otters Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The Greeks need the next tranche of their bailout, 8 billion euros I believe, some of which is needed to pay the wages of a bloated civil service. From what I understand it will be withheld unless they can show they are trying to reduce their expenditure. Well, why don't we do it for them, and just give them 6 billion, then they will have to cut back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The Greeks need the next tranche of their bailout, 8 billion euros I believe, some of which is needed to pay the wages of a bloated civil service. From what I understand it will be withheld unless they can show they are trying to reduce their expenditure. Well, why don't we do it for them, and just give them 6 billion, then they will have to cut back. Spoken like a true liberal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The Greeks need the next tranche of their bailout, 8 billion euros I believe, some of which is needed to pay the wages of a bloated civil service. From what I understand it will be withheld unless they can show they are trying to reduce their expenditure. Well, why don't we do it for them, and just give them 6 billion, then they will have to cut back. The bubbles are beyond salvage so that's just another 6 billion wasted, then you'll end up with just the same problem as if you'd given them 8 billion, just in 3/4 of the time. Default plus recapitalising the eurozone banks is the only option, everything else is just fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otters Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Spoken like a true liberal. I obviously don't do tongue in cheek very well, or your not a good interpreter of script. It's probalbly me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 What if they leverage it up using the 6billion as the equity portion? F***ed squared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 SNIP When will they learn? "I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otters Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 The bubbles are beyond salvage so that's just another 6 billion wasted, then you'll end up with just the same problem as if you'd given them 8 billion, just in 3/4 of the time. Default plus recapitalising the eurozone banks is the only option, everything else is just fantasy. A common currency without a common fiscal policy was never going to work. All we seem to be getting from the ECB are threats which come to nothing, and I think it would be a poor wager for anybody to bet on them not getting a further 8 billion to waste. If their debts are written off, and they remain in the euro they will have to cut their cloth according to their means, I cannot see them doing that, and I cannot see them being allowed to start to run up such a deficit again. With the rest of the eurozone only a few steps away from a Greek type crisis who is going to dictate fiscal policy to them? There is only one country I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 "I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates Well it looks like Socrates knows more than I do, whoever he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 If the Greeks run out of money the first thing the will not do is they will not pay the interest on their national debt. Thinking they will not pay the wages as the first rather than last resort is crazy talk. Their annual debt interest payments are €12bn - only when they need to save the 13th billion will they stop paying people. Remember, it's French banks we are bailing out here, not the Greek nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) When will they learn? If I were Greek I'd be campaigning for default and dumping the Euro. The tourists would be back in no time at 1 Euro = 700 Drachma. If they don't protest then their ruling class will just squeeze them and milk the country even more. I think they're right in a way, except that smashing things up is wasteful. Edited October 4, 2011 by swissy_fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inflating Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 "I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates I often feel like that. Trouble is, lately I'm seeing that all the things I thought I was wrong about I've actually been right about. In most cases, I wanted to be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The Greeks can do what they like. The Germans have to bail them out to save the Euro and the EU. End of. (simple Game Theory). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlinkTooFast Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The Greeks can do what they like. The Germans have to bail them out to save the Euro and the EU. End of. (simple Game Theory). Unless the Germans throw their arms in the air in a flamboyant French/Greek style and go back to the Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Simple solutions are what we need.. And of course our vast bureaucracies and consultancies and so on never want, as then we dont' need so many of them. My solution for Greece is quite simple. The Minister of Finance simply writes a letter to the creditors of Greece saying that alas Greece will not be paying back the principal or the interest on the national bonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Unless the Germans throw their arms in the air in a flamboyant French/Greek style and go back to the Mark Germans can do that if they want but it makes no difference. The Greeks hold all the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Simple solutions are what we need.. And of course our vast bureaucracies and consultancies and so on never want, as then we dont' need so many of them. My solution for Greece is quite simple. The Minister of Finance