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Youngsters Put Off Work By 'crap' Jobs, Says Cipd

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I think I probably misunderstood your original point then.

The fix is to lower the cost of living by ending rentierism. This would make work pay, and allow benefits to be lowered.

Bingo.

What a lot of (ar5eholes) want is for benefits to be cut while the rentierism is still sky high, basically turning the economically bottom 5th of the nation into instant forelock tugging slaves.

(Or more likely a massive rioting mob.)

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Why should the state provide for you? There is no such thing as government money it is ours and I can think of a better use for it than paying you benefits because you perceive you are worth more which if I am reading your post right obviously not otherwise you wouldn't be in a shitty job.

And anyway if the state fails how is it going to pay you to do F*** all? You don't work for the state you work for any number of reasons pride, to create a better life, self fulfilment and so forth.

Funny how other cultures Indian, Greek, Asian etc have no problems with shelter oh yes I forgot it's the Anglo Saxon way, turn ourselves into a race of dysfunctional partners with a disdain for traditional family values and any firm of moral code, kids with new mums and dads every five years and take the p**** out of our traditional religions and guess what?

You get a load of whining self pitying, entitlement goons who blame the state. Something has failed but it's not the state. You could change it but as they say in the forces you have LMF so you just give up.

Its not about the state providing for you , its about the state providing a playing field whereby people can work and provide for themselves. THE STATE HAS FAILED ON THIS LEVEL.

Not sure about the Greeks but the others you mention have many homeless people and many living in abject poverty. Again the disdain for the traditional family has much of its routes in the failure of GOVERNMENT. Sucsessive govenments have underminded the core family and the way it functions via tax , benefits , housing and incentives that have been slowley withdrawn from the traditional mode.

" something has failed but it's not the state "

I think it is they failed to curb the unsustainable credit bubble that led to HPI, they failed to curb the Banks casino investments , when this went wrong they failed to find an alternative instead they chose to fund the banks with tax payers money that has not yet been earn't while the bankers have carried on in their corrupt ways. STATE FAILUER .

How is anyone able to change it when the failed state is hell bent on carring on with it ?

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Bingo.

What a lot of (ar5eholes) want is for benefits to be cut while the rentierism is still sky high, basically turning the economically bottom 5th of the nation into instant forelock tugging slaves.

(Or more likely a massive rioting mob.)

Mostly useful idiots rather than arseholes.

People have been carefully trained to treat certain taxes and benefits as if they were market costs and legitimate profits.

Even the language has been changed to hide the fact that landlords are the government and rents are a tax.

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I'd like to thank everyone for the ad hominem attacks. There are too many to do it personally.

Recently one of my team wanted to hire some UK nationals to work in the warehouse. He wanted some people he could develop into supervisors that would be able to write reports etc. He brought them in at the entry level op rate (6.46ph). 40 + hours per week and they would progress to £24K salary within 6 months. None of them lasted 72 hours.

Regular hours, good pay & conditions, and positive discrimination. What more do I have to offer?

Is this work in Yorkshire?

If so, message me the details, I can start ASAP.

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UK employers have been saying UK employees are rubbish for decades, even before the dumbing down.

Crikey now that they've all got degrees and got to have a degree for the basic jobs they're still saying they're rubbish.

No doubt inexperienced UK youngsters have shortcomings but the employers are just displaying outright greed.

Ok be as greedy as they like but it's not right to blame the UK young for not meeting the greed targets.

Edited by billybong

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UK employers have been saying UK employees are rubbish for decades, even before the dumbing down.

Crikey now that they've all got degrees and got to have a degree for the basic jobs they're still saying they're rubbish.

No doubt inexperienced UK youngsters have shortcomings but the employers are just displaying outright greed.

Ok be as greedy as they like but it's not right to blame the UK young for not meeting the greed targets.

..or they say this because they want to justify in paying the bottom rate for their employees, and then get the taxpayer to subsidise their wages... <_<

Edited by Dave Beans

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Not everyone can be a MD....not everyone is capable of being a MD.

I don't think the guy cares, it's a case of "I'm alright Jack". Sadly this guys attitude is pretty prevalent in our society and most around the world. Many of the people on this forum who support youngsters strife would very quickly not give a shit about them if their own situations also improved to the level of John The Pessimist.

