of the council tax is paid), and a host of other benefits. It really is shocking, is it not? I mean, £30k NET!!!!! I only JUST get that, GROSS!!!!

The child tax credit is ENORMOUS. I mean, what IS that? Child tax credit????

You're totally stuffed if you are single and work... this sort of thing really gets me heated up. I mean REALLY. Are benefits this generous in other countries?

I'd need a £5k rise in my gross salary just to get an extra couple hundred quid which just ONE of these LOWER-PAYING benefits hands out so easily. And it'll take me 4-5 years a time to get the experience to make these BIG JUMPS in salary...

Jesus.....................

dont underestimate the value of the council house benefit too Guitarman, that is why I think that they should be sold off, so that the market value of what is being received can be exposed. You are totally right though, working people are being ripped off by the system left right and centre.

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So... Sounds to me like I should sell my house, convert the funds to gold (but claim I blew the money on drink and drugs), get fired from my job and then claim the drink & drugs is a disability and get the missus to bang out a couple more kids.

I'd then end up getting about the same in benefits that I currently earn (after tax) without the hassle of having to go to work and get plenty of time to bring up the kids.

Sweet!

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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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