Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
dredwerker

Lloyds Want To Reduce My Overdraft

Recommended Posts

It always takes me a while to get money out of the people I work for. This time it took several months and because I nigh on earn nothing it doesnt put me in the black either.

Anyway Lloyds said they would remove my overdraft if I didn't pay anything in. Around about the same time I happened to put £1k in so I thought that would be the end of it as I will get another £1k in a month thereby roughly making an overdraft of nothing.

Just got a letter saying can I phone them as they missed me.

I feel like mentioning the fact that they have been downgraded - let alone worrying about my situation I should be worried about who I hold my overdraft with :)

I have been with Lloyds for 15 years and it prob means nothing.

More broadly isn't it scary that they are worried about a couple of thousand quid? I think its prudent - don't get me wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got a letter today from ING asking me if I'd like to rejoin their mailing list that I opted out of...

'We thought the decent thing to do was double check as we don't want you to miss out'

:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It always takes me a while to get money out of the people I work for. This time it took several months and because I nigh on earn nothing it doesnt put me in the black either.

Anyway Lloyds said they would remove my overdraft if I didn't pay anything in. Around about the same time I happened to put £1k in so I thought that would be the end of it as I will get another £1k in a month thereby roughly making an overdraft of nothing.

Just got a letter saying can I phone them as they missed me.

I feel like mentioning the fact that they have been downgraded - let alone worrying about my situation I should be worried about who I hold my overdraft with :)

I have been with Lloyds for 15 years and it prob means nothing.

More broadly isn't it scary that they are worried about a couple of thousand quid? I think its prudent - don't get me wrong.

They want to charge you unauthorised overdraft charges, to do that first they need to take your exisiting line of credit away from you and knowing that you are likely to need reserves then ****** you over each time it occurs.

Edit have a look if there is anyway you can smooth your cashflow - split up invoices into smaller payable tranches to bring forward payent dates, get some more work by whatever means you have to build up at least a bit of a buffer.

Edited by OnlyMe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They want to charge you unauthorised overdraft charges, to do that first they need to take your exisiting line of credit away from you and knowing that you are likely to need reserves then ****** you over each time it occurs.

Edit have a look if there is anyway you can smooth your cashflow - split up invoices into smaller payable tranches to bring forward payent dates, get some more work by whatever means you have to build up at least a bit of a buffer.

Absolutely. Unauthorised overdraft charges, of all sorts, rake in a fortune for banks.

Also, I wonder whether banks have to record a total of the overdraft facilities their customers have - the total they have already authorised customers to borrow by one particular means. If they do, and this looked too big, it might be bad for a bank that's just had its credit rating lowered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know someone who works for one of the large banks. It shall remain nameless for the purposes of this thread.

They recently did some 'back to the floor' or whatever nonsense with people who do the lending for small to medium business. General chat was the businesses they are dealing with just do not WANT to borrow money. They are actively trying but businesses are not interested. They don't want more debt and want to concentrate on paying off what they have. In general.

Debt revulsion stage arrived for business ? And if so - how long till we get there for individuals..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know someone who works for one of the large banks. It shall remain nameless for the purposes of this thread.

They recently did some 'back to the floor' or whatever nonsense with people who do the lending for small to medium business. General chat was the businesses they are dealing with just do not WANT to borrow money. They are actively trying but businesses are not interested. They don't want more debt and want to concentrate on paying off what they have. In general.

Debt revulsion stage arrived for business ? And if so - how long till we get there for individuals..

Businesses get 0% on deposit and then get screwed for 20%+ on overdraft.

It is not worth outborrowing your competition becuase the returns are not there unless you can borrow extreme amounts and just default asn walk away with.

The four eyed fukwits like mervyn have not clue how much they have and are continuing to bastardise the economy, this is an economy for crooks and liars, for defaulters and manipultors, not for business. If anything the low rates are creating even oore problems for business becuase funds are being used to chase business that is not going to provide an economic return and which takes no account of the the risk, it will lead to more default and more losses over a wider range of businesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They want to charge you unauthorised overdraft charges, to do that first they need to take your exisiting line of credit away from you and knowing that you are likely to need reserves then ****** you over each time it occurs.

Edit have a look if there is anyway you can smooth your cashflow - split up invoices into smaller payable tranches to bring forward payent dates, get some more work by whatever means you have to build up at least a bit of a buffer.

Absolutely I am trying this. The prob I have is getting enough money to split it up. I am having a crisis of what is my job any more which is a diff thread I suppose. Although I would be interested in an ICT/Business offtopic subforum. Maybe there is one - I shall have a look.

