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timebandit

Newsnight 18Th October

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well I know public sector enriched council officers and others with very good salaries, and property owners very happy to see later generations locked out, very happy to live off governmenmt borrowing their whole lives

now the party is over they blame capitalism

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Film maker Michael Moore just tweeted that he's on Newsnight tonight.

oh - that leftie who got all his wealth, all his opportunities, from capitalism? (his dad was a manager at General motors AFAIK and he has a nice rather well off middle class capitalist background)

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oh yes

seen the preamble to the programme - the protestors are sleeping in mass market tents, ie made in cheap countries owing to the abilites of the global market and banking to make this possible

so their opportunity to go camping cheaply is made by the very system they despise

ha ha

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oh yes

seen the preamble to the programme - the protestors are sleeping in mass market tents, ie made in cheap countries owing to the abilites of the global market and banking to make this possible

so their opportunity to go camping cheaply is made by the very system they despise

ha ha

William Wilberforce's ancestors most likely benefited from slavery.

I can understand why people don't like Moore but that isn't a great reason.

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oh - that leftie who got all his wealth, all his opportunities, from capitalism? (his dad was a manager at General motors AFAIK and he has a nice rather well off middle class capitalist background)

There's nowt capitalist about a bank bailout, or a GM bailout for that matter.

But I will be frustrated if Moore blames capitalism (as is likely).

I don't like capitalism, and I don't like socialism. But I don't think we've had either.

What we have had is a banking sector gaming a flaw in the monetary system, by printing money via FRB and creating fraudulent credit etc, undermining the free market principle.

Edited by worst time buyer

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oh yes

seen the preamble to the programme - the protestors are sleeping in mass market tents, ie made in cheap countries owing to the abilites of the global market and banking to make this possible

so their opportunity to go camping cheaply is made by the very system they despise

ha ha

And your ability to sound off on here is due to a socialist inspired system of free education and health care. Should it stop you doing so?

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And your ability to sound off on here is due to a socialist inspired system of free education and health care. Should it stop you doing so?

if I were to object to universal healthcare, then my argument would have almost no moral weight on account of the fact I have clearly benefitted from it - so yeah we need a little bit of socialism

but these people are anti-capitalist, explicitly rejecting the source of their opportunity, whereas I do not explicitly object to universal healthcare, by comparison

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Film maker Michael Moore just tweeted that he's on Newsnight tonight.

Interesting that he highlighted that the problem is what we would call 'crony capitalism' (EDIT: he said not the Adam Smith sort, which is good to hear). I'm agreeing with him that the political system has failed. I feel a bit dirty! :ph34r:

I wonder how long it will be before people see that the answer is having no state, where people get an equal representation? Tick, tock, tick, tock...

Edited by Traktion

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I wonder how long it will be before people see that the answer is having no state, where people get an equal representation? Tick, tock, tick, tock...

No chance. It's a ridiculous idea.

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To be honest I always think the tit-for-tat socialism / capitalism stuff on here is a red herring.

Face it - if you believe in any kind of fairness, equality and decency, you have more in common with most of the people on this site than Tony Blair, Cameron, Bob Diamond, Polly tonynbublle, etc. etc. etc.

It's the utter corruptness of this present system that is the problem. The collapse of the evil Moscow empire was the start, this is act two.

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I tend towards libertarianism and I agree with him too. Corporations and states are evil fictions.

The system can end. Look what happened to monarchy.

Bad example. We still live in a monarchy....

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I wonder how long it will be before people see that the answer is having no state, where people get an equal representation? Tick, tock, tick, tock...

People aren't ready for that.

But a state structure like Switzerland has, where most power is distributed at council and cantonal level (with ample direct participation rights for the citizens) rather than at federal level would be a great step forward.

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I tend towards libertarianism and I agree with him too. Corporations and states are evil fictions.

The system can end. Look what happened to monarchy.

Nothing is ever forever, even empires. At some point they break and fail.

Like most people I'd like a fair and nice world, trouble is too many sociopaths out there to hijack simple ideas.

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People aren't ready for that.

But a state structure like Switzerland has, where most power is distributed at council and cantonal level (with ample direct participation rights for the citizens) rather than at federal level would be a great step forward.

I do agreew with true localism

however, swiss banmks still contributed massively to the debt bubble and carry trade

the problem runs deeper

my own opinion is that, apart from you being right, above, capitalism is the answer to abuses of capitalism; responsibility in government, i s'ppose this can come out of better democracy like you say, but at the same time in practice I did not see it happening???

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People aren't ready for that.

But a state structure like Switzerland has, where most power is distributed at council and cantonal level (with ample direct participation rights for the citizens) rather than at federal level would be a great step forward.

But they still bailed out UBS and Credit Suisse, and have pegged their currency to the € in the ultimate bailout.

There is no connection between democracy and the banking system anywhere.

Conclusion: abolish central banks.

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I do agreew with true localism

however, swiss banks still contributed massively to the debt bubble and carry trade

Swiss banks (I assume you mean CS and UBS) have nothing to do with the Swiss state structure, you are confusing apples with oranges.

CS and UBS are global corporations these days, they do actually most of their business in London and NY (and therefore following UK and US banking regulations).

Of course the banking system (and even more so the monetary system) need to be reformed too, but that's a separate issue from the political state structure.

Edited by awake_eagle

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Did anyone catch the paper review. A reward of £250,000 if you can solve the euro crisis?

One way or the other, the Euro crisis will be solved. Whether £250,000 will be worth anything at that time is another question.

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But they still bailed out UBS and Credit Suisse, and have pegged their currency to the € in the ultimate bailout.

Only UBS received temporary support (which UBS have already paid back with interest, the Swiss government made a nice profit from it), CS was helped by some Arab investment fund. But this is beside the issue, what I'm talking about is keeping most of the political power at local level were direct participation by the citizens is realistically possible, rather than concentrating all power with the state government where only big-money lobby have influence.

The currency peg was forced by external events, there is no way the Swiss export oriented economy could have survived those exchange rates for much longer.

There is no connection between democracy and the banking system anywhere.

That's correct and that certainly needs to be addressed.

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Did anyone catch the paper review. A reward of £250,000 if you can solve the euro crisis?

Easy, abolish the Euro, go back to national currencies, let foolish borrowers and lenders go bust and lock up directors of banks who have falsified accounts and traded whilst insolvent.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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