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Energy Prices 'relatively Good'

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Minister Chris Huhne claims energy prices 'relatively good'

Chris Huhne, the Energy Secretary, has claimed that British householders are enjoying “relatively good electricity and gas prices” compared to other countries – despite growing anger over spiralling costs.

But he said he wanted a "much clearer, fairer and much more competitive retail market".

Speaking ahead of a summit with the “Big Six” power firms, Mr Huhne said that more competition could bring an “even better deal” for consumers.

Mr Huhne has previously blamed lazy consumers for high energy bills because they fail to shop around for the best deals.

He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “We want people to check their tariffs, switch to cheaper tariffs and take advantage of the free offers there are to insulate their homes.”

Mr Huhne said energy companies were “not the Salvation Army”.

“We expect them to earn respectable returns for their shareholders but they need to be operating in a fair and competitive market.”

Mr Huhne added: "I'm determined that we have a much clearer, fairer and much more competitive retail market so that consumers can switch more easily with simpler tariffs and get better deals."

He told Today: “We have already got, compared to other countries, relatively good electricity and gas prices.”

His words were in stark contrast to a joint article written with Prime Minister David Cameron ahead of the summit, noting that energy bills had increased by more than £100 for most people since this summer.

“These price rises couldn’t come at a worse time for consumers who are already feeling the pinch from rising petrol prices and the cost of the weekly shop,” said the article, on the moneysavingexpert.com website.

It added: “We are determined that everything that can be done will be done to help people bring their energy bills down.”

Mr Huhne pointed out in his radio interview today that 99% of people are supplied by the Big Six firms, and 85% do not switch providers.

It echoed comments he made last month, when he blamed consumers for spending “less time shopping around for a bill that’s on average more than £1,000 a year than they would shop around for a £25 toaster”.

Ofgem, Britain’s energy regulator, said last week that firms were making profit margins of £125 a year from every household, up from just £15 in June.

Shadow energy secretary Caroline Flint said: "The Government's warm words won't heat homes during a bitter winter.

"They're unable to take on vested interests, they won't tackle the spiralling prices imposed by the energy giants, they won't investigate the mis-selling of energy and they won't help the pensioners whose winter fuel payments have been cut.

Meanwhile, environmental group Friends of the Earth has warned that household energy bills could rise by £300 a year by 2020 if Britain continues to rely on fossil fuels.

Its our fault for not switching every 3 days to get a better deal,

the guy is a complete ass hat,

yes its easy to compare prices of toasters that are £25, it easy to comparep rices of most retail purchased procudes, as its the price you pay for what oyu want, and not hidden in double speak and bands of rates.

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I've always thought that more people would likely switch if limits were imposed on the utility companies. e.g they can only release <= 3 different tariffs per yr. It would be less confusing for most.

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Average per household for a year of electricity and gas is about £1300 I think ?

Is that bad or good - when you stand back and look at what you get for it compared to the average household earnings ?

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Read in the paper this sunday that the swedes pay 4x as much for their gas as we do. Wonder how that compares across europe.

It's completely different over there, most Swedes have electric heating and extremely well insulated houses. Gas is only available in small parts of the major cities. Link As a minority fuel, you might expect gas to be more expensive due to the lack of economies of scale.

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well I've decided to jump from E.On, after they have just given me 2 weeks notice of an increase to my DD of £70 PER MONTH. Do I feel like I'm going to get £840 worth of extra benefit next year?

No.

So I've moved to a supplier that will leave me pretty much where I am now, for the next year guaranteed.

steve

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It's completely different over there, most Swedes have electric heating and extremely well insulated houses. Gas is only available in small parts of the major cities. Link As a minority fuel, you might expect gas to be more expensive due to the lack of economies of scale.

OK - sounds like Tory propaganda then ...

But ... I'd still be interested in seeing cost per kw/h across europe. Saying that, you still probably wouldn't get a fair comparison, as in places like Finland (which I believe is largely nuclear) some of the proportion of costs may be met by the taxpayer as opposed to the individual.