Bunch of hypocrits on this forum. John The Pessimist shouldn't be complaining about high house prices while at the same time supporting the enslavement of those who are not as well off as himself. Since in a just and fair society neither would be the case.

When I'm more successful this John guy will be scrubbing my toilets, but I won't look down on him or tell him to put up with it because I think everyone deserves a chance at a life in this day and age with the technology available.

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As I have already said - why should employers offer high salaries due to a ridiculous credit/housing bubble that has occured ?

Yep I hate idiots who point fingers at the wrong people. They are just hurting the cause not helping it. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that it's living costs- mainly rent and tax which need to be lower rather than salaries being higher. This point has been making a million times on this forum but some people still aren't hooking onto it.

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Around 20% of UK jobs are now of this type.

If we exclude London I would say more than half the people under 25 are on minimum wage. Trying to get some figures for this. Living at home with parents is not always an option, I've met people who get charged market rate by their parents, so just treated like a cash machine :blink:

And that was in South West England where rent is crazy stupid like 100 pounds/ month for a bedroom in a house. Being on minimum wage isn't too bad if you have social housing or you live up north where rent is cheap, otherwise if you are down South and not in that situation you are a virtual slave.

Problem with being up north is there's very few jobs so you may not even find one.

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therefore it is very difficult to know what to get skilled up in that will, by the time your skillset is established (3 to 5 years) still be paying well; this must be (is) very disillusioning

Says you. I know exactly how I am going to get from my current job to small time business, to big time business. I've even developed a plan which involves my girlfriend working and me staying at home working on the business so I can succeed faster.

I am the ultimate opposite of the slave career man in my thought process and plans. The problem with you guys on this forum is you don't think outside of the box. I am a logical thinker but have a horrible memory, I did badly in education but I can think my way to success by applying my skills in a practical manner.

If you want me to give you a hint as to why I'm so confident. Automation skills, outsourcing potential and I already have much more free time than your average full-time job man. Even so I think I can do much better.

I'm only 24 but my "career" right now is much better than any full-time job you can imagine as I only work 16 hours/ week but if I wanted I could save 700 pounds/ month by spending very little as I get a free apartment etc. My friend in Britain is only 19 yet is already earning 2000 pounds/ month through a mix of jobs and 'other' sources, but he's waiting on me to make him much more successful because he sees my potential.

I have a friend in the industry who is already making $10k/ month because he has the marketing skills but he doesn't have the IT skills to go with it. With automation and outsourcing you can leverage your skills 100 fold, the problem I am having right now is when I finish work I'm too tired to work more than one or two hours/ day on my own stuff hence my plan for the girlfriend to help support me.

Why am I telling you guys all this? Because I'm fed up of your circular repetitive debates which have been circling and repeating on a daily basis for years. If you all knew what I knew, believed what I did you wouldn't be working 40 hours/ week saving up for a pile of bricks. Capital has been winning the capital vs labour game for decades now and the only way to beat capital is automation and outsourcing.

Some members of this forum often mention the points of automation and outsourcing but as someone who has these skills I can tell you they are much more powerful than you can imagine. And once I have the time and energy to put them into practice I will prove that to the world.

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Says you. I know exactly how I am going to get from my current job to small time business, to big time business. I've even developed a plan which involves my girlfriend working and me staying at home working on the business so I can succeed faster.

I am the ultimate opposite of the slave career man in my thought process and plans. The problem with you guys on this forum is you don't think outside of the box. I am a logical thinker but have a horrible memory, I did badly in education but I can think my way to success by applying my skills in a practical manner.

If you want me to give you a hint as to why I'm so confident. Automation skills, outsourcing potential and I already have much more free time than your average full-time job man. Even so I think I can do much better.

I'm only 24 but my "career" right now is much better than any full-time job you can imagine as I only work 16 hours/ week but if I wanted I could save 700 pounds/ month by spending very little as I get a free apartment etc. My friend in Britain is only 19 yet is already earning 2000 pounds/ month through a mix of jobs and 'other' sources, but he's waiting on me to make him much more successful because he sees my potential.

