Newsnight 18Th October

[timebandit]

Did anyone catch the paper review. A reward of £250,000 if you can solve the euro crisis?

Lord Wolfson behind the prize, economists only

Emergency exit? That'll be £250000 | Business | guardian.co.uk

www.guardian.co.uk/business/...blog/.../wolfson-prize-to-exit-euro?...

7 hours ago - Economists can win £250000 by coming up with a way for debt-burdened ... leaders will come up with a long-term solution to the sovereign debt crisis any time soon. ... come up with the best way for a country to make an "orderly exit" from the euro. ... If you need help using the site: userhelp@guardian.co.uk; Call the main ...Guardian link fails to find the page

Edited October 18, 2011 by timebandit

[Authoritarian]

Easy, abolish the Euro, go back to national currencies, let foolish borrowers and lenders go bust and lock up directors of banks who have falsified accounts and traded whilst insolvent.

If they want to save the Euro just allow the indebted nations to default on or restructure their debts.

As an analogy the U.S dollar wouldn't crumble if an individual state went bust, bondholders would lose money and that would be the end of it.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Authoritarian

[leicestersq]

If they want to save the Euro just allow the indebted nations to default on or restructure their debts.

As an analogy the U.S dollar wouldn't crumble if an individual state went bust, bondholders would lose money and that would be the end of it.

Your solution still leaves the issue of imbalances within the eurozone. It would either be solved by people migrating en masse to the creditor nations such as Germany, or by the imposition of a European government. Both of those outcomes cause big problems, and a central government is likely to be so corrupt that you will need to find a better word than banana to describe the republic.

[Authoritarian]

Your solution still leaves the issue of imbalances within the eurozone. It would either be solved by people migrating en masse to the creditor nations such as Germany, or by the imposition of a European government. Both of those outcomes cause big problems, and a central government is likely to be so corrupt that you will need to find a better word than banana to describe the republic.

There are always wealth and population imbalances within and between economies, afaik upon reunification the whole of East Germany didn't move to the West and here in the UK those in poorer regions havn't migrated into the South East en masse.

Debt restructure would harm the creditor nations more deeply anyway, German taxpayers have been relying on Greek bond payouts to fund their retirement

[Injin]

"But how can you have political change without going along with what we already have?" bewildered Paxo doesn't get it. Which at least means he's honestly clueless rather than a shill. Fair play.

[oracle]

Did anyone catch the paper review. A reward of £250,000 if you can solve the euro crisis?

I will do it for free.

get rid of AL of the corporate shills,plus ALL of the former(and still active) communists.

after all,their solution to all of the euro's problems is....more power and more centralisation of power,when what is needed is exactly the opposite.

less is more,without all the reams of pointless diktat(blowing up baloons to be made illegal for under 8's etc...how absurd!).....we are PAYING people to legislate this garbage!

[The Spaniard]

... bewildered Paxo doesn't get it. Which at least means he's honestly clueless rather than a shill. Fair play.

A few years ago on Newsnight he was wandering around some dealing room in the City expressing his utter bewilderment about how such widespread and frenetic activity 'created wealth.'

He just doesn't understand the City's money spigots and how so many non-producers can syphon off a good living from them by typing at their computers.

Of course if he did understand he wouldn't be allowed to host Newsnight.

['Bart']

but these people are anti-capitalist

I thought they were anti-Wall Street criminality and corruption?

[Gone baby gone]

He just doesn't understand the City's money spigots and how so many non-producers can syphon off a good living from them by typing at their computers.

Maybe he just didn't understand how that could be sustainable.

Oooops. Turns out the emperor has no clothes and the little boy Paxman was right

[SpewLabour]

And your ability to sound off on here is due to a socialist inspired system of free education and health care. Should it stop you doing so?

Not mine. Went to a public school and have private healthcare, old bean. The comps round my way are dire.

[Stop The Ride]

Not mine. Went to a public school and have private healthcare, old bean. The comps round my way are dire.

Best of luck with that if you ever find yourself needing a blue light ambulance or an intensive care bed.

[MrWallace]

I think Michael Moore was right when he said that we he was a boy people didn't hate the rich. The rich built the factories and created jobs meaning that the American working class could have homes, cars and nice lives. Not only that but the rich also paid a lot more in taxes back then too.