I suppose you are right about the charges - reduce the overdraft then charge £25 a sec for being over it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely I am trying this. The prob I have is getting enough money to split it up. I am having a crisis of what is my job any more which is a diff thread I suppose. Although I would be interested in an ICT/Business offtopic subforum. Maybe there is one - I shall have a look.

I suppose you are right about the charges - reduce the overdraft then charge £25 a sec for being over it :)

yep...this happened in GC1.....small firms really needing help, and the bank pulls the overdraft....it starts off like your case, but NEXT they will take your cash payment and decrease your OD by the amount you just paid in....it was like you never got paid.

Welcome to bankers land.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yep...this happened in GC1.....small firms really needing help, and the bank pulls the overdraft....it starts off like your case, but NEXT they will take your cash payment and decrease your OD by the amount you just paid in....it was like you never got paid.

Welcome to bankers land.

It is one way they can keep squeezing the small companies to exert pressure on the government to continue bailing them out - thus far it has worked.

We haven't seen the full downsides yet though.

Bank runs when not only do participants refuse to take credit they refuse to use the banks or give them access to their money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely I am trying this. The prob I have is getting enough money to split it up. I am having a crisis of what is my job any more which is a diff thread I suppose. Although I would be interested in an ICT/Business offtopic subforum. Maybe there is one - I shall have a look.

I suppose you are right about the charges - reduce the overdraft then charge £25 a sec for being over it :)

Have you tried a factoring company? You get paid on the nail but you have to discount the invoices to them.

I thought about this once some years ago when I had a small biz. Cash flow is always a problem - my clients paid horribly slowly. I guess with bank charges today using a factor might be cheaper than paying for an overdraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree with that. In order to meet government demands they are pre-selecting and trying to push debt onto businesses with excellent collateral, profits and income streams. ie.the sorts of businesses who are happy to try and expand through reinvesting using their own resources.

There are many, many businesses desperate for cash who they simply won't lend to as they don't meet their 'criteria'.

I have spoken to finance directors on the other side of the table in established businesses who have had terrible trouble negotiating and re-negotiating finance. Particularly rbs who do not seem able to make decisions any more.

Was it ever thus? They want to lend to people who have money and not to risk lending to those who don't. All the rest is bank propaganda and self preservation group think

Of course I agree they are selecting who and when to lend to. And whilst there are clearly businesses who are desparate for cash - there are lots who are not interested. Maybe it is just such a change from previous days when everyone borrowed as much as they could - so today is looks so much different ?

Anyway I have this informtion from the horses mouth. In a huge department in a bank that loans a HUGE amount of money to UK SME's. Make of that as you wish.

Businesses get 0% on deposit and then get screwed for 20%+ on overdraft.

It is not worth outborrowing your competition becuase the returns are not there unless you can borrow extreme amounts and just default asn walk away with.

I think there is some truth in that. And the constant chat from Government /Media abuot debt debt debt - is not exactly going to encourage you to take more on yourself....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are many, many businesses desperate for cash who they simply won't lend to as they don't meet their 'criteria'.

I'm surprised that there are "many, many businesses" out there that can see opportunities for expansion for which a loan would be required. They're obviously a lot more optimistic about the economy going forward than most HPCers on here.

Is it not more a case of increased overdraft facilities to prop up doomed concerns a little longer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway Lloyds said they would remove my overdraft if I didn't pay anything in.

I feel like mentioning the fact that they have been downgraded - let alone worrying about my situation I should be worried about who I hold my overdraft with :)

:lol::lol::lol:

Cracker!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yep...this happened in GC1.....small firms really needing help, and the bank pulls the overdraft....it starts off like your case, but NEXT they will take your cash payment and decrease your OD by the amount you just paid in....it was like you never got paid.

Welcome to bankers land.

This touches on some of the stuff we were talking about in the other thread. Your banking conditions can change pretty rapidly on the whim of the bank.

So you can have planned your business with a certain overdraft etc. The business is viable, employs people, good markets, products etc. Then all of a sudden the bank pulls the plug and you're under.

Meanwhile the government is feeding money to the banksters on the basis that they're supposed to smooth over the financial conditions for businesses, when instead they are gambling it on casino markets and paying their CEO's millions in bonuses. Makes me seriously angry.

