The Problem With Emigration

[campervanman]

The problem with emigration is that you needed to do it a few years ago before the pound collapsed. Either that or have no money so the exchange rate makes no difference.

Since I moved to France 5 years ago the pound has gone down 30% vs the Euro. Back then living here compared to the UK was dirt cheap, now it's just cheap.

[Paddles]

My observation is that people who move abroad because they're miserable in the UK tend to be just as miserable wherever they end up. The perceived reasons for that misery may be different of course (e.g. replace high housing costs with distance from family). People that move for a specific opportunity or, indeed, by random chance, seem to do much better. I'm on my fourth stint out of the UK now (1 was for a woman, the other 3 were for work) and I've enjoyed all of them. This time I'm thinking of staying for good and, whilst I'll admit there's some stuff about the UK I'm very glad to see the back of, I certainly didn't leave because I thought it was a crap place to live in the general sense.

A very good point and one that seems to pass a lot of immigrants by as they search for the greener grass. There's phenomenon in Australia called "boomerang Poms" where almost of third of recent immigrants from the UK end up pulling the pin and heading home within less than 2 years. I know of an ex-colleague who returned within a year of landing here because the family "couldn't settle", which begs the questions "did you give it long enough and were your expectations realistic?".

I'm on my 2nd ex-pat experience and it's going great, just the the last and as just like my life back in London. The weather is better, the work colleagues are thicker but the money is as good and the prawns are bigger. Downside is I can't take a 10 quid cab ride to the Eurostar terminal from my house for a city break in Europe any more.

My view is that emigration is all about options; between the missus and I we have citizenship to 4 different countries across 3 continents.

Remember the old jibe at ex-pats in Honkers? FILTH; failed in London, trying Hong Kong.

The Australian equivalent is ADULTS; arrived down under, London too scary.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Paddles

[Vagabond]

But as a renter,there is much better value to be found abroad. And you are not ripped off at every turn. Renting in the uk now is at it's worst, amateur ignorant and arrogant 'rent it out instead' landlords are joining the fray, rents are high, utility bills are high and rising, we have council tax etc etc. You will save a lot and live in better surroundings by going abroad.

This depends 100% on where you go and the reasons for going. I've spent the last 6 years outside the UK in Europe, Africa and Asia working. When in Europe (South Italy), the cost of living was cheap and the quality of life was miles above anything I've found before or since. In both Africa and Asia I've had to pay money to rent that would make London look cheap, with none of the infrastructure or facilities people would take for granted in a developed nation.

I agree that leaving the UK for a bit can be a fantastic experience, just be aware of why you're leaving and where you going. As others have said, if you leave the UK because of personal problems, you'll probably find they travel with you wherever you go. If you're leaving because of problems with the UK, then do it, if only because living elsewhere can give you real perspective.

[wjk]

Many times on this forum people talk about how crap our country is at the moment and the fact they are thinking about or intending to emigrate in the near future.

Personally I don't understand the logic in this. When things get tough economically there is usually a rise in anti-foreigner rhetoric and general hostility towards immigrants. Seeing as this is a global economic crisis why would anybody feel safe becoming an immigrant in another country at this present time, with the potential of the locals being very hostile at your arrival?

Could anybody thinking of emigrating explain to me why they think they'd be better off in a foreign land at this moment in time?

You want to come to a place like Canada where huge swaths of the population are immigrants.

And it really is better in Canada than the UKI.

[abroad]

Lived in Continental Europe since 1999, originally from West Cost of Scotland. Moved for work reasons and wanted to learn another language and took the chance when I got it. Initially hard financially as we gave up 1 salary and that was 50% income drop. However we had a good amount of savings plus we made a little when we sold our house.

Living abroad requires a broad mind and above all a flexible attitude. Seen loads of ex-pats coming and going and many don't make it as they get stressed by the differences and are always looking to return to what they had. I actively avoid the ex-pat thing as its just crazy. I didn't do Guy Fawkes night in Germany (ran by British womens society) as it made no sense to me in the context of being there.

I earn more than what I would have at home and my standard of living is higher. I rent and its expensive. I would say for a comparible house in Scotland I'd pay about 40% of what I pay here and tax wise I pay a lot more than the UK, I net less than 50% of gross.... and top rate tax on any bonus/pay increase is now 68%. However overall I think we're still better off financially.

