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Indeed, increased costs/taxes tend to dissapate amougst all parties involved in a transaction chain. Its a kind of Economic osmosis caused by everyone always trying to squese thier costs and maximise thier revenue.

In this case affordability of rents will go down in some proportion to a renters increased cost of living such that both parties end up taking a hit.

Really it annoys me that such simple concepts have to continually spelt out to supposedly intelligent HPC readers.

Yes but remember there is a lag for the new equilibrium to establish itself. Were it introduced today the renters would take all the hit. After a while the market would adjust itself so as to reduce rents by a certain amount & in principle this tax would in effect be paid partly by landlords (maybe even most of it)

Simple example is that this tax will make people on the margin reconsider their housing needs & people will live denser resulting in less demand for houses both rented and owned.

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Yes but remember there is a lag for the new equilibrium to establish itself. Were it introduced today the renters would take all the hit. After a while the market would adjust itself so as to reduce rents by a certain amount & in principle this tax would in effect be paid partly by landlords (maybe even most of it)

Simple example is that this tax will make people on the margin reconsider their housing needs & people will live denser resulting in less demand for houses both rented and owned.

The argument is an equilibrium argument, and it would take some time to establish equilibrium, but I think you are naive if you think the rise would be passed on initially.

A large number of people, when faced with a rise in rent, would either refuse to pay or not be able to pay. This includes Landlords whose tenants claim housing benefit.

Some landlords may not be able to raise the rent until the end of a certain period and would have to take the hit, others might try and succeed, and yet others would try and fail.

Exactly the same mixture of things happened recently when VAT was lowered and then raised.

Contrary to popular opinion, landlords do not have magical powers.

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If Greece is anything like the UK it needs to increase the taxes it charges to capital holders rather than workers.

It is definitly fair because those who have amassed large amounts if capital have by in large done so through theft legal or illegal.

You don't become a multimillionaire by working a second job 10h a week! You do it through unearned speculation, you do it through others becoming your debt slaves

To that end this tax is better than most. they should go further and introduce a business rates tax like in the UK if they don't have one already. If they do they should double it.

At the same time they should increase the minimum wage to 10 euro/ph

The black economy should also be clamped down hard. Thus point also goes for the UK. I know flipping FTSE companies thriving off the black economy which slaves & steals to pay the rents and prices the FTSE companies demand

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The argument is an equilibrium argument, and it would take some time to establish equilibrium, but I think you are naive if you think the rise would be passed on initially.

A large number of people, when faced with a rise in rent, would either refuse to pay or not be able to pay. This includes Landlords whose tenants claim housing benefit.

Some landlords may not be able to raise the rent until the end of a certain period and would have to take the hit, others might try and succeed, and yet others would try and fail.

Exactly the same mixture of things happened recently when VAT was lowered and then raised.

Contrary to popular opinion, landlords do not have magical powers.

Your looking at the wrong side as the gov haVe put the initial burdon on the renters as it is paid by the electricity bill. So the renters stuck in a years contract got no choice. Once at the end of the term said renters would demand lower rents. overall renters would achieve this lowering if rents because at least a proportion will be willing to lower their demand (move back with family. Live in a smaller house. Live mire densely etc)

So overall this tax would result in a slow decrease in real rents.. if I were to guess rents would decrease by more than half the tax so in effect the landlords would pay mire than half the tax

also note this is true for all taxes (again allowing time for an equilibrium change).

for instance in the UK were income tax to be abolished a lit of that money would go into landlords pockets & a transfer of wealth from those who have no property to those who do. likewise if income tax doubled a lot of that would be taken from landlords & the transfer of wealth the other way

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Your looking at the wrong side as the gov haVe put the initial burdon on the renters as it is paid by the electricity bill. So the renters stuck in a years contract got no choice. Once at the end of the term said renters would demand lower rents. overall renters would achieve this lowering if rents because at least a proportion will be willing to lower their demand (move back with family. Live in a smaller house. Live mire densely etc)

So overall this tax would result in a slow decrease in real rents.. if I were to guess rents would decrease by more than half the tax so in effect the landlords would pay mire than half the tax

also note this is true for all taxes (again allowing time for an equilibrium change).

for instance in the UK were income tax to be abolished a lit of that money would go into landlords pockets & a transfer of wealth from those who have no property to those who do. likewise if income tax doubled a lot of that would be taken from landlords & the transfer of wealth the other way

Rents are a form of tax.

Like all taxes they are paid due to terror and lack of alternatives, they don't reduce down due to market forces as they aren't part of the market in the first place.

What happens is rents are high and stay there until their is a real kick off.

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You can't go off grid with your own solar/wind without at least having a backup generator. Battery packs won't do and you will find generating from your diesel generator very expensive. Your probably looking at 900 litres of fuel a year plus generator cost & depreciation & maintenance

In the UK you couldn't, but in Greece you could. For about 9 months of the year, a (say) 5 kW array will generate 25 kWh during the day - more than you could reasonably use. You'd need batteries to get through the night, if you were clever with heavy loads and ran them during the day and switched to LED lighting, you'd probably get away with 1 kWh of battery capacity - approx 300 Ah of 12v battery, so 3 x leisure batteries. A typical off grid installation would have 2000 Ah of battery. During the winter, you're down to about 10 kWh off the array, which is certainly a lot more than I use on a daily basis here in the UK.

I ran the numbers for my mum's place in Spain - the exam question was "could you go off grid and also run a Tesla car from an array on the garage roof". For most of the year, not only could I power the house, but also generate something like 150 miles of range a day. OK, it was a big ass array, but then it is a big ass garage.

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You can't go off grid with your own solar/wind without at least having a backup generator. Battery packs won't do and you will find generating from your diesel generator very expensive. Your probably looking at 900 litres of fuel a year plus generator cost & depreciation & maintenance

People should be using less electricity anyway.

If this encourages people to reduce their use and go off-grid then it's a fantastic thing to happen. Greece is at least warm and sunny most of the time.

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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