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The Problem With Emigration

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Many times on this forum people talk about how crap our country is at the moment and the fact they are thinking about or intending to emigrate in the near future.

Personally I don't understand the logic in this. When things get tough economically there is usually a rise in anti-foreigner rhetoric and general hostility towards immigrants. Seeing as this is a global economic crisis why would anybody feel safe becoming an immigrant in another country at this present time, with the potential of the locals being very hostile at your arrival?

Could anybody thinking of emigrating explain to me why they think they'd be better off in a foreign land at this moment in time?

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There are times this country does my head in.

I get mad when I see how the people are treated by their politicians, lied to and generally treated like idiots.

It hacks me off to see people taking advantage of the system, and nothing is done to stop them.

It makes me furious when people break the law and are treated with kid gloves and not given the sentences they so clearly deserve.

I could go on.

But for all the negatives about this country, the positives stare at me every day. I am a Londoner born and bred, and I travel to other countries and love what I see. People chat to me when they find out where I'm from, especially the Americans, where pulling is a doddle once I open my mouth!! But nothing beats coming home and waving my British passport at customs.

The last thing I'm going to do is let any politician, or anyone else for that matter, drive me out of the country. I'll fight to the end. And for anyone thinking of leaving, I say, shut the door behind you when you go.

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Many times on this forum people talk about how crap our country is at the moment and the fact they are thinking about or intending to emigrate in the near future.

Personally I don't understand the logic in this. When things get tough economically there is usually a rise in anti-foreigner rhetoric and general hostility towards immigrants. Seeing as this is a global economic crisis why would anybody feel safe becoming an immigrant in another country at this present time, with the potential of the locals being very hostile at your arrival?

Could anybody thinking of emigrating explain to me why they think they'd be better off in a foreign land at this moment in time?

My son went to work in Australia at the beginning of this year. He is much better off, has much better job prospects, and he says the natives are friendly as well.

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There are times this country does my head in.

I get mad when I see how the people are treated by their politicians, lied to and generally treated like idiots.

It hacks me off to see people taking advantage of the system, and nothing is done to stop them.

It makes me furious when people break the law and are treated with kid gloves and not given the sentences they so clearly deserve.

I could go on.

But for all the negatives about this country, the positives stare at me every day. I am a Londoner born and bred, and I travel to other countries and love what I see. People chat to me when they find out where I'm from, especially the Americans, where pulling is a doddle once I open my mouth!! But nothing beats coming home and waving my British passport at customs.

The last thing I'm going to do is let any politician, or anyone else for that matter, drive me out of the country. I'll fight to the end. And for anyone thinking of leaving, I say, shut the door behind you when you go.

Some good points....except the last bit...the door will be open when you decide to come back. ;)

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I'll be going for better weather (in general), the chance to become fluent in another language (which can only help), better people and behaviour), better status as an engineer, more money, a better rental sector and not contributing anymore to a corrupt system largely depending on HPI mania. I'm mainly going for +ves, not leaving due to -ves. There ARE lots of positives for the UK, but I'm too young not to check out the rest of the world (and when I do think things are turning sour here and not likely to get better within a decade).

Edited by guitarman001

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I'll be going for better weather (in general), the chance to become fluent in another language (which can only help), better people and behaviour), better status as an engineer, more money, a better rental sector and not contributing anymore to a corrupt system largely depending on HPI mania. I'm mainly going for +ves, not leaving due to -ves. There ARE lots of positives for the UK, but I'm too young not to check out the rest of the world (and when I do think things are turning sour here and not likely to get better within a decade).

Where are you going and who (in general terms) is giving you a job? I'm not competition, by the way, as I'm not an engineer. I'm just interested.

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Am in Japan on a spouse visa. Got a non English teaching job which is a bonus. Better weather, food, natives are friendly. No chavs. Long hours though but I am earning decent money. Colleagues are nice and usually have a good chat over lunch in the local sashimi restaurant, which is good cos most of the time the office is very quiet. Have been to livelier graveyards. The language is difficult though but my knowledge of Chinese means I can read a fair amount for gist. Its pretty good so far. See how it goes. Even if things get bad in Japan I'd be surprised if I end up being strung up by an angry mob. Japanese ppl pride themselves on their manners.

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Many times on this forum people talk about how crap our country is at the moment and the fact they are thinking about or intending to emigrate in the near future.

Personally I don't understand the logic in this. When things get tough economically there is usually a rise in anti-foreigner rhetoric and general hostility towards immigrants. Seeing as this is a global economic crisis why would anybody feel safe becoming an immigrant in another country at this present time, with the potential of the locals being very hostile at your arrival?

Could anybody thinking of emigrating explain to me why they think they'd be better off in a foreign land at this moment in time?

Being a foreigner in another country is generally fine as long as you observe the local sensibilities and don't take any stupid risks. It is not really any different to living in almost any town centre in the UK. Don't go out of your way to wind up the chavs or walk home late at night in dodgy areas and you will be ok. The local culture may not be to your taste but it is their culture, you are a foreigner and the locals have priority. There may be inequality, unfairness, stupid bureaucracy, racism and many things that you don't like but somehow when you know that you can always leave for your home country they don't matter so much.

