Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
CleverBear

Why Is The Labour Party Pro-European?

Recommended Posts

It seems like almost every labour voter is concerned with immigration, and the job and housing problems that they think this immigration has exagerated in the country.

Many true socialists like Tony Benn (I cant remmeber exactly what he said but he is anti-eu) say the EU is a dangerous and undemocratic organisation which is removing power from westminster (hard to argue against), and therefore removing power from the people.

So why on earth are the labour party so rigidly behind the european project? It makes no sense. It definatly isnt a vote winner with swing voters, or with their own voters who might be turned to BNP/not voting.

I have never seen a single good arguement for being a part of the EU.

Edited by CleverBear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like almost every labour voter is concerned with immigration, and the job and housing problems that they think this immigration has exagerated in the country.

Many true socialists like Tony Benn (I cant remmeber exactly what he said but he is anti-eu) say the EU is a dangerous and undemocratic organisation which is removing power from westminster (hard to argue against), and therefore removing power from the people.

So why on earth are the labour party so rigidly behind the european project? It makes no sense. It definatly isnt a vote winner with swing voters, or with their own voters who might be turned to BNP/not voting.

I have never seen a single good arguement for being a part of the EU.

The Labour Party are pro the Labour Party

The Tory Party are pro the Tory Party

The LibDem Party are pro the LibDem Party

Once that aspect is grasped you can stop arsing about with this representative gravy train/theft/democracy nonsense

or carry on endorsing the everpresent system of theft/corruption by voting for any party that stands under such a system, democracy will never be represented by foregoing that right of choice via 600 self interested cretins in Westminster

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's because New Labour morphed into a party of middle class liberals more worried about their careers than the plight of the working class.

There's also the whole human rightist pro-immigrant element that lefties lap up to show they care, and we know that in this day and age it's more important to wear the right coloured wrist band than to deal with logic and the facts on the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never seen a single good arguement for being a part of the EU.

Free trade, free movement of people and free movement of capital are all good arguments. The problem is, they're all good arguments for something like the EEC used to be, not for an integrated European super state. I think politicians of all parties like to pretend that we still have the latter, not the former. Not sure why though, maybe they've all been brainwashed by the Lizard People?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Free trade, free movement of people and free movement of capital are all good arguments. The problem is, they're all good arguments for something like the EEC used to be, not for an integrated European super state.

quite, and as norway and switzerland show us, they are totally possible to have while not being part of the EU.

we don't have the complete freedom of movement anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like almost every labour voter is concerned with immigration, and the job and housing problems that they think this immigration has exagerated in the country.

Many true socialists like Tony Benn (I cant remmeber exactly what he said but he is anti-eu) say the EU is a dangerous and undemocratic organisation which is removing power from westminster (hard to argue against), and therefore removing power from the people.

So why on earth are the labour party so rigidly behind the european project? It makes no sense. It definatly isnt a vote winner with swing voters, or with their own voters who might be turned to BNP/not voting.

I have never seen a single good arguement for being a part of the EU.

Because when they get voted out of office now,

Instead of going into the most expensive OAP's home in the country ie the House of Lords

They now get jobs in Europe and get paid millions of quid for interferring in people's lives.

Look a the Kinnock family and 'baroness' Ashton

In the private sector people like this would be pushing a tea trolley or brushing up.

:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this case the fact that most Tories are independently wealthy is an extremely good thing.

When they get voted out of office they can make millions in the city or working in the family business

As a result they have no need the sell the whole country down the river in order to perpetuate a massive gravy train in Europe.

Why any ordinary Labour voters support the EU, however, is completely beyond me.

Seems like Turkeys voting for Xmas.

:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What they all said above.

Plus it appeals to a.) their statist tendencies and b.). their inherent infantilism (it wasnt our fault everything to ******ed up, it was that EU that made us do it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the arguments against having EU government could also be used against having a UK, national, or even local government.

For example - If the English had had independance they would not have got a one eyed cretinous, bad tempered fat jock as prime minister.

As for gravy-trains, which came first, the politician, or the trough?

Edited by vin rouge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like almost every labour voter is concerned with immigration, and the job and housing problems that they think this immigration has exagerated in the country.

Many true socialists like Tony Benn (I cant remmeber exactly what he said but he is anti-eu) say the EU is a dangerous and undemocratic organisation which is removing power from westminster (hard to argue against), and therefore removing power from the people.

So why on earth are the labour party so rigidly behind the european project? It makes no sense. It definatly isnt a vote winner with swing voters, or with their own voters who might be turned to BNP/not voting.

I have never seen a single good arguement for being a part of the EU.

