Its Over

['Bart']

For all those planning for supplies and 'protecting themselves' and all there is an important thing to remember. If it all goes teets up your friends, family work collegues etc.. will not be in such great positions. And there will be only so much you can do to help them out.

One of the main plot threads of the novel (and TV series) Noah's Castle.

It's the hardest winter the Mortimers have ever faced. The currency has crashed, food is scarce and prices soaring. Ahead, just round the corner, are starvation and street riots. Nessie, Barry, Geoff and little Ellen are among the lucky ones, or so it seems. Their father Norman has found a wonderful, if crazy, way of making sure that whatever happens to anyone else his own family will be all right. But Norman Mortimer hasn't foreseen the consequences of his plan. Maybe he can turn his home into a fortress, but can he defend it from the outside world? And will his children support him? This story is set in an England of a fictional time. The events it describes have not actually happened there, and with luck they never will. But there are countries in today's world where extreme hardship and even starvation are chillingly close at hand. The hard moral questions posed by Noah's Castle face us all and will not go away.

It was written in 1975, not long after all the economic turbulence of the early part of that decade. The TV series was made just after the Winter of Discontent, but not shown until 1980.

Given everything that was going on in the early 70s, blackouts, 3 day week, the oil shock, inflation touching 25% at times, the scenario in the book probably didn't seem that far fetched.

You can pick up a 2nd hand copy of the book dirt cheap on Amazon.

In this more modern age, it's easy to imagine Norman Mortimer as a member of HPC.

[Milton]

If you are in a group of people and a bear comes along, you don't need to run faster than the bear, just faster than the slowest runners.

Thats a good analogy, but if you have ever been in that scenario, you would know that the first thing, the slowest runners do. Those with the shortest legs, is try to trip up the person in front of them.

[On a side note apparently we are pre-programmed to ingratiate ourselves toward taller bigger people, as they were the some of the most successful fighters....]

Edited October 4, 2011 by Milton

[General Melchett]

Ah yes, the Moral Compass. Like Gordon Brown's, eh?

Or Blair or Bin Laden or...

History has taught us that there are few things as dangerous as someone who has one of them strong moral compass thingies (which is usually based on having an imaginary friend). It's a thin line from that to total conviction that you are always in the right and so can do no wrong.

Edited October 4, 2011 by General Melchett

[right_freds_dead]

One of the main plot threads of the novel (and TV series) Noah's Castle.

It's the hardest winter the Mortimers have ever faced. The currency has crashed, food is scarce and prices soaring. Ahead, just round the corner, are starvation and street riots. Nessie, Barry, Geoff and little Ellen are among the lucky ones, or so it seems. Their father Norman has found a wonderful, if crazy, way of making sure that whatever happens to anyone else his own family will be all right. But Norman Mortimer hasn't foreseen the consequences of his plan. Maybe he can turn his home into a fortress, but can he defend it from the outside world? And will his children support him? This story is set in an England of a fictional time. The events it describes have not actually happened there, and with luck they never will. But there are countries in today's world where extreme hardship and even starvation are chillingly close at hand. The hard moral questions posed by Noah's Castle face us all and will not go away.

It was written in 1975, not long after all the economic turbulence of the early part of that decade. The TV series was made just after the Winter of Discontent, but not shown until 1980.

Given everything that was going on in the early 70s, blackouts, 3 day week, the oil shock, inflation touching 25% at times, the scenario in the book probably didn't seem that far fetched.

You can pick up a 2nd hand copy of the book dirt cheap on Amazon.

In this more modern age, it's easy to imagine Norman Mortimer as a member of HPC.

even if you could protect your immediate family. for how long ?

and could you watch your neighbors die of starvation. i couldnt.

i only have 1 self loading rimfire and thats for personal protection.

although i have little here to steal thats not already been taken.

my future was my best asset. its gone.

[right_freds_dead]

It didn't just immediately go to excessive materialism. The Fifties and Sixties were still pretty tough - wages were low -there was very little family planning- and there were no fancy electrical items and cars to tempt you. I would describe those years as Utilitarian. Money was tight and even into the Seventies you had to plead with the Bank manager to get a loan.

It was credit expansion that ruined this country.

id agree about the credit expansion. but its more than that. its society. whats hitting hard is the unwillingness to change the perceived gains. they value a blade of grass in a non descript field higher than that of a new familys housing needs and clap dead soldiers who they would treat with bitter contempt should they try to live in thatched nimby land. its insulting to the bravest men in our country, yet no one is willing to put the two together. they only welcome dead heroes from a war no one understands.

the current divisions are also driving us over a cliff.

with the defaults certainly coming, the entire cliff will fall.

there is no need to stand on the edge anymore.

[right_freds_dead]

im going to go cheer myself up tonight by supergluing the coin slot of a once free car park to a local nature reserve.

[Milton]

im going to go cheer myself up tonight by supergluing the coin slot of a once free car park to a local nature reserve.

Far better to superglue a pound coin on the street outside your window, and amuse yourself watching people trying to pick it up.....I knew someone who did this, and one guy came back with a chisel....

[Bloo Loo]

Of course, instaead of saving a few bankers, we could let some fail.

Yes, a lot of pain, but hey, plenty of banks are NOT exposed to these issues...they may not be British or American, but a bank is a bank is a bank.

