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Exam Board To Penalise Private School Pupils

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/exam-board-to-penalise-private-school-pupils-2361429.html

A controversial plan to rank all A-level students according to the schools they attend – which would allow universities to discriminate against pupils from private schools – is unveiled today by Britain's biggest exam board.

The radical proposal would allow universities to offer places to students from disadvantaged homes who showed potential but had performed less well in exams than their peers at better schools.

The plan by the exam board AQA (Assessment and Qualifications Alliance) provoked a storm of argument among academics and independent schools. There were immediate fears that candidates will be penalised simply because they achieve good A-level results at a good school. Independent schools are also alarmed that the approach could discriminate against disadvantaged pupils to whom they have offered scholarships.

Private schools to stop using AQA?

Although the trouble is the poor can't afford University any more so it's pretty pointless.

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Private school all the way, then a last term swap into the worst comprehensive with private tuition and a stab-proof vest? :lol:

(People are excellent at exploiting rules.)

We have the system here. The entrance requirements are lower on a sliding scale depending on how long you've lived rurally.

Not the most tricky expoiting of the rules to de-circumvent.

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Private schools to stop using AQA?

Although the trouble is the poor can't afford University any more so it's pretty pointless.

Probably.

I wish they'd stop messing around like this and get back to simple common sense - universities should be taking the best candidates irrespective of their background. If that biases entrance towards a certain group then that's a problem for schools, and they need to drag the others up.

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Although the trouble is the poor can't afford University any more so it's pretty pointless.

..nobody has to repay until they earn enough to do so...level playing field.... :rolleyes:

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Probably.

I wish they'd stop messing around like this and get back to simple common sense - universities should be taking the best candidates irrespective of their background. If that biases entrance towards a certain group then that's a problem for schools, and they need to drag the others up.

Surely to see who the best candidate is you have to look into their background?

If I attend the best private school in the country and am provided with extensive 1 on 1 tuition with with world leading experts and get 9 straight A's is that a better achievement than someone raised in a succession of care homes, attending the worst school in the country getting 8 A's and a B?

I'd say the other person showed far more academic potential by almost matching my achievements with a fraction of my advantages.

Edited by Timak

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So the idea now is to get your kids into the worst school you can find and then pay for private tuition outside school.

For a lot less money than private schooling would cost you could guarantee a place at any university you want and your child doesn't even need to be particularly acedemic.

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Why are our state schools crap? In some countries (eg Switzerland) the state schools are so good there is no private sector (other than for foreigners.)

They aren't all bad - for example my local non-selective 6th form college in Cambridge (with a third of the students eligible for EMA) manages to churn out phenomenal exam results and provides more Oxbridge students than any other school in the country.

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They aren't all bad - for example my local non-selective 6th form college in Cambridge (with a third of the students eligible for EMA) manages to churn out phenomenal exam results and provides more Oxbridge students than any other school in the country.

could it be passively selective in having a relatively socially exclusive catchment area?

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Surely to see who the best candidate is you have to look into their background?

If I attend the best private school in the country and am provided with extensive 1 on 1 tuition with with world leading experts and get 9 straight A's is that a better achievement than someone raised in a succession of care homes, attending the worst school in the country getting 8 A's and a B?

I'd say the other person showed far more academic potential by almost matching my achievements with a fraction of my advantages.

definitely; this is how many universities take students anyway

every university lecturer i have met have stories of a straight As student from a good school who was thick

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..nobody has to repay until they earn enough to do so...level playing field.... :rolleyes:

Your first point is fact, your second is opinion. I think your opinion is way off target.

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Why are our state schools crap? In some countries (eg Switzerland) the state schools are so good there is no private sector (other than for foreigners.)

I've no idea where you got that idea, but for Geneva at least, you couldn't be more inaccurate.

Remember that in Switzerland cantons can differ almost as much as one country to another.

Geneva state education is very poor quality to age 16, after that it's good. The private sector is expensive but generally high quality.

They are starting to wake up a bit, but they're way behind the curve. It's especially annoying because their resources are brilliant, they have money - the problem is politics.