Then the government wonders why the economic activity is ******ed and small businesses won't borrow to expand and employ people. Well they won't borrow because their conditions can change at any minute and anyone prudent isn't going to risk their business by expanding on that basis.

On another thing when the last cc happened I know a few people who were rung up and told that they could pay off their loan at a reduced return if they paid the outstanding capital. The changes of overdraft conditions may be an initial response to the fact that banks capital reserve ratios are being called into question (see Pestons blog) and the current liquidity crisis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised that there are "many, many businesses" out there that can see opportunities for expansion for which a loan would be required. They're obviously a lot more optimistic about the economy going forward than most HPCers on here.

Is it not more a case of increased overdraft facilities to prop up doomed concerns a little longer?

green shoots is what they see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised that there are "many, many businesses" out there that can see opportunities for expansion for which a loan would be required. They're obviously a lot more optimistic about the economy going forward than most HPCers on here.

Is it not more a case of increased overdraft facilities to prop up doomed concerns a little longer?

The many, many businesses that did during the booom were just ballooning their figures with extrat debt and extra business against other sound businesses - which temporarily made those businesses more compeittive (they were drawing down debt lines to subsidise their business model), in the process they took other functional businesses out.

This also happened on a larger scale and across sectors - industrial companies taken to the woodshed and the brownfield sites sold off for developent - all that fresh money effetively put industrial firms out of businesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this is my story with Lloyds.

Banked with them for 20 years, 15 years as a business. Never so much as missed a payment. Put up with endless reshuffles and bank manager changes.

We had a loan, couple of low value charge/credit cards, and an overdraft facility. We suffered quite a bit in the 2008 recession fall out due to our primary funder being taken out of business (a very large firm) but were recovering and paying things off on time.

I sold my house this year and was told I'd be fine to buy one if I wanted (if I found a bargain/distressed seller). The moment my house sold, however, the bank took hold of all of the money (since they had the mortgage) and paid off the loan, cancelled the OD facility (not in use that month fortunately), and took full collateral on the charge/credit cards. No warning at all, and completely contrary to what had been agreed.

To say the least, this was "not the best thing ever" for either me personally or the business (where it cost jobs as a result - OD's are useful due to client payment terms affecting cash flow). If they had actually told me this is what would happen in our discussions I'd have been annoyed but would have understood and could have made alternative arrangements.

And as for the EFG scheme - what a farce that was. Spent a fortune on accountant's fees only to be turned down because "there was no 100% guarantee that money could be paid back". No kidding! And the specific case had been discussed before we started on that journey. RBS (I think it was) did exactly the same to us and many other companies in my sector. They obviously just wanted the applications and I suspect would only agree to nailed on, short term sales contract collateral.

I'm still very angry about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this is my story with Lloyds.

Banked with them for 20 years, 15 years as a business. Never so much as missed a payment. Put up with endless reshuffles and bank manager changes.

We had a loan, couple of low value charge/credit cards, and an overdraft facility. We suffered quite a bit in the 2008 recession fall out due to our primary funder being taken out of business (a very large firm) but were recovering and paying things off on time.

I sold my house this year and was told I'd be fine to buy one if I wanted (if I found a bargain/distressed seller). The moment my house sold, however, the bank took hold of all of the money (since they had the mortgage) and paid off the loan, cancelled the OD facility (not in use that month fortunately), and took full collateral on the charge/credit cards. No warning at all, and completely contrary to what had been agreed.

To say the least, this was "not the best thing ever" for either me personally or the business (where it cost jobs as a result - OD's are useful due to client payment terms affecting cash flow). If they had actually told me this is what would happen in our discussions I'd have been annoyed but would have understood and could have made alternative arrangements.

And as for the EFG scheme - what a farce that was. Spent a fortune on accountant's fees only to be turned down because "there was no 100% guarantee that money could be paid back". No kidding! And the specific case had been discussed before we started on that journey. RBS (I think it was) did exactly the same to us and many other companies in my sector. They obviously just wanted the applications and I suspect would only agree to nailed on, short term sales contract collateral.

I'm still very angry about it.

That's terrible. Did you try writing to your MP ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised that there are "many, many businesses" out there that can see opportunities for expansion for which a loan would be required. They're obviously a lot more optimistic about the economy going forward than most HPCers on here.

Is it not more a case of increased overdraft facilities to prop up doomed concerns a little longer?

I think you may have nailed it. The chat I was told probably relates to new loans or the like. I can imagine there are loads of businesses out there desperate for their existing loans to continue or increase slightly - to stop them going over the edge.