simply writes a letter to the creditors of Greece saying that alas Greece will not be paying back the principal or the interest on the national bonds, but the Germans and French (and others) will be, on our behalf, so please contact them for further information. Corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 It doesnt matter what token of exchange (Euro or Drachma) they choose to use, the bottom line is they need to get back to being productive as a society. Until such times, they are just running up a bigger debt against time and disadvantaging themselves each and every day this goes on. They need a strong leader to take them down the right path and some innovation. An example I read was rumours the Greek government just approved 3 gold mines, which if they do go ahead will make Greece the largest gold producer in Europe. All 3 mines were outlawed before because of alleged environmental concerns. Another example is Greece has signed a huge deal with China to upgrade its ports, build more rail capacity, and have a series of warehouses within Greece.. as the Chinese want to use Greece as a route into Eastern Europe, and as a trans-shipment point. All those are real jobs, real tax revenues for the government, real money in the society. Again building railroads is hardwork.. and each community is surely against more rail being built through their community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think a better one is to force them to speak German until they have paid back their debts and to allow the Germans to "re-structure their industry" i.e. use them as slave labour. It would do us the world of good too. One of the best things that ever happened to Austria was when Germany rolled in. And stopped dead the financial specualtion that had wrecked their economy. Then set about on a series of mines, railroads, highways, factories, mills, etc.. Overnight they went from poor and unemployed to everyone working and building real things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 "I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates Decent attacking midfielder though to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Smokes too many fags though. Ended his days at Garforth Town. Didn't know that. He doesn't sound too well either. Sócrates is a doctor of medicine, a rare achievement for a professional footballer (he is a graduate of the Faculdade de Medicina de Ribeirão Preto).[citation needed] Even rarer is the fact that he earned the degree while concurrently playing professional football.He is also noted for being an intellectual, a heavy drinker and smoker,[8] and for his height (193 cm, 6 ft 4 in). His brother Raà was a member of the Brazilian national team that won the World Cup in 1994and played for São Paulo and for Paris St. Germain. Sócrates was admitted to intensive care in the Albert Einstein Hospital in Sao Paulo on 19th August 2011 with gastrointestinal bleeding.[9] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 An example I read was rumours the Greek government just approved 3 gold mines, which if they do go ahead will make Greece the largest gold producer in Europe. All 3 mines were outlawed before because of alleged environmental concerns. Another example is Greece has signed a huge deal with China to upgrade its ports, build more rail capacity, and have a series of warehouses within Greece.. as the Chinese want to use Greece as a route into Eastern Europe, and as a trans-shipment point. All those are real jobs, real tax revenues for the government, real money in the society. Again building railroads is hardwork.. and each community is surely against more rail being built through their community. This was on here the other day. The difference now is there's blood on the streets, the price will be depressed and the gold price is higher than 5 years ago. There's a Rothschild involved too, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) The Germans need to give the greeks a nice soft cushion. Edited October 4, 2011 by Milton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 One of the best things that ever happened to Austria was when Germany rolled in. And stopped dead the financial specualtion that had wrecked their economy. Then set about on a series of mines, railroads, highways, factories, mills, etc.. Overnight they went from poor and unemployed to everyone working and building real things. One of the best things that ever happened to France was when Germany rolled in. They made them work hard and stole their production and the French really hated it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Simple solutions are what we need.. And of course our vast bureaucracies and consultancies and so on never want, as then we dont' need so many of them. My solution for Greece is quite simple. The Minister of Finance simply writes a letter to the creditors of Greece saying that alas Greece will not be paying back the principal or the interest on the national bonds. ...but would that get Greece out of trouble, they will still require more borrowed money to pay public wages and benefits....who will lend it to them when the creditors themselves will be in greater trouble than they are already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otters Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 ...but would that get Greece out of trouble, they will still require more borrowed money to pay public wages and benefits....who will lend it to them when the creditors themselves will be in greater trouble than they are already. As I hinted in a post earlier, one of the EU member countries is going to have to show them how to live only slightly beyond their means. Narrows it down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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