[Bloo Loo]

id agree about the credit expansion. but its more than that. its society. whats hitting hard is the unwillingness to change the perceived gains. they value a blade of grass in a non descript field higher than that of a new familys housing needs and clap dead soldiers who they would treat with bitter contempt should they try to live in thatched nimby land. its insulting to the bravest men in our country, yet no one is willing to put the two together. they only welcome dead heroes from a war no one understands.

the current divisions are also driving us over a cliff.

with the defaults certainly coming, the entire cliff will fall.

there is no need to stand on the edge anymore.

well said.

People cringe when they think they MAY be blown up in a plane, and feel that WE shoud spend billions preventing this most unlikelyl event, while at the same time applauding our soldiers killing people, defending their states, rebel cause or whatever, on their behalf.

as you say, many dont even think of a connection.

[Austin Allegro]

On the plus side, infant mortality has fallen from 30 to 7 per 1000, life expectancy has risen from 70 to 80 and no-one's had to fight in a war they didn't want to. And I'm not sure losing God counts as a negative.

And we certainly didn't lose God in the last sixty years. The secularisation of the west has been going on since the industrial revolution, if not the Reformation.

[right_freds_dead]

im going to attempt to stop posting. ill leave you with this gem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrC7KRDy3w8

[winkie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rtz8jY0e0I&feature=fvwrel

[Austin Allegro]

If you are in a group of people and a bear comes along, you don't need to run faster than the bear, just faster than the slowest runners. Just by knowing more than the mainstream media propaganda, you are miles ahead of everyone else.

I think it's fine to be optimistic, but not naively optimistic. Like the striking teacher on the radio; "I'm not worried, I will get a pension because it's my human right to get a pension and the government can't do nuffink". These sorts of people are going to lose EVERYTHING, they are sheep to the slaughter.

That was on the Alvin Hall programme wasn't it? I heard it too. I wondered whether the Beeb included her quote because they agreed with it, or because they wanted to show how unprepared some people are...I wondered also how anyone, let alone a teacher, could be so absolutely pig-ignorant as that woman. She simply did not grasp the most basic concept of state welfare provision.

[Austin Allegro]

typical BBC. Didn't let it be shown whilst Labour was in power. Waited until Maggie was in.

Noah's Castle is quite a good read but it ends up with standard lefty thinking, ie that you shouldn't try to solve social problems with individualism...

[winkie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xorNjvg1B48&feature=related

['Bart']

typical BBC. Didn't let it be shown whilst Labour was in power. Waited until Maggie was in.

It was made by a long defunct ITV franchise, Southern TV

who came up with some right clunkers in their time, but also made classics like Worzel Gummidge, How and Runaround.

Their series Out of Town was the basis for The Fast Show's "Country Matters", starring the ever coughing Bob Fleming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVGxpjXUuWo

[MinceBalls]

Surely we should look on the bright side?

For some of us, even if it is going to mean a reduction in the perceived standard of living (material goods based on debt), it is going to mean the birth of a new way of doing things, a re-assessment of what makes us happy and possibly a new way of running business, the country, banking and the like.

Rather than get all depressed maybe we are on the cusp of a re-set which might result in things being better?

The OP's posts read much like 'the end of the world is nigh' but maybe, just maybe, it is the start of something for the good?

I dunno, perhaps I am being overly optimistic but this might just be a time for us to re-shape our future.

Chin up

[Traktion]

Surely we should look on the bright side?

For some of us, even if it is going to mean a reduction in the perceived standard of living (material goods based on debt), it is going to mean the birth of a new way of doing things, a re-assessment of what makes us happy and possibly a new way of running business, the country, banking and the like.

Rather than get all depressed maybe we are on the cusp of a re-set which might result in things being better?

The OP's posts read much like 'the end of the world is nigh' but maybe, just maybe, it is the start of something for the good?

I dunno, perhaps I am being overly optimistic but this might just be a time for us to re-shape our future.

Chin up

Once you realise you need no government at all, there is nothing they can throw at you which will dent your optimism.

The problem is, there are millions of people who rely on the state both in the present and the future. When it fails, their plans for life will also collapse; the closer you are to the point of failure, the worse it is going to be for you. For everyone else, there is cause for optimism... the tumour will have been removed.

This is why my plan has been to avoid a reliance on banks and their services, as well as government backed jobs and pensions etc. Both are based on promises which will not be kept. Instead, I choose to look out for my own future, as best I can. Clearly, it's hard to avoid the banks completely and I can't avoid taxation (government theft), but I can keep my exposure to a minimum.

[jaspers]

Here's something for you Fred. Footage is of the South of France. Song by Jay Jay Pistolet.

[Snugglybear]

God puts on a show every night regardless...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAkMRwgp06s

Sunsets aren't God putting on a show, they're the ball of chemistry we live on turning in orbit around another ball of chemistry, viewed through a third bunch of chemistry.

Quite a lot of us find them pretty, mind.

[winkie]

[Mr C]

I think your worry is justified Fred. Society has always evolved and will always evolve, to the point where we become truly civilised. The oncoming pain is another growing pain on our way to sustainability, civility and peace.

Right now we have offices the length and breadth the country stuffed to the gunwales full of people sitting staring blankly at screens all day long, we have people sitting at home on handouts. Who knows, a change from dull office life or sitting transfixed at the TV to out working in the fields might be a revelation... A good hard kick up the **** we really need, bring forth the revolution..

[sarahleyburn]

[Deckard]

Wot, eight pages of DOOM, and not a single list of things to hoard before armageddon strikes?

This forum is going down the drain, I tell ya

[wisdomprostar]

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