Weather is much better, people seem less friendly, in that they don't actually talk to you in the same way as they do at home and only some of that is down to being foreign. We're all now near fluent in German and French and with a bit of Dutch thrown in if really needed....Food is better in restaurants but supermarket shopping is a much poorer experience although local village shopping opportunities are better in that the baker makes it there and we have fishmonger and butcher in the village.

Schooling is very good as is healthcare but the latter is not 100% free and you need to pick up some Dr bills but again its a rareity.

You miss home but it makes for great fun trips back. You dont have a local security blanket so you learn to get very self sufficient within the family. This probably assists towards a lasting relationship in that there is a shared adversity.

Certainly a more positive than negative experience for us but its not all golden.....

Edited October 3, 2011 by abroad

[Riedquat]

The problem with emmigration is that it's usually not the people we could do without who emmigrate, although I can't see anyone else wanting them either.

[crashmonitor]

Property is still much better value in the eurozone

Depends where you are comparing it with, the massive collapse in house prices up North (as much as 30%) coupled with the collapse in the pound would make it far more difficult to find similar value in Europe now.

The areas that tend to be cheap in England are areas of no employment, but if you can work from home or can retire I think you would be pushed to find a cheaper place to live, especially considering our cheap food and free health care.

Not all of England is a chav fest either(one commentator in Japan on this thread pointed out he/she had esaped the chavs). Well thinking about the weekend I spent at Woodhall Spa, Lincolnshire,I can assure him that I was the only chav there. Basically the Windsor-like village resembled a scene from the Henley Regatta or Stepford Wives with 80s style Laura Ashley dresses seemingly obligatory for the ladies. However, you would get a good house there for £150,000 and a far more desirable location than 99% of Europe.

Edited October 3, 2011 by crashmonitor

[ccc]

If you are under 30 you would be a lunatic not to 'try before you buy' if thinking of moving to OZ, NZ or Canada. All easy to get one year visa and go there and see if it really is for you. Going on holiday somewhere and living somehwere are completely different experiences.

[Patriot]

I have spent half of the last twenty years outside of the UK, employed by various foreign Governments.

During the time I was in the UK my main objective was to depart. During the times I have been away, my main dream was always to return. Even now I am sitting here in the desert with the Daily Telegraph open in the other browser tab.

I have eventually figured that I love my country - but hate the politics. I will return someday, but I also know that,until the rhetoric changes, I will also depart.

[shipbuilder]

To anyone thinking of emigrating, while you might be able to leave the UK, you can't leave yourself. You need to be honest with yourself and find the real reasons why you want to leave.

[libspero]

To anyone thinking of emigrating, while you might be able to leave the UK, you can't leave yourself. You need to be honest with yourself and find the real reasons why you want to leave.

I would simply add to that.. that there's nothing wrong with trying it. If you have the option to travel abroad for an extended period then do it just for the experience. I don't know anyone who has ever regretted their foreign living/travels.

You may find you start to see life differently, and you always have the option to come home again if you change your mind.

Edited October 3, 2011 by libspero

[cybernoid]

I would simply add to that.. that there's nothing wrong with trying it. If you have the option to travel abroad for an extended period then do it just for the experience. I don't know anyone who has ever regretted their foreign living/travels.

You may find you start to see life differently, and you always have the option to come home again if you change your mind.

Indeed, it's not a one way door, you can go back. In fact you ought to rent somewhere temporarily just to see if it is for you... I can't imagine that people go for their first extended stay imagining that returning is out of the question. And since it is temporary in the first instance, why the hell not. All this 'grass isn't always greener' and 'you're running away from yourself' stuff is no reason not to give it a go. Nothing to lose, plenty to gain in terms of life experience and in terms of saved cash by my calculations.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

The areas that tend to be cheap in England are areas of no employment, but if you can work from home or can retire I think you would be pushed to find a cheaper place to live, especially considering our cheap food and free health care.

Not all of England is a chav fest either(one commentator in Japan on this thread pointed out he/she had esaped the chavs). Well thinking about the weekend I spent at Woodhall Spa, Lincolnshire,I can assure him that I was the only chav there.

To me chav means illiterate violent ignoramus, not working class. So I don't think you are a chav. My point was you don't see these types of people on the streets of Japan. Granted there are chinpira, but have never seen and I understand you have to pretty much seek the yakuza out to have dealings/a problem with them. If you have to have a standard job in the UK, you will run the risks of having to deal with chavs.