But that just wasn't enough for the rich, they just had to have more and more, there was and is no such thing as enough for the owners of capital. They had to outsource the manufacturing jobs for cheaper and cheaper labour. They had to buy the politicians too and demand tax cut after tax cut from their political servants. Now people have just had enough and are saying this shit's got to go to paraphrase it. He's right, 'enough' is a dirty word in capitalism.

There are three main ways that the mega wealthy get their wealth -

1. Inheritance.

2. Creating it for themselves.

3. Redistributing it from others to themselves (usually via speculation).

We've always had inheritance (although many of the mega wealthy are now asking that inheritance tax be scrapped) but it seems to me that creating wealth has been largely replaced by the redistribution of wealth in recent years.

How many of today's super rich built up companies creating products and performing services that people want or need? Not as many as there once were. It seems that now people get super rich by speculating via hedge funds which creates almost nothing except a large profit for them at someone else's expense.

How many property millionaires were property developers building new homes, and how many were simply property speculators flipping properties during the bubble and BTLing?

In America the wealthiest 400 people have as much as the poorest 150,000,000 people. Yet multi-billionaires are still funding the likes of the Tea Party to demand that they be given more. And people have just had enough of it and are starting to say no more.

[Panda]

Paul Mason i think, but at the beginning, terrible reporting, just pure and utter spin bullsh!t......................

Good news for those in debt but bad news for savers......................Inflation hits 5.2%, your savings are now worth 5.2% less than a year ago, and the rest, but this is the best bit...........your debts are 5.2% less of a burden so less of or cheaper to have than a year ago.............along those lines.how the f00k does rising costs make your debt cheaper to hold, i give up, just pure and utter lies............

[tomandlu]

your debts are 5.2% less of a burden so less of or cheaper to have than a year ago.............along those lines.how the f00k does rising costs make your debt cheaper to hold, i give up, just pure and utter lies............

Well, in fairness the debt has gone down relative to assets - it's just your ability to service the debt has gone down even more...

[Panda]

Well, in fairness the debt has gone down relative to assets - it's just your ability to service the debt has gone down even more...

The cost of a pint has gone up 5.2%, the debt is constant, no wage rise then your ability to service is constant, the asset value (house) again a constant, how on earth has the debt gone down relative to the asset, the debt has gone down relative to a pint, but you do not get paid in pints and cannot pay down the debt in pints......

[Gone baby gone]

We've always had inheritance (although many of the mega wealthy are now asking that inheritance tax be scrapped) but it seems to me that creating wealth has been largely replaced by the redistribution of wealth in recent years.

An excellent post by MrWallace, this quoted section above is the most important part for me.

Weath in the west is not being created by adding value, or creating innovative new products or processes, but simply being moved from the people that do create and add value, to the speculators and their bagmen.

It's not going to end well.

[tomandlu]

The cost of a pint has gone up 5.2%, the debt is constant, no wage rise then your ability to service is constant, the asset value (house) again a constant, how on earth has the debt gone down relative to the asset, the debt has gone down relative to a pint, but you do not get paid in pints and cannot pay down the debt in pints......

I was being facetious - re-read my post. The debt may have fallen relative to the value of pretty much anything but cash (which is presumably the bit that Mason grasped), but your ability to service the debt has also fallen since you need to spend more of your (not-inflating) wages on essentials... (which is the bit Mason missed)

[Panda]

I was being facetious - re-read my post. The debt may have fallen relative to the value of pretty much anything but cash (which is presumably the bit that Mason grasped), but your ability to service the debt has also fallen since you need to spend more of your (not-inflating) wages on essentials... (which is the bit Mason missed)

But if Mason cannot grasp this what chance has Paxo or the man on the street...........Yes cash is wage...........which is falling in value relative to the cost of staying alive. So debt is getting ever increasingly a struggle to service, the complete opposite to the spin last night...........

[tomandlu]

But if Mason cannot grasp this what chance has Paxo or the man on the street...........Yes cash is wage...........which is falling in value relative to the cost of staying alive. So debt is getting ever increasingly a struggle to service, the complete opposite to the spin last night...........

TBH it shouldn't be that hard, it's not rocket science... I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories, but it does seem odd that this essential truth is not more widely expressed.