Other cantons are generally better, the German-speaking cantons have less poncey lefties(as opposed to practical lefties) than the French-speaking cantons.

Did you confuse Switzerland with Finland?

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could it be passively selective in having a relatively socially exclusive catchment area?

Probably, there are several 6th form colleges to choose between and the more "academic" pupils tend to cluster at Hills Road albeit anyone can apply and hardly anyone is turned down.

They must be doing something right though. I went to a grammar school with 100 6th form pupils where we had an average of 19 UCAS points per pupil(BBC to BCC at A-level) when in the same year Hills Road averaged 28 UCAS points with 1000 pupils (almost straight A's).

I don't really know what that proves - whether selective schooling is pointless (the comp kids did just as well in GCSEs in much worse schools) or whether treating the 6th form as a separate entity to school focuses the mind more.

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Your first point is fact, your second is opinion. I think your opinion is way off target.

...no ..we all play with the hand dealt ...some treat adversity as the target ...others crumble crying ..foul....and this board is about opinions ....if you don't like it....move on... :rolleyes:

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...no ..we all play with the hand dealt ...some treat adversity as the target ...others crumble crying ..foul....and this board is about opinions ....if you don't like it....move on... :rolleyes:

That's all very well, but it doesn't make your opinion less wrong.

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That's all very well, but it doesn't make your opinion less wrong.

...or less right ...."ye of plenty tunnel vision"...an opinion is an opinion...who are you ...?....some small town dictator...?.... :rolleyes:

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...or less right ...."ye of plenty tunnel vision"...an opinion is an opinion...who are you ...?....some small town dictator...?.... :rolleyes:

Nope, just someone expressing a different opinion to you. It is allowed.

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I've no idea where you got that idea, but for Geneva at least, you couldn't be more inaccurate.

Remember that in Switzerland cantons can differ almost as much as one country to another.

Geneva state education is very poor quality to age 16, after that it's good. The private sector is expensive but generally high quality.

They are starting to wake up a bit, but they're way behind the curve. It's especially annoying because their resources are brilliant, they have money - the problem is politics.

Other cantons are generally better, the German-speaking cantons have less poncey lefties(as opposed to practical lefties) than the French-speaking cantons.

Did you confuse Switzerland with Finland?

I attended College Voltaire in Geneva for one year and after that I moved to an English comprehensive school in the Midlands. The difference was stark. Swiss public education is head and shoulders above the UK. I have tried both. I speak from experience.

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Surely to see who the best candidate is you have to look into their background?

If I attend the best private school in the country and am provided with extensive 1 on 1 tuition with with world leading experts and get 9 straight A's is that a better achievement than someone raised in a succession of care homes, attending the worst school in the country getting 8 A's and a B?

I'd say the other person showed far more academic potential by almost matching my achievements with a fraction of my advantages.

I see where you're coming from, and it's why universities give interviews instead of simply going on exam results, and why a student who's not doing quite as well but shows signs of more natural aptitude might get a lower offer. That, IMO, isn't the same as penalising private school pupils. Better education will on average give pupils who are more able and likely to do well at university - if it didn't then all education would be equal which unfortunately it isn't and never will be.

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I attended College Voltaire in Geneva for one year and after that I moved to an English comprehensive school in the Midlands. The difference was stark. Swiss public education is head and shoulders above the UK. I have tried both. I speak from experience.

Yes, College Voltaire is fine even now, you go there at 15 or 16, the standards are quite high.

If you read my post I criticise the Genevan state education up to age 16, I have two stepdaughters who have been through the Cycles d'Orientation(age 11-12 to 15-16), and they're sh1te.(Not that either of the girls are rocket scientists, but that's beside the point) A college teacher I was talking to the other day referred disparagingly to the Cycles as "nurseries".

Trust me, I was helping them with their homework, it was stuff I studied 3 years before them on most occasions(I'm UK state-school educated, in the 70s).

To give you an idea of how sh1te they are, the jump from Cycles d'Orientation to Colleges like College Voltaire is now so great that 60-70% of pupils leaving Cycles d'Orientation fail their first year at College and have to repeat it.

