Guest_ringledman_* Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Apologies if previously posted. Excellent graph of government BS of inflation since the early 80s - http://www.bmgbullion.com/library_images/x_550/967.jpg Applies to the USA but no doubt a similar story for the UK. 10% inflation rate, sounds about right for the UK currently? I would say our current real inflation rate is in the order of 10% once the real spend items are accounted for - Inflation Petrol Food and Drink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGGY Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Apologies if previously posted. Excellent graph of government BS of inflation since the early 80s - http://www.bmgbullion.com/library_images/x_550/967.jpg Applies to the USA but no doubt a similar story for the UK. 10% inflation rate, sounds about right for the UK currently? I would say our current real inflation rate is in the order of 10% once the real spend items are accounted for - Inflation Petrol Food and Drink Um, they are in our inflation figures, they are not in US core inflation whihc is different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Um, they are in our inflation figures, they are not in US core inflation whihc is different why is it different...surely the supply of money v the creation of wealth is the same in any language? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I guess there are years when it does nothing and years where it does a lot. When i started driving ten years ago petrol was ~65-70ppl. Now its double that. So thats about 10% a year. But oil itself was cheap 10 years ago. Cheaper than since before the 70s oil shocks. Not sure what oil should be price wise. Before QE it did go down from $147/barrel to $33/barrel. Education costs a lot more now. Plus the accomodation. Accomodation doubled since i left uni (2006) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 You cannot lie with numbers they will always catch you out in the end and we have been caught out now. If we had had the true figures , wages would be higher , Interest rates higher which would have led to people being less inclined to borrow higher multiples of earnings and hence lower house prices. The system and the free markets ( something that the capatilists say they love ) would have found their own true level in wages, house prices ect and it would have carried on working like it did prior to the lies. They rigged a free market and now we all pay the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGGY Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 why is it different...surely the supply of money v the creation of wealth is the same in any language? You miss my point, I agree inflation is above the stated level but you cant compare the lies of the US inflation with the lies of the UK inflation (note they are both lies). We fudge the numbers in a different way but the OP makes out like we dont include the eblow in the inflation figures whihc we do I would say our current real inflation rate is in the order of 10% once the real spend items are accounted for -Inflation Petrol Food and Drink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I guess there are years when it does nothing and years where it does a lot. When i started driving ten years ago petrol was ~65-70ppl. Now its double that. So thats about 10% a year. Compounded interest says its just below 7% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Compounded interest says its just below 7% A lot more than the 2 - 3 % we get told about then . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 You cannot lie with numbers they will always catch you out in the end and we have been caught out now. If we had had the true figures , wages would be higher , Interest rates higher which would have led to people being less inclined to borrow higher multiples of earnings and hence lower house prices. The system and the free markets ( something that the capatilists say they love ) would have found their own true level in wages, house prices ect and it would have carried on working like it did prior to the lies. They rigged a free market and now we all pay the price. Absolutely. It's always been about the maths, people have been sold down the river. Why? Inflation has always been well above official figures, it's the kind of dissonance that brought me here in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Underlying inflation let rip in he noughties, after Gordon abandoned Prudence. It passed 10% around (from memory) the start of 2004, and was around 14-15% by the time of the first (small) house price correction in 2005. It was masked in the CPI/RPI by ever-cheaper imports, and by Blair Feelgood policies like forcing utility prices down at the expense of building up a backlog of investment and maintenance. To say our interest rate policy was tied to Chinese manufacturing would be an exaggeration, but probably closer to the truth than to say it was working for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) Apologies if previously posted. Excellent graph of government BS of inflation since the early 80s - http://www.bmgbullion.com/library_images/x_550/967.jpg Applies to the USA but no doubt a similar story for the UK. 10% inflation rate, sounds about right for the UK currently? I would say our current real inflation rate is in the order of 10% once the real spend items are accounted for - Inflation Petrol Food and Drink ...Tescos just put up the price of decaf Kenco 200g Instant Filter Coffee from £5 to £7...that's 40% .... ..check it out in their Branch near you in case you don't believe it...£3.50 a 100g ....they are joking.... Edited October 16, 2011 by South Lorne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Like the Caecescu government in Romania in the 80's.. It is getting harder for our government to lie about the real state of the economy. Its hard to tell people prices are not increasing if they outright see prices jumping on things they buy everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caparn Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Excellent graph of government BS of inflation since the early 80s - http://www.bmgbullion.com/library_images/x_550/967.jpg Applies to the USA but no doubt a similar story for the UK. There is no reason it should be similar, it just depends what's in the "shopping basket". The US removed all food from the basket as they said it was too volatile to be included and this is one of the main drivers for inflation in the old shopping basket. The UK has not removed food. However, the new things they add to the basket always seem to be prime examples of things that are going to drop in price, for example blu-ray players, memory cards etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caparn Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 ...Tescos just put up the price of decaf Kenco 200g Instant Filter Coffee from £5 to £7...that's 40% .... ..check it out in their Branch near you in case you don't believe it...