I have a friend in the industry who is already making $10k/ month because he has the marketing skills but he doesn't have the IT skills to go with it. With automation and outsourcing you can leverage your skills 100 fold, the problem I am having right now is when I finish work I'm too tired to work more than one or two hours/ day on my own stuff hence my plan for the girlfriend to help support me.

Why am I telling you guys all this? Because I'm fed up of your circular repetitive debates which have been circling and repeating on a daily basis for years. If you all knew what I knew, believed what I did you wouldn't be working 40 hours/ week saving up for a pile of bricks. Capital has been winning the capital vs labour game for decades now and the only way to beat capital is automation and outsourcing.

Some members of this forum often mention the points of automation and outsourcing but as someone who has these skills I can tell you they are much more powerful than you can imagine. And once I have the time and energy to put them into practice I will prove that to the world.

Exactly the same as the "just become a manager" argument.

Not everyone can take your approach.

"I have found a way through this massive sack of shit" is not the same as the sack of shit actually being rainbows and lollipops. Quite possibly the worst approach to take when dealing with large scale social problems is to find someone who is doing alright in them and then extrapolate their behaviour to everyone else.

"We are all in Buchenwald but it's ok I am the commandant" is in no way a valid critque or argument or even a solution that can work for more than a tiny percentage. I understand why people put them forward, which is half "I'm alright jack" and half "God I am awesome." But if you look at how you present the argument, you might notice some small inconsistencies - everyone who advances these sorts of arguments winds up saying "I am ace, me" while also saying other people have no imagination and drive because it's so easy.

If it's easy, you ain't ace, and if you are ace, it ain't easy.

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But it is not all roses around the door.

For them that come here and those already here.

There is only x amount of jobs , x amount of housing , x amount of funding for NHS and schools. The more that come means x amount of people lose out . That includes those already here and those coming . Not everyone that has come to this so called land of opportunity has made it. Many have met the same problems that those here are meeting due to to many coming .

And before anyone gets the race card out , I have heard many immigrants from all races who have come here and been here for years saying that there is now to much immigration.

That is a very good point.....the people that are affected the most by immigration or low pay are the ones next up in the feeding line, the ones whos wages, homes and jobs, are in direct competition with each other, up close and personal,the previous tranche of immigrants who came to a better life but now find they are finding it very hard to progress further...they are the ones now being priced out.

Generally the main people who are benefiting from poor pay and a frozen career ladders are the wealthy who make their money off the backs of others, be it the large corporates or the guy who wants the cheap extension to increase the price of his property....the rich do not live with the problems they exploit the problems...they can afford to educate their own children to be like them, if they are intelligent their life is made for them, if they are not intelligent it is 'who you know not what you know' they will succeed.......only the very savvy, passionate, tenacious, determined, highly energised, confident with a focused purpose and good people skills will get what they want, without the backing of power and background family money. ;)

Edited by winkie

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Says you. I know exactly how I am going to get from my current job to small time business, to big time business. I've even developed a plan which involves my girlfriend working and me staying at home working on the business so I can succeed faster.

I am the ultimate opposite of the slave career man in my thought process and plans. The problem with you guys on this forum is you don't think outside of the box. I am a logical thinker but have a horrible memory, I did badly in education but I can think my way to success by applying my skills in a practical manner.

If you want me to give you a hint as to why I'm so confident. Automation skills, outsourcing potential and I already have much more free time than your average full-time job man. Even so I think I can do much better.

I'm only 24 but my "career" right now is much better than any full-time job you can imagine as I only work 16 hours/ week but if I wanted I could save 700 pounds/ month by spending very little as I get a free apartment etc. My friend in Britain is only 19 yet is already earning 2000 pounds/ month through a mix of jobs and 'other' sources, but he's waiting on me to make him much more successful because he sees my potential.

I have a friend in the industry who is already making $10k/ month because he has the marketing skills but he doesn't have the IT skills to go with it. With automation and outsourcing you can leverage your skills 100 fold, the problem I am having right now is when I finish work I'm too tired to work more than one or two hours/ day on my own stuff hence my plan for the girlfriend to help support me.