A problem with living in the UK is that there is no single culture. It has been sacrificed on the altar of multiculturalism and many British people feel like a foreigners in their own country. Worse still, minority ways of life enjoy positive discrimination. The majority don't have priority and when there is inequality, unfairness, stupid bureaucracy, racism etc you don't have a home country to run to. These issues seem more important when they apply to somewhere that you have ties to and may have to be long term.

As for the positive benefits of being in a foreign land they are many and various depending where you choose to be. The weather is almost always better, taxes are usually lower and it is often possible to enjoy a much higher standard of living than you could in the UK making a similar income.

...........and housing is often of better quality and cheaper!

B)

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There is certainly a potential issue regarding how welcome you will be, unthinking bigots unfortunately make up a proportion of any population, the uk included. The success of the daily mail is proof of this.

But as a renter,there is much better value to be found abroad. And you are not ripped off at every turn. Renting in the uk now is at it's worst, amateur ignorant and arrogant 'rent it out instead' landlords are joining the fray, rents are high, utility bills are high and rising, we have council tax etc etc. You will save a lot and live in better surroundings by going abroad.

Then there's the non financial benefits, the new cultural experiences etc. It is rather refreshing to go for a wander through a town well into the evening on the continent to find families out and about just enjoying one anothers company. Try doing that in the uk and you'll have the less pleasant sight of teenagers dressed as hookers vomiting in the street.

There are plenty of reasons for doing it, and doing it now. You can always come back, and you'll have saved up some cash and enjoyed a more varied existence.

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As someone engaged to an American this is an issue we're both thinking about, because after we get married next summer then one of us, obviously is going to emigrate.

Weighing up the pros and cons is a complex equation. Learning to exist in a new country - even one where there isn't a language issue - is a learning curve and can be stressful: everything from getting to grips with the tax system, having to take the driving test again, finding out how local government works to understanding local customs and conventions, not inadvertently offending people and so on and so forth. If you didn't grow up with it you have to learn it. I think I'd find not being able to vote in the country I'm living in and paying taxes in annoying (which I wouldn't be able to do unless I settled there permanently and eventually became a citizen), and of coruse the longer you're away the more difficult and expensive it will become to return to the UK (not having paid NI for longer than a certain time reduces your entitlement to NHS treatment, for example).

Emigrating can make sense (and our current thinking is that it'll probably be me who goes to the US), but it's not something to do purely as a response to short-term political, economic or quality-of-life problems in the UK, IMO.

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There is certainly a potential issue regarding how welcome you will be, unthinking bigots unfortunately make up a proportion of any population, the uk included. The success of the daily mail is proof of this.

But as a renter,there is much better value to be found abroad. And you are not ripped off at every turn. Renting in the uk now is at it's worst, amateur ignorant and arrogant 'rent it out instead' landlords are joining the fray, rents are high, utility bills are high and rising, we have council tax etc etc. You will save a lot and live in better surroundings by going abroad.

Then there's the non financial benefits, the new cultural experiences etc. It is rather refreshing to go for a wander through a town well into the evening on the continent to find families out and about just enjoying one anothers company. Try doing that in the uk and you'll have the less pleasant sight of teenagers dressed as hookers vomiting in the street.

There are plenty of reasons for doing it, and doing it now. You can always come back, and you'll have saved up some cash and enjoyed a more varied existence.

I agree with that.....there will always be those who will never venture out into the unknown, they prefer what they know and will stick with it come what may.....others are more adaptable and like the thought of change and a new adventure....learning the language of the country you plan to visit and mixing with new people, their cultures and practices is a must....that is all the fun of it....you never know what is around the corner...if you never look around it you never will find out what you could have missed. ;)

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Where are you going and who (in general terms) is giving you a job? I'm not competition, by the way, as I'm not an engineer. I'm just interested.

I've got contacts in some semiconductor companies in Austria. Vienna would be expensive, but I'm thinking Villach. If not their, then Dresden or Munich (again expensive but great quality of life - been before). I haven't got a job yet - for various reasons I'm here for another year at least. I WILL make the move before I'm 30 (and I'm 27 this month). I need to be 100% committed to moving abroad, I know a good agent (yeah, you read that right) who can help me out with a whole range of things. Currently learning German. I view learning another language as very important - can't wait to get to a high standard!

Would earn MUCH more in the States, but employment rights, health costs and holidays put me off - not to mention treating everybody as a terrorist.

EDIT: My aunt came from a rough part of Scotland, married a Frenchman and has lived there for decades - she hasn't looked back. If she can do it, I can.

The point about positive discrimination toward minorities is a good one.

Edited by guitarman001

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I'm doing a PhD in Bioinformatics, me and the other-half are intending long-term to emigrate to NZ. This place is a hell-hole and I sure as hell don't want the kids to grow up in this sh1t-hole with no prospects and in a 3rd world, 3rd rate country.

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It's about community not nation.

If you've got a strong community - if you live close to your family, know your neighbours and use local businesses, there's little that crap government can do to damage it. Some areas of Britain have this and some don't. But, moving abroad won't recreate it.