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well I've decided to jump from E.On, after they have just given me 2 weeks notice of an increase to my DD of £70 PER MONTH. Do I feel like I'm going to get £840 worth of extra benefit next year?

No.

So I've moved to a supplier that will leave me pretty much where I am now, for the next year guaranteed.

steve

We moved to a new supplier (OVO) and fixed until Jan next year, so much cheaper than when we were with SSE. Enter our reading online each month and so far this year averaging £35 per month (£23 elec £12 gas) That was our bill for last month. Expect it to go up as we hit winter but nothing compared to our old supplier. Is worth shopping around (and stop keeping everything on standby) :)

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Minister Chris Huhne claims energy prices 'relatively good', Its our fault for not switching every 3 days to get a better deal,

the guy is a complete ass hat,

yes its easy to compare prices of toasters that are £25, it easy to compare rices of most retail purchased procudes, as its the price you pay for what you want, and not hidden in double speak and bands of rates.

The excitement is going to come as more and more of our older electric plants reach either end-of-life (Nuclear), or no longer allowed under EU law (Older coal). On the bright side, your electric bill is zero during a rolling blackout, plus your gas bill will be low because your central heating won't work.

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Average per household for a year of electricity and gas is about £1300 I think ?

Is that bad or good - when you stand back and look at what you get for it compared to the average household earnings ?

A lot of things are good value vs your own labour

An ipod is practically a supercomputer that you personally could never build it rival. Even charging a million dollars for it is cheap by that metric

Electricity/gas and the supermarkets are monopolies because no one else can realistically enter the market due to rules regulations and the simply technology limitation (powrrplants come in certain sizes and building an additional unit can tank the market so first entrants are at an advantage)

In the UK marginal cost of producing electricity is about 4p while you pay 12p. The 8p is fluff & profit

Were it a truly competitive field you would likely see that half to around 4p (which is roughly what the panks pay)

And electricity/gas in the UK should be more competitive than Europe because we are one of the largest markets (biggest for gas) and the closest to the north sea deposits. Plus the UK has a lot of new gas plants operating at 58% efficiency while Germany is stuck with 35% efficiency coal plants.

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Read in the paper this sunday that the swedes pay 4x as much for their gas as we do. Wonder how that compares across europe.

I don't know if that's true, but it's plausible.

The swedes have history on their side. They don't have our tradition of burning energy like there's no tomorrow and bleeding hearts wailing at any threat to your right to do that. They do have a long history of hugely better-insulated houses that were warmer than ours even when I lived there as a child.

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Minister Chris Huhne claims energy prices 'relatively good'

Its our fault for not switching every 3 days to get a better deal,

the guy is a complete ass hat,

yes its easy to compare prices of toasters that are £25, it easy to comparep rices of most retail purchased procudes, as its the price you pay for what oyu want, and not hidden in double speak and bands of rates.

You all know how fair the UK Govt spivs for Big Business are to the sheep (the fleecing wolves watch over) when UK Govt flogs all UK's gas reserves all summer to the Netherlands and other low countries sold at the lowest summer gas prices for them to refill their gas tanks for the winter.

British consumer mugs are forced to pay for top price winter gas as UK Govt does not see any reason for UK summer storage/reserve or why UK consumers should get any cheap North Sea gas!

We don't owe any allegience to these companies as they are all secretly ultimately foreign owned, off-shore UK tax dodging - making the rich richer.

You NEVER see them take a hit on profits - its whack up the price within a few days of announcement not a sharing of austerity.

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I don't know if that's true, but it's plausible.

The swedes have history on their side. They don't have our tradition of burning energy like there's no tomorrow and bleeding hearts wailing at any threat to your right to do that. They do have a long history of hugely better-insulated houses that were warmer than ours even when I lived there as a child.

High prices are their own cure. Put them up to much, people will either switch or cut back. And it is amazing how excess profits can encourage suppliers to come into what appears to be a closed market from left field.

Petrol use was once described as inelastic. High prices have shown just how demand falls as prices rise, I am sure the same can be true of electricity and gas. Just so long as the user is the one that pays, rather than the taxpayer.

