Wahoo Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Dexia shares in new slump as Greece worries continues Dexia SA Shares in the Franco-Belgian bank Dexia have fallen for the second day running as fears over its exposure to Greece debt continue. They fell 37% at the open of Tuesday trading after losing 10% on Monday following an alert from the Moody's ratings agency. Dexia is holding an emergency board meeting amid serious concerns. The governments of France and Belgium, which are joint shareholders in Dexia, moved to guarantee its debts. Trashed I'm starting to think that this recovery might not be locked in after all ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Dexia shares in new slump as Greece worries continues Dexia SA Shares in the Franco-Belgian bank Dexia have fallen for the second day running as fears over its exposure to Greece debt continue. They fell 37% at the open of Tuesday trading after losing 10% on Monday following an alert from the Moody's ratings agency. Dexia is holding an emergency board meeting amid serious concerns. The governments of France and Belgium, which are joint shareholders in Dexia, moved to guarantee its debts. Trashed I'm starting to think that this recovery might not be locked in after all ! Any news on how much debt Belgium is guaranteeing and how much France is guaranteeing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live Peasant Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Any news on how much debt Belgium is guaranteeing and how much France is guaranteeing? I'd be surprised if Belgium was in a position to guarantee anything right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorJ Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 they will get a bailout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) French and Belgian proles more than happy to guarantee bad banks debts. Not that anyone asked them http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/04/dexia-idUSL5E7L40WD20111004 Edited October 4, 2011 by Red Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Could be a good place to keep Euros if they put government guarantees in place, just like Northern Rock was here. I transferred most of my GBP into NR at 6.9% fixed for one year, all of it guaranteed by HMG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 What they need to do is issue another denial, that always reassures the market. Still if they'd been bailed out properly a few years ago all of this could have been avoided. Another zombie to add to the list. Good to see the taxpayers picking up the tab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copydude Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 From Peston: . . . it was only on July 15 that the European Banking Authority . . . . portrayed Dexia as one of the strongest banks in Europe, because it meant Dexia was deemed by regulators to have more than twice the amount of capital it needs to absorb losses. Which is perceived today by investors as something of a joke, in that the cost of insuring Dexia's subordinate debt implies that providers of this subordinated debt are facing losses of 35%. The important point about Dexia is that its current difficulties tend to undermine confidence in the famous European stress tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Dexia shares in new slump as Greece worries continues Dexia SA Shares in the Franco-Belgian bank Dexia have fallen for the second day running as fears over its exposure to Greece debt continue. They fell 37% at the open of Tuesday trading after losing 10% on Monday following an alert from the Moody's ratings agency. Dexia is holding an emergency board meeting amid serious concerns. The governments of France and Belgium, which are joint shareholders in Dexia, moved to guarantee its debts. Trashed I'm starting to think that this recovery might not be locked in after all ! Belgium still doesn't have a Government. So who makes the decisions re Dexia ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8805895/Whos-next-as-Dexia-takes-first-step-towards-rescue.html With bond markets shut since May, interbank funding in seizure, and money market investors withdrawing all but the most short-term financing it has been only a matter of time before a major bank would hit the wall. Like 2008 and the inexorable fall of banking dominoes, the question now is who is next? Societe Generale’s deputy chief executive and chief financial officer speaking at a banking conference this morning have repeated their insistence the French lender remains “fundamentally robust”. Maybe it is, but in these markets few investors are prepared to give management teams the benefit of the doubt. Lehman Brothers, Royal Bank of Scotland, Landsbanki – all gave impassioned protestations they were fine, until they were not. More than a few analysts are reaching the conclusion that a new round of government rescues and restructurings are on the cards. SocGen’s own analysts yesterday recommended that clients buy protection against the debt of Barclays, warning the bank may not be able to generate sufficient internal capital to meet the incoming Basel III capital requirements. It seems likely that RBS and Lloyds Banking Group could require some additional form of state support within the next six months. This will most likely lead to a new round of so-called “bank bashing” – this will be unfair. RBS and Lloyds have been doing all the right things to reduce risk, there problem is this latest leg of the crisis has come upon them too quickly. Another year or two of asset reductions and they could probably have weathered the storm alone, as it is RBS could well face full nationalisation within the next six to 12 months and Lloyds some new form of liquidity support. However, compared to what faces their Continental peers this will seem mild. Since 2008 many of Europe’s major banks have chosen to ignore the warning signals from the markets and have continued with business as normal, pretending the crisis was an “Anglo-Saxon” phenomenon and nothing to do with them. Big mistake. An orderly shrinking of their balance sheets over the last three years, as undertaken by British and US banks, would have seen them take losses and probably raise significant amounts of new capital, but it would have taken place in relatively favourable markets. The awful challenge they now face will be doing the right things at completely the wrong time. A paradox of deleveraging will soon be upon them – what is good for one bank, is catastrophic when all are trying to do it at the same time. Quite how bad things could get is hard to say. With so many crises now converging – sovereign debt, rapidly slowing growth, new banking losses – the banking problems will be just one of many and will not dominate the headlines in the way they did between 2007 and 2009, this should not hide the fact they are just as severe. Welcome to the banking crisis of 2011. so SocGen saying they are fine its everyone else. Viva La france Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_w_ Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The French just don't want / can't bailout their banks. This is not good. