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Ftse Breaks 5000


buytoilet
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The BBC news has for a long time resembled a children's Newsround. I tend to prefer RT.

Last time I watched a report on RT they were investigating the number of journalists that had been imprisoned in corrupt and immoral Georgia next door for criticising the government. The implication was that such a situation would never happen in back in modern tolerant Russia. There, they just have the journalists assassinated.

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Last time I watched a report on RT they were investigating the number of journalists that had been imprisoned in corrupt and immoral Georgia next door for criticising the government. The implication was that such a situation would never happen in back in modern tolerant Russia. There, they just have the journalists assassinated.

Yep, you have to sit through their propaganda and be made aware that the US and UK are the great Satan. But worth it to get the Greek Default as the number one item on the news and not the Michael Jackson trial.

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More worried about the S&P500 as far as the ftse is concerned personally. And that is down again today. I dont really understand why though, its not like this news out of greece is even relevant. Greece is gone basically so who cares about their deficit targets. A greece default is already priced in.

You've missed the point about the strongly negative effect of a likely Greek default ... it's not about the general write-off losses that the creditors face, it's specifically about the losses that certain BANKS face. Many banks in other European countries (including the UK) have large amounts of Greek state debt. A default could well tip those banks over the edge and precipitate yet another banking crisis.

Just as well those self same bankers have been busy pocketing huge bonuses over the few couple of years since their greed and stupidity last threatened to implode the Western financial system, so they'll be OK.

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Any talk of a Greek default being already priced into the markets is nonsense.

If Greece defaults then it will cause panic in the global financial system. Shares will plunge around the world IMPO and many banks will go under, others will need to be saved by State bail-outs.

This is why, IMPO, playing the markets at the moment is a gamble. Yes, if you get the up and down days right for your buying you can make good money. But when Greece goes it will be sudden and swift and people will be wiped out IMPO.

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Any talk of a Greek default being already priced into the markets is nonsense.

If Greece defaults then it will cause panic in the global financial system. Shares will plunge around the world IMPO and many banks will go under, others will need to be saved by State bail-outs.

This is why, IMPO, playing the markets at the moment is a gamble. Yes, if you get the up and down days right for your buying you can make good money. But when Greece goes it will be sudden and swift and people will be wiped out IMPO.

A partial default is a given, but it depends to what extent Greece co-operate with restructuring the debt. The omens don't look good, when they haven't even been able to meet their deficit reduction programme in the short term.

I suppose there is the added wild card of the MERVmar Republic. To what extent is he prepared to follow post ww1 German tactics. Launching Quantitative Looting 2 on Thursday may persuade some that the Market is the only protection.

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A partial default is a given, but it depends to what extent Greece co-operate with restructuring the debt. The omens don't look good, when they haven't even been able to meet their deficit reduction programme in the short term.

I suppose there is the added wild card of the MERVmar Republic. To what extent is he prepared to follow post ww1 German tactics. Launching Quantitative Looting 2 on Thursday may persuade some that the Market is the only protection.

then there is Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy.....WHATEVER they are doing, it MUST have a negative effect on the rush to grow with a debt supported economy.

For me, the best way to pay this lot off is for default to hit the oh so clever financiers where it hurts them...they made the calls, they made the bonuses, they avoided the taxes....WE should nt be helping them with THEIR obligations to US...we may as well pay ourselves in the first place.

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Any talk of a Greek default being already priced into the markets is nonsense.

If Greece defaults then it will cause panic in the global financial system. Shares will plunge around the world IMPO and many banks will go under, others will need to be saved by State bail-outs.

This is why, IMPO, playing the markets at the moment is a gamble. Yes, if you get the up and down days right for your buying you can make good money. But when Greece goes it will be sudden and swift and people will be wiped out IMPO.

Not really because the current plan is for the private secotr to take a 21% haircut. i.e. a greek selective default.

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You've missed the point about the strongly negative effect of a likely Greek default ... it's not about the general write-off losses that the creditors face, it's specifically about the losses that certain BANKS face. Many banks in other European countries (including the UK) have large amounts of Greek state debt. A default could well tip those banks over the edge and precipitate yet another banking crisis.

Just as well those self same bankers have been busy pocketing huge bonuses over the few couple of years since their greed and stupidity last threatened to implode the Western financial system, so they'll be OK.

Believe me, I certainly havent missed the point of what a greek default could cause. Greece is small time. The losses european banks face from a greek default are easily manageable.

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Not really because the current plan is for the private secotr to take a 21% haircut. i.e. a greek selective default.

There was a City analyst on the Beeb last week pointing out that whilst politicians are talking about haircuts on the bonds no politician is actually talking to the bond holders about it.

It is all a mess.

I think a big problem is that the likes of Merkel and Co in the EU are basically public sector workers who just muddle through because there are always vast sums of public money available to allow them to do so... but they have not yet worked out that there is no money left and they are the ones who have to make a decision.

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There was a City analyst on the Beeb last week pointing out that whilst politicians are talking about haircuts on the bonds no politician is actually talking to the bond holders about it.

It is all a mess.

I think a big problem is that the likes of Merkel and Co in the EU are basically public sector workers who just muddle through because there are always vast sums of public money available to allow them to do so... but they have not yet worked out that there is no money left and they are the ones who have to make a decision.

But they did agree the 21% with the banks in July.

I agree with you that if greece defaults in a disorderly way then it could cause problems. But an orderly default is no big deal. Its economy is tiny.

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Any talk of a Greek default being already priced into the markets is nonsense.

If Greece defaults then it will cause panic in the global financial system. Shares will plunge around the world IMPO and many banks will go under, others will need to be saved by State bail-outs.

This is why, IMPO, playing the markets at the moment is a gamble. Yes, if you get the up and down days right for your buying you can make good money. But when Greece goes it will be sudden and swift and people will be wiped out IMPO.

And ya I do feel incredibly stupid buying in at this point. But I always think when I feel terribly uneasy about buying then I should buy. I know it doesnt make sense and its really difficult to make myself do, but I think there is some twisted logic in there somewhere. Or manybe I am just a lunatic :lol:

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I am doubting myself now. :lol:

I thought they did. But I know they want to make this 21% higher and maybe thats what the trader was talking about on the beeb.

Wasn't it voluntary? And is it clear who volunteered and who didn't?

You are correct that, whatever it was, it isn't now:

Jean-Claude Juncker, chairman of the 17-nation Eurogroup, said ministers were reassessing the extent of private sector involvement in a planned 109 billion euro second rescue package for Greece which may now prove insufficient after Athens admitted it would miss key deficit targets.

Under the July deal, private creditors agreed to take a 21 percent write-down on their Greek holdings via a plan to lighten and stretch the debt burden, with euro zone governments funding credit enhancements to attract voluntary participation.

Now that Greece’s economic growth and deficit situation has worsened, that deal needed to be reviewed, Juncker said.

“As far as the PSI (private sector involvement) is concerned, we have to take into account the fact that we have experienced changes since the decisions we took on the July 21, so we are considering technical revisions, so yes,” Juncker told reporters. He would not elaborate

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