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The excitement is going to come as more and more of our older electric plants reach either end-of-life (Nuclear), or no longer allowed under EU law (Older coal). On the bright side, your electric bill is zero during a rolling blackout, plus your gas bill will be low because your central heating won't work.

You need to understand electricity demand varies greatly through the day and to a certain degree through the seasons

The low is about 20GW while the high about 60GW.

This means the vast majority of the time we have a lot of spare capacity.

In a year there is 8760 hours and only about 60 of those are stressed.

So the UK electricity grid is v.v.very robust.

Not to mention the near 5GW of capacity added in the last couple of years & the break britned interconnector

People who proclaim blackout are on thy way are those that have little understanding of the grid

Also the UK nukes lifetimes will be extended I wouldn't be surprised if they got another 20 years out them. New nukes are unlikely. Coal will be easily replaced by gas & to a large degree we don't need any new plants we can run the current ones at higher capacity

Btw the UK has built quite a lot recently in the form of gas plants and also the new britned interconnector had added 1GW to capacity.

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You all know how fair the UK Govt spivs for Big Business are to the sheep (the fleecing wolves watch over) when UK Govt flogs all UK's gas reserves all summer to the Netherlands and other low countries sold at the lowest summer gas prices for them to refill their gas tanks for the winter.

British consumer mugs are forced to pay for top price winter gas as UK Govt does not see any reason for UK summer storage/reserve or why UK consumers should get any cheap North Sea gas!

We don't owe any allegience to these companies as they are all secretly ultimately foreign owned, off-shore UK tax dodging - making the rich richer.

You NEVER see them take a hit on profits - its whack up the price within a few days of announcement not a sharing of austerity.

The UK doesn't export a lot of gas during the summer at 'cheap prices'

The UK just produces less gas from the north sea during summer so it can produce more in the winter. The north sea is our natural storage which is probably bigger than most other countries artificial storage

Also the UK is a transit hub for other countries north sea gas. So we import from there & export to Europe & presumably collect a small fee for it

Ironically if you want cheaper winter gas prices you need more coal plants across Europe. They can be ramped up during winter or even sit idle most the year and ramp up during the 4 coldest months. Europe shouldn't force its coal plants to shut. If there is a will from EU citizens to see coal phased out we should at least be smart and allow them to work for the 3 cold months. That would make Europe electric grid far more secure and the winter gas price rise would be greatly depressed

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Minister Chris Huhne claims energy prices 'relatively good'

Its our fault for not switching every 3 days to get a better deal,

the guy is a complete ass hat,

yes its easy to compare prices of toasters that are £25, it easy to comparep rices of most retail purchased procudes, as its the price you pay for what oyu want, and not hidden in double speak and bands of rates.

One of the problems with energy supply we gave up to much of our self sufficiency (eg closing almost all our mines) which gave energy speculators a free hand to how much they can charge for wholesale energy.This was done by the same goverment who are now saying they want to help the consumer, they are just CROCODILE tears coming from the goverment,, they have JUST noticed that profit per household for the energy companies has gone up by over 700% . Rubbish they dont care less.

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High prices are their own cure. Put them up to much, people will either switch or cut back. And it is amazing how excess profits can encourage suppliers to come into what appears to be a closed market from left field.

Petrol use was once described as inelastic. High prices have shown just how demand falls as prices rise, I am sure the same can be true of electricity and gas. Just so long as the user is the one that pays, rather than the taxpayer.

Usage is only elastic if people see the price they pay. For most goods & services it is very clear what you pay but for power and gas abd petrol it isn't so clear

An example I know is my dumb young brother. He used to do a trip to work and back 20miles which took him about 50minutes each way

He then found a new route which had more motorway that took 40minutes but was 32 miles. That 10 minute saving cost him £3 every day in extra fuel. He doesnt even earn 3 quid per ten minutes at work!

