Due Diligence On Property

[KingBingo]

When I find a house I like on Rightmove I usually do two things,

1) Check the last sold price on: http://www.nethouseprices.com

2) Get a current estimate on: http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/calculator.asp?calculate=true

This gives me a starting point for valuation.

However, I just tried this on a particular property: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-35271119.html

and zoopla has a sale back in Feb of this year: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/19-recreation-road/bromley/br2-0dy/2490263

Yet nethouseprice.com makes no referance to this sale, although I can well believe it, the places smacks of 'done up to sell'. Anyone know why nethouseprice.com missed the last sale and is zoopla better. Indeed, more generally what do you guys do to start working out value when you see something you might like?

[KingBingo]

P.S before anyone says anything, I don't want to buy that house, I just check out all property coming on the market in my target area.

It looks like a 'trendy person's' idea of a nice home.....on the cheap......and not paying them a profit of £36,950 for a couple of months work in a falling market.

[Blod]

It is listed as sold on http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=BR2+0DY

I assume that you know of propertybee?

[SarahBell]

streetview

police maps

planning permission/building regs

[winkie]

The town, village, areas web site.

[winkie]

P.S before anyone says anything, I don't want to buy that house, I just check out all property coming on the market in my target area.

It looks like a 'trendy person's' idea of a nice home.....on the cheap......and not paying them a profit of £36,950 for a couple of months work in a falling market.

Just looked at it.....'the stage is set'.

We used to say look through the furniture the decor and see how it could look with 'a bit' of money spent on it.

[The Masked Tulip]

I do what you do but I also tend to look in areas that I know so I roughly know about stuff like knotweed, drainage, build quality of house, etc, etc.

I also tend to do a walk around the area - see if I can walk easily to and from key areas to the house. I have asthma, viewed a lovely house a few months back but it was just too hilly and too far from the nearest bus stops and shops for me, stuff like that. Check out bus routes also.

But, and I know people ridicule me for visiting EAs regularly, but it means that I have built up a good relationship with 2 or 3 EAs in the area who are more than happy to give their view on certain properties, the area, etc. So I get good info from them.

[Redcellar]

Just looked at it.....'the stage is set'.

We used to say look through the furniture the decor and see how it could look with 'a bit' of money spent on it.

I love their idea of 'making space'. The living room in the back garden I have never seen before

really did make me laugh.

On topic, nice to know where to search to get empirical evidence as to a real value. Hard for anyone to argue with I guess. Though of course 'my house is different'.

EDIT: how about that police crime stats site too? and checking out school league tables, schools tend to be better performers in nicer areas.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Redcellar

[Neverland]

It is listed as sold on http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=BR2+0DY

I assume that you know of propertybee?

I haven't bothered with propertybee yet because we haven't yet exchanged and because I can't be bothered to install firefox

However, I'm getting irritated that Zoopla/Rightmove aren't picking up a lot of property price movements

Is Propertybee comprehensive or just patchy like everything else?

PS. I'm looking in central london which means flats rather than houses which are much more complex to track

[SarahBell]

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[frenchy]

Same as all above posts but I would like to add that to me the size of the plot and the size of the house matter to me.

size of the house you can work out from floor plan and room sizes (usually two adjoining bedroom - upstairs - will give you the width and the adjoining living and dining room will give you the length). Alternatively, just email the EA and ask for a full copy of the EPC (*) - they all have pdf versions of it and will email back to you even if you haven't asked for a viewing.

For the plot size you can start with aerial photos but they are never square on. The better way to do it is to look for any planning application in the street and in there there will be an OS map (site plan) which will show neighboring plots, use the scale to then measure plot size. If plot has a weird shape use this link to work out sqm:

http://www.land.net/calc_four.php (area of any four-sided lot)

The reason I pay attention to plot size is that as we all know, building a house is cheap and you pay for land, so a 4 bed house (say 100m2) on a small plot is worth less to me than a 3 bed house (say 80m2) on a bigger plot. Similarily I would rather buy (and pay more) a 110m2 3bed than a 90m2 4 bed. I believe a lot of buyers would go for the 4 bed house without thinking, because it has 4 beds.... even it is smaller. Whenever I tell EA I look at prices per m2 rather than per bedroom they seem all stunned.

