His Entire Romanian Town Knows How To "work" Uk Benefit's System

[South Lorne]

...no wonder our taxes are high and we need to make cuts.....

He told me bluntly that his entire town knows how to work Britain's benefit system.

"The blame is with the British state, which gives them a lot of money. They have lots of children, seven, eight or 10 children, and if they have many children they build a villa."

The sums he cites are staggering.

"Some collect £10,000, £12,000, £13,000 a month - they have three or four of five sets of benefits."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_9618000/9618038.stm

[interestrateripoff]

The welfare system is huge and easy to target by fraudsters, as it's pays out tens of billions the losses will be enormous.

[leicestersq]

Utterly shocking as it is predictable.

The whole benefits and council house system is riddled with fraud. Give away free stuff and the consequences are inevitable.

If the government cannot work out how to distinguish between UK people who are genuinely in need, and crooks, then the entire system has to go or else we will go bankrupt and there will be no benefits for anyone. It appears that the government is clueless as to how to do this.

[Kurt Barlow]

The welfare system is huge and easy to target by fraudsters, as it's pays out tens of billions the losses will be enormous.

One answer to much of this is to revert to the system of collection at a nominated post office in person unless severely disabled or incapacitated. This would put a stop to much of this perpetual benefits tourism and be a boost for hard pressed post offices.

[SarahBell]

One answer to much of this is to revert to the system of collection at a nominated post office in person unless severely disabled or incapacitated. This would put a stop to much of this perpetual benefits tourism and be a boost for hard pressed post offices.

+1

[leicestersq]

One answer to much of this is to revert to the system of collection at a nominated post office in person unless severely disabled or incapacitated. This would put a stop to much of this perpetual benefits tourism and be a boost for hard pressed post offices.

Yes, and I know many hate it, but a properly run national ID database would help too. If you had to submit a fingerprint on collection of benefits to prove identity, plus some sort of facial recognition, that would help too.

I think it would also mean that you would only be able to claim benefits if you were in the UK. I dont see a problem with that restriction too.

Whatever they do though, they have to be able to distinguish between genuine and non-genuine claimants. There is no evidence at all that they have the first clue.

[Kurt Barlow]

Yes, and I know many hate it, but a properly run national ID database would help too. If you had to submit a fingerprint on collection of benefits to prove identity, plus some sort of facial recognition, that would help too.

I think it would also mean that you would only be able to claim benefits if you were in the UK. I dont see a problem with that restriction too.

Whatever they do though, they have to be able to distinguish between genuine and non-genuine claimants. There is no evidence at all that they have the first clue.

I know several disabled british people (mainly with MS) who are fecked off with this too and would happily hobble to the Post office to pick up their DLA if it helped put a stop to these scammers.

[Solitaire]

If the government cannot work out how to distinguish between UK people who are genuinely in need, and crooks, then the entire system has to go or else we will go bankrupt and there will be no benefits for anyone. It appears that the government is clueless as to how to do this.

+1

[sossij]

One answer to much of this is to revert to the system of collection at a nominated post office in person unless severely disabled or incapacitated. This would put a stop to much of this perpetual benefits tourism and be a boost for hard pressed post offices.

Originally removed at the behest of our banking overlords demanding electronic payments forever be appropriated into their wonderful system for them to bet on black..." no red... no black.... doh! Can I have my bonus now Mr Taxpayer?"

[leicestersq]

I know several disabled british people (mainly with MS) who are fecked off with this too and would happily hobble to the Post office to pick up their DLA if it helped put a stop to these scammers.

People are always angry when it comes to a proper ID database, but I just see massive benefits. If newborn children were put on to it, dna taken, a mugshot, finger prints. Then updates of that info at increasing intervals. It would register you as a UK citizen, recorded in the system. Then when you present yourself to the state, for something like hospital treatment or benefits, you can validate your nationality, and those not on the system cannot and the door wont open for them.

[sossij]

People are always angry when it comes to a proper ID database, but I just see massive benefits. If newborn children were put on to it, dna taken, a mugshot, finger prints. Then updates of that info at increasing intervals. It would register you as a UK citizen, recorded in the system. Then when you present yourself to the state, for something like hospital treatment or benefits, you can validate your nationality, and those not on the system cannot and the door wont open for them.