The challenge for people who find themselves bereft of community is how to build community not how to find community. And it'll be a damn sight easier to build connections in the country in which you are native.

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It's about community not nation.

If you've got a strong community - if you live close to your family, know your neighbours and use local businesses, there's little that crap government can do to damage it. Some areas of Britain have this and some don't. But, moving abroad won't recreate it.

The challenge for people who find themselves bereft of community is how to build community not how to find community. And it'll be a damn sight easier to build connections in the country in which you are native.

I used to live in a small town in Cornwall, Camelford and the other half comes from Street, Somerset. We can't get work or afford to live in those area so we now find ourself isolated in Kent. We are also priced out in Kent.

That is why we are moving to Ireland next year! We are already isolated from our friends and family, at least we can afford a nice house there. We like to live in the country, and visit the local community down the pub.

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I'm doing a PhD in Bioinformatics, me and the other-half are intending long-term to emigrate to NZ. This place is a hell-hole and I sure as hell don't want the kids to grow up in this sh1t-hole with no prospects and in a 3rd world, 3rd rate country.

Aotearoa........................ heavenly :)

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But for all the negatives about this country, the positives stare at me every day. I am a Londoner born and bred

Agree. Same here - born/bred in London and lived here most my live (apart from a few years in Scandinavia) Love going away but always look forward to coming home! :)

But good luck to those looking to live/work abroad, is a great experience -just make to sure to learn the lingo and you will be fine ;)

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My observation is that people who move abroad because they're miserable in the UK tend to be just as miserable wherever they end up. The perceived reasons for that misery may be different of course (e.g. replace high housing costs with distance from family). People that move for a specific opportunity or, indeed, by random chance, seem to do much better. I'm on my fourth stint out of the UK now (1 was for a woman, the other 3 were for work) and I've enjoyed all of them. This time I'm thinking of staying for good and, whilst I'll admit there's some stuff about the UK I'm very glad to see the back of, I certainly didn't leave because I thought it was a crap place to live in the general sense.

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My observation is that people who move abroad because they're miserable in the UK tend to be just as miserable wherever they end up. The perceived reasons for that misery may be different of course (e.g. replace high housing costs with distance from family). People that move for a specific opportunity or, indeed, by random chance, seem to do much better. I'm on my fourth stint out of the UK now (1 was for a woman, the other 3 were for work) and I've enjoyed all of them. This time I'm thinking of staying for good and, whilst I'll admit there's some stuff about the UK I'm very glad to see the back of, I certainly didn't leave because I thought it was a crap place to live in the general sense.

...you can't run away from your problems....they always catch up in the end. ;)

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Many times on this forum people talk about how crap our country is at the moment and the fact they are thinking about or intending to emigrate in the near future.

Personally I don't understand the logic in this. When things get tough economically there is usually a rise in anti-foreigner rhetoric and general hostility towards immigrants. Seeing as this is a global economic crisis why would anybody feel safe becoming an immigrant in another country at this present time, with the potential of the locals being very hostile at your arrival?

Could anybody thinking of emigrating explain to me why they think they'd be better off in a foreign land at this moment in time?

You are thinking too short term as if the economic crisis is going to be finished soon and in the countries with the worst debt, the fairies aren't going to come and sort it out one night soon. Most of the people in the UK are now life long slaves to banks, corporations and highly paid public sector workers/pensioners and are going to be paying for it via stealth taxes until they are driven to an early grave. Work more, pay more, get less.

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Could anybody thinking of emigrating explain to me why they think they'd be better off in a foreign land at this moment in time?

In times gone by, many parts of the world were barely civilised and certainly not places to consider a career and family life compared to what the UK could offer.

Now even developing countries offer opportunities for a high standard of living and career prospects. The UK's relative power and influence is fading.. economic heavy weights are growing up around it and there will be plenty of opportunities for those wishing to explore and see what the world has to offer.

Low cost of housing, higher standard of living, better education, warmer climate and decent food would be on my list of attractions to other countries.

Things that would attract me to remain in the UK are friends and relatives, comfort from familiarity, British humour and lethargy.

[Edit : Remove flippant comment ]

Edited by libspero

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The problem with emigration is that you needed to do it a few years ago before the pound collapsed. Either that or have no money so the exchange rate makes no difference.

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As an immigrant to the UK, emigration poses many challenges. I'm away from my friends, family and points of reference. On a positive note, I've found a wonderful village within striking distance of London. There's a wonderful community, a strong school, and an ethos I never found at home.

Unfortunately it also means I'm in striking range of the in-laws. But no where is perfect...,,,

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Personally I don't understand the logic in this. When things get tough economically there is usually a rise in anti-foreigner rhetoric and general hostility towards immigrants. Seeing as this is a global economic crisis why would anybody feel safe becoming an immigrant in another country at this present time, with the potential of the locals being very hostile at your arrival?

I've lived and worked abroad for 15 of the last 20 years - mostly in Asia and North America. The only place I've ever been violently attacked is Paddington Station.

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The problem with emigration is that you needed to do it a few years ago before the pound collapsed. Either that or have no money so the exchange rate makes no difference.

Property is still much better value in the eurozone

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  • 334 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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