(*) beware, integral garage area is usually included, if the garage is attached but to the side rather than integral its area usually isn't included.

[Mrs Bear]

When I find a house I like on Rightmove I usually do two things,

1) Check the last sold price on: http://www.nethouseprices.com

2) Get a current estimate on: http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/calculator.asp?calculate=true

This gives me a starting point for valuation.

However, I just tried this on a particular property: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-35271119.html

and zoopla has a sale back in Feb of this year: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/19-recreation-road/bromley/br2-0dy/2490263

Yet nethouseprice.com makes no referance to this sale, although I can well believe it, the places smacks of 'done up to sell'. Anyone know why nethouseprice.com missed the last sale and is zoopla better. Indeed, more generally what do you guys do to start working out value when you see something you might like?

I check last sold price for that one + ditto for anything similar.

and of course asking prices for anything else similar (not always possible) and check them out, pref. in person. Difficult to tell otherwise, since condition plays a big part. Last sold price can make you think the AP is a ripoff but there could have been a lot of work done.

My younger is just embarking on a fairly major renovation of an Edwardian maisonette, nothing done properly if at all for God knows how long, and although the work will look cosmetic, it involves (besides new k&b and complete redec.) a complete rewire + replumb, new boiler, new windows, some minor building repair, you name it, and pretty pricey all told.

Whereas my elder is about to offer on a property in Oxford, immaculate, not even a paintbrush needed. Vendors have been there 6 yrs and the AP, although substantially reduced, is somewhat more than they paid. OTOH I'd guess from the condition that they've spent a fair bit on it.

[frenchy]

You may also want to check rental yield as a good indication value for money (even if obviously you intend to live in it).

Check similar houses rent * 12 / price * 100, this will give you gross yield (excluding voids and all that). If it is less than 5%, your house is overvalued, anything between 5-6% is not a great deal but better priced, above 6-7% either something is fishy or it has already been bought by a BTLer....

The above will not work very well if you are looking at buying something unusual (a castle) or remote.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

Same as all above posts but I would like to add that to me the size of the plot and the size of the house matter to me.

size of the house you can work out from floor plan and room sizes (usually two adjoining bedroom - upstairs - will give you the width and the adjoining living and dining room will give you the length). Alternatively, just email the EA and ask for a full copy of the EPC (*) - they all have pdf versions of it and will email back to you even if you haven't asked for a viewing.

For the plot size you can start with aerial photos but they are never square on. The better way to do it is to look for any planning application in the street and in there there will be an OS map (site plan) which will show neighboring plots, use the scale to then measure plot size. If plot has a weird shape use this link to work out sqm:

http://www.land.net/calc_four.php (area of any four-sided lot)

The reason I pay attention to plot size is that as we all know, building a house is cheap and you pay for land, so a 4 bed house (say 100m2) on a small plot is worth less to me than a 3 bed house (say 80m2) on a bigger plot. Similarily I would rather buy (and pay more) a 110m2 3bed than a 90m2 4 bed. I believe a lot of buyers would go for the 4 bed house without thinking, because it has 4 beds.... even it is smaller. Whenever I tell EA I look at prices per m2 rather than per bedroom they seem all stunned.

(*) beware, integral garage area is usually included, if the garage is attached but to the side rather than integral its area usually isn't included.

In the States it's much more usual to talk in terms of sq foot. 2000 sq foot apartment (or of course more usually condo).

[frenchy]

In the States it's much more usual to talk in terms of sq foot. 2000 sq foot apartment (or of course more usually condo).

In France as well, and then you simply work out whether a place is worth buying based on the price/m2; such price obviously vary between postcodes.

Such a system would have prevented rabbit hutches becoming smaller and smaller and it would have been obvious to anyone that 2 bed were turned into 3/4 bed for the same size.

[KingBingo]

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wow, I am a blind man compared to you.

And thanks everyone else for comments, I am amazed all the things I did not think to look at.

[matchmade]

You may also want to check rental yield as a good indication value for money (even if obviously you intend to live in it).