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8782663/Debt-crisis-live.html 10.30 From Bruno Waterfield in Brussels: the Chancellor has been pressing EU finance minsters to look at their banks as the debt crisis escalates. Dexia (see 9.30 and 10.00 posts) could be "the canary in the coalmine", one diplomat said. Bruno reports that the French holdings in Dexia are said to be the stressed part, and Paris is reluctant to be left holding the bad debt in order to protect its AAA rating, amid its much wider banking exposure to Greek debt. The Belgians, he says, are more happy to break Dexia up and create a bad bank (with a greater cost to France) with the viable Brussels end of the business available for a sell off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_w_ Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Belgium still doesn't have a Government. So who makes the decisions re Dexia ? The King! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 From Peston: The important point about Dexia is that its current difficulties tend to undermine confidence in the famous European stress tests. No sh1t. I don't know how anyone could ever take these stress tests seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 No sh1t. I don't know how anyone could ever take these stress tests seriously I don't think anyone did. Our whole world now runs on a version of the Emperor's new clothes- so long as nobody admits the banks are denuded of capital the game goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 From Peston: meanwhile back on HPC we knew Dexia was a dead man walking for a long time http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=168090&view=findpost&p=3091840 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 No sh1t. I don't know how anyone could ever take these stress tests seriously http://www.bnb.be/pub/01_00_00_00_00/01_06_00_00_00/01_06_01_00_00/20110715_stresstest.htm?l=de The EU-wide stress test requires that the results and weaknesses identified, which will be disclosed to the market, are acted on to improve the resilience of the financial system. Following completion of the EU-wide stress test, the results determine that KBC Bank and Dexia meet the capital benchmark set out for the purpose of the stress test. Both banks will continue to ensure that appropriate capital levels are maintained. How could you not believe this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 As was said on an FT video, its main custom was lending to French municipalities. The French government would be bailing itself. That's just too hilarious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtickle Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 That's just too hilarious... Did anyone else hear the PM interview today with Eddie Mair and Robert Peston? He managed to get a "Dexy's Midnight Runners" pun in! http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b015jhw8/?t=22m50s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Dexia passed the EU bank stress tests in July of this year with flying colours. So much for the stress tests. The results for Dexia can be found here... www.nbb.be/doc/cp/eng/eu_framework/2011_stresstest_dexia.xls Amongst other things this spreadsheet has the sovereign debt exposures for Dexia - if contagion sets in for the PIIGS, Dexia is toast... Dexia actually had Tier 1 capital (via the test methodology) of 10.4% - one of the better results from the stress tests. Which makes you wonder what will happen to the banks with lower tier 1 ratios in the event of a Greek default. The fact Dexia has gone under on the same day Italy has been downgraded (again) is no coincidence...... Edit fix url Edited October 4, 2011 by geezer466 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob monkhouse Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I bought Lloyds shares at 33p. Silly Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't think anyone did. Our whole world now runs on a version of the Emperor's new clothes- so long as nobody admits the banks are denuded of capital the game goes on. And who emptied the banks? Politicians And politicians are now desperate to save the banks, because if the banks fail then the European political project fails And a generation of politicians are going to be exposed as liars and thieves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/dexia-bailout-verge-collapse-threatens-take-france-aaa-rating-down-it Having followed the fortunes of the beleaguered Belgian bank from before it appeared on anyone's worksheets, we are hardly surprised that the EU Commission charged with confirming the good-bank / bad-bank restructuring is concerned at the deal that Belgium has with the French (and Luxembourg) government to backstop/finance Dexia's debt. Belgium's De Standaard (and two other European newspapers) today suggests the Belgians fear the EUR90bn deal is 'not feasible' as it stands (with a Belgium 60.5%, France 36.5%, and Luxembourg 3% weighting). Given the change in market conditions the commission, according to the article, is concerned at the ability of each country to finance its respective guarantee (most obviously Belgium) and therefore can renegotiate the October bailout deal. Belgian FinMin Reynders would not confirm the renegotiations but was evidently waiting on the commission's 'comments or additions'. The French are obviously not-amused and of course, any increase in the size of France's guarantee will further impact its ability to maintain the much-vaunted AAA rating. Bailout may be illegal And it just keeps on getting more and more surreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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