I am not sure the healthcare system in the UK is all that great. It isn't free, you have to pay eye watering amounts of tax for a service that is distinctly sub-par.

I would simply add to that.. that there's nothing wrong with trying it. If you have the option to travel abroad for an extended period then do it just for the experience. I don't know anyone who has ever regretted their foreign living/travels.

You may find you start to see life differently, and you always have the option to come home again if you change your mind.

Just like to echo that. If you do try make sure you don't burn bridges

[The Eagle]

I'll be going for better weather (in general), the chance to become fluent in another language (which can only help), better people and behaviour), better status as an engineer, more money, a better rental sector and not contributing anymore to a corrupt system largely depending on HPI mania. I'm mainly going for +ves, not leaving due to -ves. There ARE lots of positives for the UK, but I'm too young not to check out the rest of the world (and when I do think things are turning sour here and not likely to get better within a decade).

Exactly. Well said. Also emigrating doesn't mean never coming back. 100-200 years ago emigrating usually meant forever, but these days it's easy to come back for visits even several times a year (when emigrating to somewhere in Europe) and moving back is not a problem either.

[I want a house!]

I'm doing a PhD in Bioinformatics, me and the other-half are intending long-term to emigrate to NZ. This place is a hell-hole and I sure as hell don't want the kids to grow up in this sh1t-hole with no prospects and in a 3rd world, 3rd rate country.

I will see you there. Back to Auckland in 3 years time for me once I finish my degree.

[council dweller]

To me chav means illiterate violent ignoramus, not working class. So I don't think you are a chav. My point was you don't see these types of people on the streets of Japan. Granted there are chinpira, but have never seen and I understand you have to pretty much seek the yakuza out to have dealings/a problem with them. If you have to have a standard job in the UK, you will run the risks of having to deal with chavs.

I am not sure the healthcare system in the UK is all that great. It isn't free, you have to pay eye watering amounts of tax for a service that is distinctly sub-par.

Just like to echo that. If you do try make sure you don't burn bridges

Well, there are plenty of chavs in japan, you've just got to go to the places they go. I remember getting a job standing in-front of a newly opening department in 1990 (wearing a guardsman's uniform).

One of my colleagues said "it's just like being in Liverpool!" as the customers were so chavy....he was from there btw. 20k for 4 hours + free food...money for nothing.

....and if you're have trouble converting Pounds to Yen I'm sure it will be much easier soon when 10,000 Yen becomes 100 Pounds!

Anyway, good luck and love to the Mrs.

[kazap]

I think there are lots of great reasons to go explore the world, living in another country is clearly going to be an amazing experience and a chance to learn about a new culture and I'm sure learn about oneself in the process.

What I would say is don't do it just to run away from the UK. Every country has its own problems.

[guitarman001]

If you are under 30 you would be a lunatic not to 'try before you buy' if thinking of moving to OZ, NZ or Canada. All easy to get one year visa and go there and see if it really is for you. Going on holiday somewhere and living somehwere are completely different experiences.

I'm 27 this month... getting closer to that 30 limit lol. Unfortunately hols to Oz etc cost a bomb, but if anyone is serious about moving, I agree.

Here are a couple reasons which ARE putting me off the UK, in story form:

-Doctor's appointment this morning, first time in half a decade or so. Got up to p!shing rain outside. Went to the doctor and sat in the waiting room. Just over from me was this behemoth with meek boyfriend in tow (god I felt so sorry for him). She was big, loud, plain awful. She started to bang on about how she's on the list for a house, and was 'raging' that her 'pals' got placed in new-builds and she might get someplace close to a 'junkie' - but inevitably she will get one as she doesn't work and has a kid (yes, these people reveal as much as they can about themselves, some sort of badge of honour). Supposedly just treated her 5-year old girl with a Blackberry for her birthday. Cue nods of approval from scumbag elders (this is inter-generational now).

So I exit the doctors and take a stroll down the high street for the first time in ages! It's deteriorated (in terms of populace quality) - the council seem to have found money to have done up some buildings but the PEOPLE... all old and frail, or jakies walking around looking like skeletons, and one pre-dominant feature being young overweight mothers taking their kids out and shopping on the high street. I think I perhaps saw one looker, but even then when close she looked like a Daily Mail type, the sort that would sting you for your money, a real 'princess'.