Check similar houses rent * 12 / price * 100, this will give you gross yield (excluding voids and all that). If it is less than 5%, your house is overvalued, anything between 5-6% is not a great deal but better priced, above 6-7% either something is fishy or it has already been bought by a BTLer....

The above will not work very well if you are looking at buying something unusual (a castle) or remote.

I would agree with this, however the gross returns on renting vary with the type of property - landlords get better 5-6% returns on small properties, but returns on detached 4-bed family houses typically drop to 4%, because there are much fewer people prepared to rent large properties, and those who could afford, say, a 6% rent generally already own. In my area (Reading), there are lots of landlords buying at the moment as BTL mortgages have improved, but they are all looking for second-hand 2-3 bed flats or houses being sold at distressed prices, because they are looking for returns of 7%+. So if you're a buyer of such a property, I'd say fair value is something that will rent for a gross return of 5-6%.

[Lepista]

Things to do when Buying a house

[matchmade]

In France as well, and then you simply work out whether a place is worth buying based on the price/m2; such price obviously vary between postcodes.

Such a system would have prevented rabbit hutches becoming smaller and smaller and it would have been obvious to anyone that 2 bed were turned into 3/4 bed for the same size.

I agree a system for measuring and advertising the square meterage of housing would help, both for rentals and sales, but do you really think British people are so unintelligent, that they don't notice somewhere is small, even though it's got more bedrooms?

The reason that new houses have got so small is not because builders are so clever and buyers too stupid to notice, but because the cost of land and getting planning has become incredibly expensive, and because government policies requires builders to give away 30-50% of their sites as "affordable" homes. Builders only make a profit on two-thirds or less of their sites, so the only way they can stay afloat is to cram their sites. This was something explicitly recognised by New Labour when it changed the density rules to allow much smaller plots at the same time as they introduced their utterly unfair affodable homes and S106 policies. I say unfair, becasue council housing (though run by housing associations now) and local infrastructure used to be paid for out of general taxation, because it was believed that everyone benefited from these facilities. Now, the housebuilding industry is staggering along under the weight of having to provide free housing for benefit layabouts and "key workers", plus new schools, roads, playgrounds and so on, usually miles away from the new housing, whilst existing homeowners and businesses don't have to pay a penny for all this free infrastructure.

[The Masked Tulip]

Noise is a big factor for me also - I tend to go and hang out around a property late at night.

Quality of GP surgery is also important. There is one area of Swansea that I quite like the houses but GP and nurse friends of mine have advised me to avoid as the GP surgery is considered not very progressive.

[Mrs Bear]

I agree a system for measuring and advertising the square meterage of housing would help, both for rentals and sales, but do you really think British people are so unintelligent, that they don't notice somewhere is small, even though it's got more bedrooms?

+1

I like to see floor plans with room sizes, and total sq m. If you get a FP, you usually get the sq m.

Certainly helps to weed them out.

Sq. m. alone isn't necessarily very helpful if there's an awkward layout.

There are still hopeless EAs who don't give floor plans as standard. Beats me why anyone would use them.

I also like to see garden aspect - also so often not standard though if not given it's often N. I always take a little compass when viewing - EAs hardly ever know.

Not to mention CT band and who it's payable to - on the border of two areas one or the other can make quite a difference.

[The Masked Tulip]

.

I also like to see garden aspect - also so often not standard though if not given it's often N. I always take a little compass when viewing - EAs hardly ever know.

I use Google Maps for this - Google maps are always North at the top of the map as you look at it.

If you don't trust this then there is http://googlecompass.com/

[Democorruptcy]

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Well done. The more things you can think of to look at, the more chance there is of finding something wrong with it, so you don't have to buy.

I use this for the flooding

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/floods/31650.aspx

Broadband

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/broadband_checker

Council tax

http://www.voa.gov.uk/cti/InitS.asp?lcn=0

I always look at the council's online planning applications. That saved me in 2006. When I told my solicitor what I had found and emailed him the links he described it as "world war 3 between the neighbours". I've always wondered if he would have found it himself. I was in the doghouse for finding it but she has since forgiven me.