£3.50 a 100g ....they are joking.... Just switch to another brand of coffee then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlethefigures Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I chose my HPC name to fiddlethefigures in 2004 because i knew the inflation figures were being fiddled to keep interest rates down. What is the Real Definition of Inflation? Webster's 1983 Definition of Inflation According to Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary published in 1983 the second definition of "inflation" after "the act of inflating or the condition of being inflated" is: "An increase in the amount of currency in circulation, resulting in a relatively sharp and sudden fall in its value and rise in prices: it may be caused by an increase in the volume of paper money issued or of gold mined, or a relative increase in expenditures as when the supply of goods fails to meet the demand. This definition includes some of the basic economics of inflation and would seem to indicate that inflation is not defined as the increase in prices but as the increase in the supply of money that causes the increase in prices i.e. inflation is a cause rather than an effect. Webster's 2000 Definition of Inflation However, The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, Copyright © 2000 Published by Houghton Mifflin Company says: Inflation: 2) A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services. In this definition, inflation would appear to be the consequence or result (rising prices) rather than the cause. Shifty Words So between 1983 and 2000 the definition appears to have shifted from the cause to the result. Also note that the cause could be either an increase in money supply or a decrease in available goods and services. http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Articles/Inflation_Definition.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlethefigures Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 What is the Real Definition of Inflation? Webster's 1983 Definition of Inflation According to Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary published in 1983 the second definition of "inflation" after "the act of inflating or the condition of being inflated" is: "An increase in the amount of currency in circulation, resulting in a relatively sharp and sudden fall in its value and rise in prices: it may be caused by an increase in the volume of paper money issued or of gold mined, or a relative increase in expenditures as when the supply of goods fails to meet the demand. This definition includes some of the basic economics of inflation and would seem to indicate that inflation is not defined as the increase in prices but as the increase in the supply of money that causes the increase in prices i.e. inflation is a cause rather than an effect. Webster's 2000 Definition of Inflation However, The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, Copyright © 2000 Published by Houghton Mifflin Company says: Inflation: 2) A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services. In this definition, inflation would appear to be the consequence or result (rising prices) rather than the cause. Shifty Words So between 1983 and 2000 the definition appears to have shifted from the cause to the result. Also note that the cause could be either an increase in money supply or a decrease in available goods and services. http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Articles/Inflation_Definition.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 "Official" inflation is hovering around 5%, possibly breaking that and going to 5.1 / 5.2%. Last time the official figures showed that level of inflation (probably a half to a third of the real effective rate for most poeple) was Septemeber 2008. We know what happened then. I believe inflation hitting people's ability to overextend themseleves was the real reason the debt complex folded last time - that inflationary shock forced people to scale back regardless how much credit was available during early 2008. The Chinese product effect of reducing the inflation during the noughties - most of that was declining product quality - there were (and still are) a hell of a lot of truly awful products / materials / specced equipment during that period, some of it just junk shaped like the orignal product. Thus even through the noughties those manufactured goods deflationary effects were totally overstated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlethefigures Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Articles/Inflation_Definition.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlethefigures Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 inflation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 when I first published here my food parcel, I could buy 205g of butter, most brands at £1 OR LESS. I could search shops and find it at that price till about early last year. Today, most brands are £1.50 or less. thats a 50% rise since 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneTracy Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 As well as inflation probably being at a higher level than we are told I was reading recently that there are dangers in our price chain. Here is an example. Inflation is not yet dead in the UKThe Governor of the Bank of England told us that inflation would soon die down in the UK in his television interviews yesterday. I pointed out yesterday that he has been saying this for several years and it would have been hard for him to have been more wrong. He has been an anti-seer. Today we saw these producer price inflation numbers for the UK from the Office for National Statistics. Output price ‘factory gate’ annual inflation for all manufactured products rose 6.3 per cent in the year to September 2011. Input price annual inflation rose 17.5 per cent in September Both numbers are up considerably on the numbers reported for August which were 6.1% and 16.2% respectively. So as you can see the situation in the UK price chain is deteriorating rather than improving as the Governor implied. http://goo.gl/2Pgpy So it would appear that not only have we not been told the truth about what has happened we have also not been told the truth about the likely future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 As well as inflation probably being at a higher level than we are told I was reading recently that there are dangers in our price chain. Here is an example. While I find your quote credible, it would be better with an attribution. I don't want to click on some dodgy redirector link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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