Because Labour are international socialists - always have been - linking up with their socialist brethern in the EU has always been their goal. If they cared about UK citizens as they are meant to then they'd be National Socialists... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's because New Labour morphed into a party of middle class liberals more worried about their careers than the plight of the working class.

There's also the whole human rightist pro-immigrant element that lefties lap up to show they care, and we know that in this day and age it's more important to wear the right coloured wrist band than to deal with logic and the facts on the ground.

lol true. But why do something their voters hate. Surely more people would vote labour if they went euro sceptic/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the arguments against having EU government could also be used against having a UK, national, or even local government.

Bingo. Government should be as small as possible and as local as possible. The EU is the complete opposite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing more than "ideaology"! Once you have that, you can kiss "common sense" goodbye! :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because in the 80s, Jacques Delors told them that they could stuff Thatcher by imposing left-wing policies at the European level.

So its a policy that allows them to sidestep democracy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So its a policy that allows them to sidestep democracy?

Well, duh; that's the whole point of the EU.

But I still think that greed -- all those phat jobs for failed socialist politicians in the EU bureaucracy -- explains more than ideology.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, duh; that's the whole point of the EU.

But I still think that greed -- all those phat jobs for failed socialist politicians in the EU bureaucracy -- explains more than ideology.

The day we leave the EU I will be so delighted. I am going to join UKIP and intend to donate them a bit (I dont have alot) of money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because in the 80s, Jacques Delors told them that they could stuff Thatcher by imposing left-wing policies at the European level.

I think that's a very pertinent comment.

Back then, the EU was at least perceived as a socialist force . . . human rights, good labour laws and so on. It's why John Major opted out of the Maastricht Social Chapter.

New Labour saw the EU as enabling a wonderful source of cheap labour to be exploited . . . and it did just that.

It's all changed since then. I don't think any Labour voters really know what they're voting for these days . . . and the Labour Movement (laugh) is just media luvvies and lawyers. If they have a clue about the rest of Europe, I'd be surprised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that's a very pertinent comment.

Back then, the EU was at least perceived as a socialist force . . . human rights, good labour laws and so on. It's why John Major opted out of the Maastricht Social Chapter.

New Labour saw the EU as enabling a wonderful source of cheap labour to be exploited . . . and it did just that.

It's all changed since then. I don't think any Labour voters really know what they're voting for these days . . . and the Labour Movement (laugh) is just media luvvies and lawyers. If they have a clue about the rest of Europe, I'd be surprised.

Those of us old enough to remember know that the European Community divided the Labour Party in the 1970s just as bitterly as it divided the Tories in later decades.

It was the reason there was a referendum on EEC membership in 1975.

It was hot issue long before the Maastricht Treaty started shipping off power to Brussels in a big way.

In fact it now appears that the original left wing view that Europe was a club for entrenching the power of a small bureaucratic, political and financial elite may have been spot on..

Tony Benn (not a man with whom I normally agree) said at the time that the EEC was

.[

"bureaucratic and centralised" and "of course it is really dominated by Germany. All the Common Market countries except the UK have been occupied by Germany, and they have this mixed feeling of hatred and subservience towards the Germans"

Prophetic words as it turned out as the Greeks have found out.

Edited by stormymonday_2011

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To say the EU undermines the UK's power is also to ignore that the UK itself undermines the power of its electorate. For example, removing EU human rights legislation (as Theresa May now wants to do, for the claimed reason of chucking out terrorist suspects - note "suspects" not tried under due process), will substantially weaken the power of individuals to challenge the UK government on a host of issues.

Enshrined in much EU legislation are all sorts of regulations which directly benefit the UK consumer, amongst which are consumer fair contracts, landlord and tenant law that used to be in the dark ages, a palpable improvement in access to legal challenge, and various cultural and social advantages.

EU bashing has become a tired cliche which seeks to write-off much ignored benefits. We should concentrate on the removal of EU corruption and waste, but that doesn't mean the entire edifice of European cooperation should be demolished. The EU has prevented the UK from becoming a myopic, self-centred, prejudiced, bigoted and reactionary nation and also encouraged a turnaround in the kind of isolationist policies which were bad not just for business but also for social advances. By all means protest about the waste and corruption, but be aware there is a lot of the same going on within our own shores.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because they have belatedly bought into the economic benefits which the EU provides.

Like all the main parties in this country, however, the Labour 'Pro-European' label is more apparent than real; the idea has been sold to their supporters on the basis of economic benefit only, with no attempt to explain the powerful political dynamic that has been driving the Union since the end of the last war. The result; a thin veneer of pro european policy, easily shattered by events and the politicking of individuals like Gordon Brown. The average Labour supporter is no more pro european than the average Tory (unfortunately, in my view).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 337 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.