Why am I telling you guys all this? Because I'm fed up of your circular repetitive debates which have been circling and repeating on a daily basis for years. If you all knew what I knew, believed what I did you wouldn't be working 40 hours/ week saving up for a pile of bricks. Capital has been winning the capital vs labour game for decades now and the only way to beat capital is automation and outsourcing.

Some members of this forum often mention the points of automation and outsourcing but as someone who has these skills I can tell you they are much more powerful than you can imagine. And once I have the time and energy to put them into practice I will prove that to the world.

Exactly the same as the "just become a manager" argument.

Not everyone can take your approach.

"I have found a way through this massive sack of shit" is not the same as the sack of shit actually being rainbows and lollipops. Quite possibly the worst approach to take when dealing with large scale social problems is to find someone who is doing alright in them and then extrapolate their behaviour to everyone else.

"We are all in Buchenwald but it's ok I am the commandant" is in no way a valid critque or argument or even a solution that can work for more than a tiny percentage. I understand why people put them forward, which is half "I'm alright jack" and half "God I am awesome." But if you look at how you present the argument, you might notice some small inconsistencies - everyone who advances these sorts of arguments winds up saying "I am ace, me" while also saying other people have no imagination and drive because it's so easy.

If it's easy, you ain't ace, and if you are ace, it ain't easy.

Thanks for that Injin. I hate that attitude 'just do what Bill Gates does' etc... Love the Logic :)

Saberu you come across as running a ponzi scheme or something.

Although without sitting on the fence - I/we could do with some optimism or we will miss the opportunities that do appear around us.

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If it's easy, you ain't ace, and if you are ace, it ain't easy.

I'm not ace or I would have been successful already, I'm not even that hardworking or I would have been easily able to work my job and do my business in my spare time. I'm not even successful yet but at least I'm having a go, and the skills needed to be successful in this field can all be learned from the internet and through experience.

I also hate the "I'm alright Jack" attitude but that wasn't the position I was taking. I am coming from the viewpoint that anyone can try and have a go like I am doing.

If you are neither having a go, trying to revolt against government or gaming the system somehow then you are just being a slave to the system. I'm choosing the having a go option otherwise I would have chosen the gaming the system option as I don't like my odds of surviving in a revolution.

Saberu you come across as running a ponzi scheme or something.

I'm not, I hate pyramid schemes they are evil and remember when my father was caught up in one and lost a lot of money. I once spoke to someone online that was running a ponzi scheme and they were a psychopathic liar to the point where I believed that they had persuaded themselves they were not commiting fraud and that it was an honest business.

Edited by Saberu

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You are assuming that taking free stuff from those not working will arrive with lower taxes.

Which is never going to happen, ever.

Taxes only go up.

+1

When will this sink in?!?

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We're considered locally (Newham) to be one of the best employers in the area.

Considering most of your warehouse staff are immigrants and the job pays over minimum wage and that your British staff didn't last 72 hours I'm willing to bet you work your immigrant staff to death... which they are happy with as they probably sleep 4 to a room and save a lot of money to eventually take home whereas British people expect to have enough energy to enjoy their lives in evenings and weekends.

Let's see YOU perform the warehouse job you are making the immigrants do at their pace for a full 12 months on the same pay before you criticize.

What line of business are you in/ what do you sell? I'll happily consider automating it and putting you out of business so I can go tell you to suck it. Thanks.

Edited by Saberu

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+1

When will this sink in?!?

Quite.....they give it back to you in one hand then take that and a bit more from the other hand....they call it a 'tax cut'....but conveniently only tell you half the story...most believe it, until they count what is left in their purse and wonder what they spent it all on. ;)

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Says you. I know exactly how I am going to get from my current job to small time business, to big time business. I've even developed a plan which involves my girlfriend working and me staying at home working on the business so I can succeed faster.

I am the ultimate opposite of the slave career man in my thought process and plans. The problem with you guys on this forum is you don't think outside of the box. I am a logical thinker but have a horrible memory, I did badly in education but I can think my way to success by applying my skills in a practical manner.

If you want me to give you a hint as to why I'm so confident. Automation skills, outsourcing potential and I already have much more free time than your average full-time job man. Even so I think I can do much better.