Likewise said dumb brother likes to cruise at 95miles/ph which gets 45mpg in that car. Same car at 60mph gets 70mpg. Overall he could save a fiver a day in fuel just for a slightly longer journey time. Like million of others he wouldnt be able to make the link. To him if he pgsid attention at all it would be filling the tank every 4 days instead of every 5

Cars should state at the end of a trip what it cost in fuel. Consumption would go down quite a lot

The recent drop is probably more likely due to the increase in insurance.cost putting people off

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The excitement is going to come as more and more of our older electric plants reach either end-of-life (Nuclear), or no longer allowed under EU law (Older coal). On the bright side, your electric bill is zero during a rolling blackout, plus your gas bill will be low because your central heating won't work.

2015. That's when around half of our current capacity has to be shut down by.

Don't worry the government plans to pay the french to build new Nuclear plants to make up the difference. Except they take 10 years to build. And they still haven't decided where to build them yet.

Stock up on jumpers.

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Usage is only elastic if people see the price they pay. For most goods & services it is very clear what you pay but for power and gas abd petrol it isn't so clear

An example I know is my dumb young brother. He used to do a trip to work and back 20miles which took him about 50minutes each way

He then found a new route which had more motorway that took 40minutes but was 32 miles. That 10 minute saving cost him £3 every day in extra fuel. He doesnt even earn 3 quid per ten minutes at work!

Likewise said dumb brother likes to cruise at 95miles/ph which gets 45mpg in that car. Same car at 60mph gets 70mpg. Overall he could save a fiver a day in fuel just for a slightly longer journey time. Like million of others he wouldnt be able to make the link. To him if he pgsid attention at all it would be filling the tank every 4 days instead of every 5

Cars should state at the end of a trip what it cost in fuel. Consumption would go down quite a lot

The recent drop is probably more likely due to the increase in insurance.cost putting people off

People may not always be able to make the link directly, but enough people do for it to make a difference. They do read their bills, they do see how much has been taken out of their accounts. If they have a squeeze on due to lower incomes, or just because they have overspent, the fuel bills will be taken into consideration.

Suppliers too will look at the high prices that can be charged, and see if an opportunity can be seized. Not easy when profit margins are tight, but worth considering when they are fat and juicy. Charge too high for too long, and you will almost certainly lose your customers one way or another.

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2015. That's when around half of our current capacity has to be shut down by.

Don't worry the government plans to pay the french to build new Nuclear plants to make up the difference. Except they take 10 years to build. And they still haven't decided where to build them yet.

Stock up on jumpers.

It does not take 10 years to build more interconnectors between us and france as we have now and let them supply us with more energy.More reliance on abroad again, and charge us at premium rates again.

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People may not always be able to make the link directly, but enough people do for it to make a difference. They do read their bills, they do see how much has been taken out of their accounts. If they have a squeeze on due to lower incomes, or just because they have overspent, the fuel bills will be taken into consideration.

Suppliers too will look at the high prices that can be charged, and see if an opportunity can be seized. Not easy when profit margins are tight, but worth considering when they are fat and juicy. Charge too high for too long, and you will almost certainly lose your customers one way or another.

Who will they lose them to, another of the same of course, get real.

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Minister Chris Huhne claims energy prices 'relatively good'

Its our fault for not switching every 3 days to get a better deal,

Did MPs always shop around for the best deals for their flipping second homes when they were stealing our money via their expenses?

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It does not take 10 years to build more interconnectors between us and france as we have now and let them supply us with more energy.More reliance on abroad again, and charge us at premium rates again.

French nukes operate at 74% of capacity but have availability is 84% and in theory could achieve 94% (yanks have fleet average above 92%)

That in practise means French nukes are shut at weekends or operate at below rated capacity

Overall if France had more interconnections to Europe they could instantly output another 6GW average & if they get their house in order then they could output 12GW to the rest of Europe more than they do now. Whats more is if they uprate the reactors like the yanks have done that's yet another 6 GW

In total with a little will & with a little investment (perhaps as low as 5 billion) France could be supplying an additional 150-180TWH of electricity to Europe. It could all be done in under 5 years and most completed in under 3 years.

That's equivalent to about 80GW of wind (about 30.000 big turbines) which would cost more than 50B.

But why do things like that when the government is guaranteeing you profits to build all manor of crap things

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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