Also extremely valuable for any future Stasi wannabes. Mind you they'll probably just look you up on Facebook instead before come knocking in the night...

[SarahBell]

People are always angry when it comes to a proper ID database,

My biggest problem with the idea was they were going to use dirty data.

Unless the data is accurate then the same scammers would get away with it now.

And how much processing time would need to be spent ot ensure only one of each person was on the database.

It'd be fun to build a genetic tree from the data

[Lennon]

People are always angry when it comes to a proper ID database, but I just see massive benefits. If newborn children were put on to it, dna taken, a mugshot, finger prints. Then updates of that info at increasing intervals. It would register you as a UK citizen, recorded in the system. Then when you present yourself to the state, for something like hospital treatment or benefits, you can validate your nationality, and those not on the system cannot and the door wont open for them.

The problem I have is that you are complaining about the governments complete ineptitude at running a benefits system - what makes you think that they would be any more competant at running an ID database?

[neil324]

My mother is 60 and has just signed on, last time signing on was briefly mid 90's. She was sent to somewhere to get a CV done. The women making the CV said 'that is biggest CV i have had to make regarding work history'. She has been told that if she is not computer literature she will have to do a course. Today she came round to see me after received a letter requesting bank statements and on the verge of stopping the claim.

I wonder if johnny foreigner has had to put as much into the system and is finding it quite as hard taking as little out.

I pray to god this country collapses in on it's stinking self.

[Kurt Barlow]

Also extremely valuable for any future Stasi wannabes. Mind you they'll probably just look you up on Facebook instead before come knocking in the night...

Maybe but as Leicester Sq says the system needs massive overhauling otherwise it will go bust and leave many genuine people deep in the shit (disabled & elderly)

[papag]

Never mind the Romanians was in a bar in Spain where on the notice board was a communication for a meeting to discuss receiving UK benefit entitlements whilst residing in Spain.

[leicestersq]

Also extremely valuable for any future Stasi wannabes. Mind you they'll probably just look you up on Facebook instead before come knocking in the night...

Well it could be. I imagine though that a system that is out in the open is likely to be used for beneficial things. Checking who is who is vital to the modern state if you are going to be handing out benefits. Checking that you are still alive is pretty important too given recent information that has come to light.

As long as the system just holds information about who you are, it cant really be used for pernicious purposes.

It could be used to track the time and places you declare yourself to the state, but again, these are just facts, and they may well protect you too. If you were up in court for something like a mugging say, and you had identified yourself at a benefit office 100 miles away within 10 minutes of the incident, chances are justice would be done. It is a bit like all those tv cameras everywhere. Few lose sleep at night over them. And I bet that some nutter would have been put in jail for the Bulger killing if there hadnt have been CCTV showing what had really happened.

These things deal with facts, and can protect the innocent when they store facts.

[Kurt Barlow]

My mother is 60 and has just signed on, last time signing on was briefly mid 90's. She was sent to somewhere to get a CV done. The women making the CV said 'that is biggest CV i have had to make regarding work history'. She has been told that if she is not computer literature she will have to do a course. Today she came round to see me after received a letter requesting bank statements and on the verge of stopping the claim.

I wonder if johnny foreigner has had to put as much into the system and is finding it quite as hard taking as little out.

I pray to god this country collapses in on it's stinking self.

sounds familiar - I signed on for 6 weeks in 2009 after getting made redundant. I had to go through a major interrogation for £50 of contributions based benefit. Main reason I signed on was to get my stamp paid also incase period of unemployment longer than suspected.

[The Knimbies who say No]

This problem has jack-all to do with a database at heart.

Paying out benefits to foreign nationals is crackers. As others have said above, unless someone is willing to tackle widespread abuse of the benefits system (and I mean the types of people who are able to lodge claims in the first place), we'll continue to fund villas in Romania, Pakistan and elsewhere. Much of it is a pisstake which was set up with decent intentions but now is in bad need of reform/abolition. The political left have a field day at the mere suggestion that the undeserving should get sod all, hence why 'the nasty party' reserve their 'nastiness' for the mere taxpayers instead, a group everyone in Paliament seems to agree have too much money.