In other cantons the situation is less dire.

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Yes, College Voltaire is fine even now, you go there at 15 or 16, the standards are quite high.

If you read my post I criticise the Genevan state education up to age 16, I have two stepdaughters who have been through the Cycles d'Orientation(age 11-12 to 15-16), and they're sh1te.(Not that either of the girls are rocket scientists, but that's beside the point) A college teacher I was talking to the other day referred disparagingly to the Cycles as "nurseries".

Trust me, I was helping them with their homework, it was stuff I studied 3 years before them on most occasions(I'm UK state-school educated, in the 70s).

To give you an idea of how sh1te they are, the jump from Cycles d'Orientation to Colleges like College Voltaire is now so great that 60-70% of pupils leaving Cycles d'Orientation fail their first year at College and have to repeat it.

In other cantons the situation is less dire.

Things may have changed since my day - I was there in the 1970s. I also attended a Cycle d'O - Golette in Meyrin - not exactly a posh area and the standard seemed pretty high to me, far higher than an English comp. However I'm pretty sure there wasn't a 60-70% failure rate in the 1st year of college, perhaps 5% if that. You had to be "promu" out of one of the top streams to get to a college. (I wanted Rousseau but the central planners said no!) So things may have changed.

However I still regard the Swiss system as better in many ways...

  • Continuous assessment

  • Streaming

  • Weak school identity

Having a weak school identity may seem counter-intuitive, but in the UK system school identity is strong so "getting to a good school" is the Holy Grail. In Switzerland the teachers are zipping all over the place anyway, which building they teach you in is less important. Schools are more like office buildings, just a place with facilities, less of an identity.

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Why are our state schools crap?

Becuase they exist to provide a pay and pensions package for teachers plus other members of the educational establishment (LEA's etc). So long as they can keep drawing their comfortable salaries, long holidays and huge pension rights without any expectation of actually being held responsible for anything then from that point of view the schools are brilliant.

Teaching the kids? Who cares? :(

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Things may have changed since my day - I was there in the 1970s. I also attended a Cycle d'O - Golette in Meyrin - not exactly a posh area and the standard seemed pretty high to me, far higher than an English comp. However I'm pretty sure there wasn't a 60-70% failure rate in the 1st year of college, perhaps 5% if that. You had to be "promu" out of one of the top streams to get to a college. (I wanted Rousseau but the central planners said no!) So things may have changed.

However I still regard the Swiss system as better in many ways...

  • Continuous assessment

  • Streaming

  • Weak school identity

Having a weak school identity may seem counter-intuitive, but in the UK system school identity is strong so "getting to a good school" is the Holy Grail. In Switzerland the teachers are zipping all over the place anyway, which building they teach you in is less important. Schools are more like office buildings, just a place with facilities, less of an identity.

Yep, I agree with all of that. However standards have slipped dramatically - the frustrating thing is that it's all there in terms of the infrastructure, there's so much money here, but they just demand so little of the pupils and teach them baby stuff. They're making a start now - no more Wednesdays off, slightly more demanding results for promotion to next year, but they've let things go so far it's a long way back.

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..nobody has to repay until they earn enough to do so...level playing field.... :rolleyes:

My two sons are currently at Uni but my daughter will not be going due to the level of debt

You need AT LEAST 6k a year for living costs + 9k tuition = 15K a year

A masters degree would cost 4*15 = 60K

And the interest rules are draconian - something like inflation + 4% I think

Given that a third of recent graduates are now unemployed this seems a poor deal.

Fortunately she really didn't want to go anyway, otherwise I would have been devastated.

Of course the wealthy will pay the fees up front so will avoid interest charges which double/treble the actual cost - so the rich pay less.

Labour, who introduced these fees in England and commissioned the report that recommended the new regime,

and the Lib Dems who promised to abolish fees but forced this scheme through because it is really a 'graduate tax' which it isn't

Can burn in Hell as far as I am concerned.

:angry:

Edited by Game_Over

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  • 343 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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