B@gger all industry - lots of charity shops, hairdressers and the like. So now here I am, back home, back to work tomorrow to keep these people accustomed to the life they have. It strengthens my resolve to move - not that I ever will have kids, but I would not allow them to grow up here. It's a cancer. You can move to a nice area but cancer spreads - it will always be encroaching upon you.

[sympatex]

If you are under 30 you would be a lunatic not to 'try before you buy' if thinking of moving to OZ, NZ or Canada. All easy to get one year visa and go there and see if it really is for you. Going on holiday somewhere and living somehwere are completely different experiences.

This is what i want to do. I have just turned 30 but can squeeze onto the one year holiday/work visa. I am fed up here, i don't know if Aus will be any better, but as mentioned. its worth a look. if i dont try i wont ever know.

take voluntary redundency from work which will be about a years net pay which completes my house deposit should Aus not work out.

[ccc]

Many areas like this in Scotland. Hence my comments on the Independence thread. I cannot stand Scottish scum. If they were all vaporised tomorrow I honestly would not even blink. We are too small a country to have such a high proportion of wasters and survive.

Problem with the nice areas in Scotland is the prices are insane for most. 3 bed house in North Berwick ? No problem Sir - that willl be £350k please.

Mental.

[PopGun]

Just wait till the gloabalist/pro immigration/Uk workerz are lazy innit nutters start squealing when all the economic migrants start emmigrating to pastures new.

[abroad]

I am not sure the healthcare system in the UK is all that great. It isn't free, you have to pay eye watering amounts of tax for a service that is distinctly sub-par.

Well I pay more tax percentage wise than I would in the UK and still need to pay for some healthcare so be careful what you wish for............UK healthcare is also not sub par, its not without issues but there have been many improvements in waiting times etc etc. If you want sub par healthcare on a per capita basis, go to the US.

[Buccaneer]

Just wait till the globalist/pro immigration/Uk workers are lazy innit nutters start squealing when all the economic migrants start emigrating to pastures new.

Wishful thinking ?

Living standards* for the majority of the UK population are going to decline significantly but even a 50% reduction would still put the UK ahead of the home countries of many existing and potential economic migrants. Maybe those from the relatively more prosperous countries like Poland will return home but not the Romanians, Bulgarians, Nigerians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis etc who will still see the UK as a land of opportunity (and free money).

* healthcare, education, public order, infrastructure, housing, disposable income

[ccc]

This is what i want to do. I have just turned 30 but can squeeze onto the one year holiday/work visa. I am fed up here, i don't know if Aus will be any better, but as mentioned. its worth a look. if i dont try i wont ever know.

take voluntary redundency from work which will be about a years net pay which completes my house deposit should Aus not work out.

The good thing is (Unless it has changed) each visa lasts for 12 months before you have to start using. So it would be a waste not to get 2 of them just now. Don't cost a huge amount and if you come back home again you have the option of another 11.5 months in another country. Just have to be careful about the dates.

I liked all 3 - but they are all different. Would not want to recommend two in particular.

Oz def has a bit more of an edge to it than the other two. The other two are a bit more 'nice' IMO but a lot of people would, for that reason, find them a bit more 'boring'. All what you make of it though. Everyone has differnt opinions though. Good luck.

I would go back but I am too old now. Well apart from NZ up to 35 visa that I will prob get for 6 months if it is still around.

[Game_Over]

Many times on this forum people talk about how crap our country is at the moment and the fact they are thinking about or intending to emigrate in the near future.

Personally I don't understand the logic in this. When things get tough economically there is usually a rise in anti-foreigner rhetoric and general hostility towards immigrants. Seeing as this is a global economic crisis why would anybody feel safe becoming an immigrant in another country at this present time, with the potential of the locals being very hostile at your arrival?

Could anybody thinking of emigrating explain to me why they think they'd be better off in a foreign land at this moment in time?

Because hard work and honesty are no longer rewarded in this country.

Thanks to Nu Labour this country rewards the feckless and dishonest.

Socialists believe that everyone is created equal and it makes no difference if we swap millions of honest hard working people for millions of dishonest, welfare fiddling people

But the truth is - it does - because people are not all the same.