Edited October 19, 2011 by cheeznbreed

[leicestersq]

This problem has jack-all to do with a database.

Paying out benefits to foreign nationals is crackers.

cheeznbreed,

It does have a lot to do with it. There is nothing in the process that can stop foreigners claiming our benefits because there is nothing definitive to check against and as this article has shown, it is easily defrauded. If you had a proper UK Citizens database, the process could demand a check to see if the claimant was a UK citizen.

At the moment it cannot do this, and as a result the taxpayer is having to pay billions every year to pay for Villa's in Romania. And genuine benefit claimants are running the risk of waking up tomorrow finding the state is bankrupt and they will have no further income.

[Goat]

Who was it who said you can have open borders or universal benefits but not both? Keynes I think but I could be wrong.

Looks like he was right.

[The Knimbies who say No]

cheeznbreed,

It does have a lot to do with it. There is nothing in the process that can stop foreigners claiming our benefits because there is nothing definitive to check against and as this article has shown, it is easily defrauded. If you had a proper UK Citizens database, the process could demand a check to see if the claimant was a UK citizen.

At the moment it cannot do this, and as a result the taxpayer is having to pay billions every year to pay for Villa's in Romania. And genuine benefit claimants are running the risk of waking up tomorrow finding the state is bankrupt and they will have no further income.

yes, the burden of proof always seems to be on the State. Why not have everyone who rocks up have to prove who they are, where they live, their entitlement to be in the UK etc etc. Anyone with a strong foreign accent ought to have a very difficult time providing the necessary paperwork. Collection in person from the brew office with ID etc is a no brainer. No speaky english = no benefits.

Part of the problem is that the system has grown out of all proportion, how much of this stuff is needed? McRuin made it his raison d'etre to hire shedloads of people to hand back small fractions of the cash he scooped from them in tax, just sweep it away. The real problem in the UK is the tax burden is too high.

[leicestersq]

The problem I have is that you are complaining about the governments complete ineptitude at running a benefits system - what makes you think that they would be any more competant at running an ID database?

I have to admit I am not optimistic. If it were done properly it would have enormous benefits. It could though become a money pit, the last thing we need.

The fact that the government talked about an ID database and didnt really have a clue as to what to do with it made me think like you, it would be a waste of money.

What it really needs is a system that identifies all of it's citizens. You get entered on to such a system at birth, or through naturalisation, or special order of a court, that is it. Being on it entitles you to whatever benefits the state decides to bestow on its citizens, and indeed obligations too. Most government departments have some sort of need to distinguish identity, and refer to it. Their processes should be changed to use it and in so doing become more efficient. It is the referencing of this central database by the various arms of government that generates massive value, both in cost savings in quickly identifying people, and excluding those who should be excluded.

Who knows if such a project would work. One thing is for sure though, without it our benefits system is going to suck more and more of your money until something is done.

[leicestersq]

Who was it who said you can have open borders or universal benefits but not both? Keynes I think but I could be wrong.

Looks like he was right.

Milton Friedman I think. Arch free-marketeer.

[leicestersq]

yes, the burden of proof always seems to be on the State. Why not have everyone who rocks up have to prove who they are, where they live, their entitlement to be in the UK etc etc. Anyone with a strong foreign accent ought to have a very difficult time providing the necessary paperwork. Collection in person from the brew office with ID etc is a no brainer. No speaky english = no benefits.

Part of the problem is that the system has grown out of all proportion, how much of this stuff is needed? McRuin made it his raison d'etre to hire shedloads of people to hand back small fractions of the cash he scooped from them in tax, just sweep it away. The real problem in the UK is the tax burden is too high.

There ya go see. To pay for all of these benefits, they have to tax you heavily. It is reaching the point where it is becoming impossible to invest, and unworthwhile to work, because taxes are so high. It is only work and investment that gives money any value. Unless benefit provision can be limited to those that are UK citizens and those that really need it, the system will collapse as more and more fraudulently claim.