I'm only 24 but my "career" right now is much better than any full-time job you can imagine as I only work 16 hours/ week but if I wanted I could save 700 pounds/ month by spending very little as I get a free apartment etc. My friend in Britain is only 19 yet is already earning 2000 pounds/ month through a mix of jobs and 'other' sources, but he's waiting on me to make him much more successful because he sees my potential.

I have a friend in the industry who is already making $10k/ month because he has the marketing skills but he doesn't have the IT skills to go with it. With automation and outsourcing you can leverage your skills 100 fold, the problem I am having right now is when I finish work I'm too tired to work more than one or two hours/ day on my own stuff hence my plan for the girlfriend to help support me.

Why am I telling you guys all this? Because I'm fed up of your circular repetitive debates which have been circling and repeating on a daily basis for years. If you all knew what I knew, believed what I did you wouldn't be working 40 hours/ week saving up for a pile of bricks. Capital has been winning the capital vs labour game for decades now and the only way to beat capital is automation and outsourcing.

Some members of this forum often mention the points of automation and outsourcing but as someone who has these skills I can tell you they are much more powerful than you can imagine. And once I have the time and energy to put them into practice I will prove that to the world.

Oh dear

another self-aggrandising fantasist

Pray tell, are you going to make this fortune/take over the world before or after you've gorged your 18 year old girl friend with food so she grows bigger knockers and then slim her down into WAG material or afterwards?

Changed my mind anyway. I am going to help her gain weight for the next couple of years because she is only 18 and her breasts will still be growing. If she puts on a lot of weight and massages her breasts regularly I think she will grow much bigger then by the time she reaches 20 they will be a nice size and she can start losing weight to get back to a natural size then tone up :)

I already had a feeling breast size had some relationship with putting on weight since a lot of fatter girls usually have bigger breasts but after looking on the internet I managed to confirm this.

tw@t <_<

There's an code monkey/computer/AI element on this forum who seem to think they are the future masters of the universe - boy are you in for a shock

Look, things may work for you or they may not - please come back and tell us your world view if they do not - but thinking that future success is solely down to oneself is a sure sign of immaturity or lack of experience - and will lead to disappointment and disillusion

Maybe you can feed up your "girl friend" on humble pie when it doesn't work out

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Oh dear

another self-aggrandising fantasist

Pray tell, are you going to make this fortune/take over the world before or after you've gorged your 18 year old girl friend with food so she grows bigger knockers and then slim her down into WAG material or afterwards?

tw@t <_<

There's an code monkey/computer/AI element on this forum who seem to think they are the future masters of the universe - boy are you in for a shock

Look, things may work for you or they may not - please come back and tell us your world view if they do not - but thinking that future success is solely down to oneself is a sure sign of immaturity or lack of experience - and will lead to disappointment and disillusion

Maybe you can feed up your "girl friend" on humble pie when it doesn't work out

That was quite funny. I did try and say how you came over saberu but hey ho.

Although I take exception to the AI and computer bit KO J mainly because I have a degree in AI. Thats it I am going to build a neural network to take over the world. and next week........ :)

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Saberu has it partly right I feel (appallingly expressed though - the tactlessness of youth perhaps?).

If you are internet savvy (and I don't mean only capable of posting updates to Facebook) - in some ways it's easier than ever make a decent living from your own venture in your spare time with few start up costs. Software, outsourcing and automation has removed a lot of barriers to entry. And you have a global marketplace to play in. It's easier than it ever was to take an idea and make a business from it. Fail. Try again. Eventually (or not) succeed.

And you can repeat it again and again.

The downside is because it's relatively easy - the competition is great and winner takes nearly all. Expect to see any great idea that works - get copied many times over (and that's before the Indians and Chinese have really worked it out the same - which they will). That said even a tiny fraction of a crowded market might still be enough.

But it is also something like a ponzi scheme - we can't all make a living selling virtual crap to each other while we sleep. Plenty of gold (and gold miners) still to be mined though.

Eventually though, big business is going to take over. Take a look at content farmers like Demand Media for example. They are trying to make sure they have a piece of targeted content for as many different profitable keyphrases as possible. It's hard to see the little guy who produces a niche site which makes a bit on the side from advertising/affiliate income is going to survive that kind of competition in the long term.