Talkng of debt revulsion - I cannot remember the last person I know who told me they were getting a new loan or credit card. The only people talkng about debt are talking about paying it off. I am sure there are the others around - however they are certainly keepig quiet about it. Debt has become unfashionable and not something to be proud of. I think that in itself has huge consequences. Although the idea of a mortgage has also dropped in it's desirability - it has certainly not dropped as much compared to other forms of loans. In my experience anyway.

PS - Miggy what is the EFG scheme ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know someone who works for one of the large banks. It shall remain nameless for the purposes of this thread.

They recently did some 'back to the floor' or whatever nonsense with people who do the lending for small to medium business. General chat was the businesses they are dealing with just do not WANT to borrow money. They are actively trying but businesses are not interested. They don't want more debt and want to concentrate on paying off what they have. In general.

Debt revulsion stage arrived for business ? And if so - how long till we get there for individuals..

What goes round, comes round - I can remember lecturing on interpretation of Balance Sheets back in the 90's; when talking about gearing I used to say that UK businesses were fairly low-geared compared with, say, Germany where the banks had a longer-term investment in companies. UK companies had too much bitter experience of the banks pulling the rug from under their feet in the 1970s whenever policy changed overnight to want to be too dependent on bank lending!

Edited by cartimandua51

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's terrible. Did you try writing to your MP ?

Heh, well a friend of mine actually is a Tory MP so yes I did consider it. However, I was busy actually having to deal with the fall out.

I would genuinely have understood if they'd just told me beforehand as our filed accounts at the time were pretty poor from the recession fall out. However, since we were doing better and had never had a payment problem, and I'd have still secured the loan against money in a locked account or % of property, it seemed incredibly petty and poorly handled.

Now I'm having fun with HMRC. They are going over something with a fine tooth comb and considering using one of our contracts as a test case against SMEs in my industry, despite the government being publicly supportive of this tax issue having been lobbied by our trade organisation. I've no problem since we've done nothing wrong, but it's costing many days of my time. Worse, if our accountant wasn't working gratis - because he thinks they're being ridiculous and could then make a massive back claim against many more of his clients - it could have cost thousands in fees.

Even if they opt for the worst case scenario, after meetings, phone calls, and many months, they'll save £5-7000. It would have cost that or more just to handle their investigation which only even came about because we did something they had suggested (it caused us to get red flagged). To be fair, they being 'nice' about it, but I can't help but feel like it's a case of taking on an SME because it's easy, and it's taking vastly longer than it should.

I did tell my accountant that I felt like closing up and setting up abroad after both the above issues as they are just farcical given the economic situation. A government owned bank and HMRC should be supportive of long existing SMEs at times like these, not the opposite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh, well a friend of mine actually is a Tory MP so yes I did consider it. However, I was busy actually having to deal with the fall out.

I would genuinely have understood if they'd just told me beforehand as our filed accounts at the time were pretty poor from the recession fall out. However, since we were doing better and had never had a payment problem, and I'd have still secured the loan against money in a locked account or % of property, it seemed incredibly petty and poorly handled.

Now I'm having fun with HMRC. They are going over something with a fine tooth comb and considering using one of our contracts as a test case against SMEs in my industry, despite the government being publicly supportive of this tax issue having been lobbied by our trade organisation. I've no problem since we've done nothing wrong, but it's costing many days of my time. Worse, if our accountant wasn't working gratis - because he thinks they're being ridiculous and could then make a massive back claim against many more of his clients - it could have cost thousands in fees.

Even if they opt for the worst case scenario, after meetings, phone calls, and many months, they'll save £5-7000. It would have cost that or more just to handle their investigation which only even came about because we did something they had suggested (it caused us to get red flagged). To be fair, they being 'nice' about it, but I can't help but feel like it's a case of taking on an SME because it's easy, and it's taking vastly longer than it should.

I did tell my accountant that I felt like closing up and setting up abroad after both the above issues as they are just farcical given the economic situation. A government owned bank and HMRC should be supportive of long existing SMEs at times like these, not the opposite.

Now you've made me even angrier.

As someone said somewhere else, we don't do hugz here, but seriously, the best of luck. Hopefully the admin will be over soon and you can get back to doing business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should always save at one bank and borrow from another. All cheques get paid into your saving bank and then you decide how much will be going to reduce the o/d etc at the other bank. Banks are notorious for seeing a big lump of money and suddenly tearing up the old agreement and taking the money. It's what they do. Just don't give them the opportunity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.