Enjoy it while it lasts - but be mindful that you'll either need to keep moving quickly or retire earlier than you might have thought.

Lastly, not everyone has an interest in or aptitute for making a living in this way.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat

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Oh dear

another self-aggrandising fantasist

Pray tell, are you going to make this fortune/take over the world before or after you've gorged your 18 year old girl friend with food so she grows bigger knockers and then slim her down into WAG material or afterwards?

tw@t <_<

There's an code monkey/computer/AI element on this forum who seem to think they are the future masters of the universe - boy are you in for a shock

Look, things may work for you or they may not - please come back and tell us your world view if they do not - but thinking that future success is solely down to oneself is a sure sign of immaturity or lack of experience - and will lead to disappointment and disillusion

Maybe you can feed up your "girl friend" on humble pie when it doesn't work out

bigboobdating.com?!

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I can understand the reluctance to work at the minimum wage end. It's OK if you have free accomdation but apart from that I don't see how people can have a reasonable life with housing costs no matter how hard many work (sure a few progress up the career ladder, but you shouldn't have to wait a decade before you can afford to buy a place). A few beers with your mates at the weekend, a holiday a year, an OK place to live (not perfect, but not a complete sh!t hole either), shouldn't be much to ask for from anyone giving 40 hours of their life a week.

Executive pay and certain cartel professionals (lawyers, accountants, top bankers, insurance) pay has increased way ahead of everyone elses wages for over a decade, they skim everything these days. Someone on this thread summed it up very succiently with the statement about the average worker not drawing the distinction on their pay packet being robbed by the Government or the bosses above them, very ture.

The UK is supposed to be one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and in many ways it is, but it seems more and more people are falling into poverty in this wealthy country, so you can only assume a few people at the top end are getting wealthier and wealthier. Hard and skilled work should always be rewarded, but after they've bought their third sports car does buying another one really make their life happier? Some maybe do it through greed, but perhaps there is a bigger issue in the top wanting to hoard as much wealth as possible?

The distinction of age and wage is also important. A £40,000 salary is a lot of money whoever you are, but it buys a whole lot less for someone in their late 20's early 30's nowadays then it does for someone in their 50's (assuming they didn't MEW till the chickens came home to roost) due to HPI. So sad seeing even talented young people working hard, earning good money, and still struggling to afford anything above an average lifestyle and putting off having children without BoMaD assistance. Is this really the society we want?

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Says you. I know exactly how I am going to get from my current job to small time business, to big time business. I've even developed a plan which involves my girlfriend working and me staying at home working on the business so I can succeed faster.

oh I know what I am doing, i have a plan too, and I will be fine

however, i was saying that it is difficult in the general case for the young

I have empathy

you do not, apparently

and yes i agree with you about capital over labour

now get over youself

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oh I know what I am doing, i have a plan too, and I will be fine

I had a plan, but the dotcom bust pi$$ed all over it.

Plan two involved having to retrain from scratch in my late twenties (financials), and guess what happened then.....

The perils of riding bubbles. :)

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Eventually though, big business is going to take over. Take a look at content farmers like Demand Media for example. They are trying to make sure they have a piece of targeted content for as many different profitable keyphrases as possible. It's hard to see the little guy who produces a niche site which makes a bit on the side from advertising/affiliate income is going to survive that kind of competition in the long term.

Online marketing is the last market left in the world where skills are more important than capital. Once you get big enough / important enough to be manually reviewed by the big G you will already be at the point where you can afford to buy links and naturallify your previously artificial link empire.

Or what some people do is just expand into many different niches (which is why affiliate is so popular) then they don't get 'big' enough to be reviewed.

Natural links make up a very small percentage of the overall algorithm, I would guess right now it's half bought half generated.

By the way your idea to launch a unique free service online is by far not the best way to get successful, join an existing market and you are guaranteed to make money. I am very different to most IM types though, I actually plan to add value rather than rip people off with scammy affiliate products. Though you can't blame em for wanting the quick money.

I have fully automated my linkbuilding process, StainlessSteelCat if you want to compete in IM I suggest you attempt to do the same or you will be putting in hours everyday the manual way.

Edited by Saberu

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  • 294 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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