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Youngsters Put Off Work By 'crap' Jobs, Says Cipd

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As I have already said - why should employers offer high salaries due to a ridiculous credit/housing bubble that has occured ? Unless they are directly involved (Banks or builders) then wouldn't this mean they are paying for the mistakes and greed of others ?

Which is something most reading this site are wholeheartedly against....

If you owned a business would you offer your workers higher salaries due to the ridiculous inflated housing costs in this country ? No - I didn't think so. You would think that was a ridiculous and very unfair thing to ask....

one way or the other you'll end up bankrupt

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one way or the other you'll end up bankrupt

i have / had a business that paid quite well, but im no longer interested in it as even though its financially viable, theres no real physical return. it just eats my life. ive given up on it really. selling it hopefully. i cant be bothered. whats the point of it ?

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As I have already said - why should employers offer high salaries due to a ridiculous credit/housing bubble that has occured ? Unless they are directly involved (Banks or builders) then wouldn't this mean they are paying for the mistakes and greed of others ?

Which is something most reading this site are wholeheartedly against....

If you owned a business would you offer your workers higher salaries due to the ridiculous inflated housing costs in this country ? No - I didn't think so. You would think that was a ridiculous and very unfair thing to ask....

It is very true. Employers want to make as much money as possible out of every employee. They will offer a low a salary as they can in order to achieve that objective. The reason some salaries are so good is the threat of good people going elsewhere, which ends up costing the company more money than they save, so they will pay more to reduce the risk of that happening. If they are not worried if you leave, your salary will be low.

The notion that some suggest, that you should be paid according to your need, is ludicrous. If private sector companies did that then they would go bust in double quick time.

CCC, why is it, do you think, that so many people seem to look at things from the point of view of what people need, rather than looking at it and measuring how much people are actually producing? Is socialism that deeply ingrained?

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Whilst clearly there are a lot of companies taking the mick. There are also a lot that pay their staff well, give them lots of excellent benefits - and treat them decently. I don't think pretending these do not exist makes any sense. They do. And they are all over the place.

High housing costs are - as others have pointed out - the real issue here. What do we want ? Employers to pay more due to the ridiculous property bubble that has occured in this country ?

You don't seem to get that there has been a fundamental change in the job types available and their conditions over the past 20 years, as jobs have become deskilled and the employment pyramid has flattened. It used to be that the majority of work had a progression tree, which provided a massive incentive for those starting out. And those that didnt still had regular wage rises in line with time served so even if you didnt progress you could eventually afford a home, family, holidays, pensions, etc. I was raised in exactly one of those types of families.

Nowadays we have what people term 'crap jobs' and its not really because of an entitlement culture (though this does play a minor part) but because all those things that jobs at that level eventually enabled through time served - a home, family, holidays, pensions - no longer are possible. They are instead short-term part time contacts which continually cycle people through and are a 'dead end' to those taking them. Around 20% of UK jobs are now of this type. Studies have shown that of those in these types of jobs ~80% are still doing 'dead end' jobs five and ten years later. Can't find them now, but i posted links to them here in a discussion 2-3 months ago.

But all this should not be surprising given the rate at which inequality has increased in the UK. In 1970 the bottom 50% took 16% of GDP home as wages, now its 12% of GDP. That loss of relative income has to come from somewhere, and those which have the weakest bargaining position in our labour force, those discussed above, have lost the most.

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How can private sector employers do that? They are competing against those that can get the same labour at a much cheaper price. If they pay too much, they will go bust. Business isnt it?

This is very misleading, there is nothing natural (or un-natural) about 'dead end' jobs, the idea that they will all go bust is misleading too. These jobs are a result of how we have organized our economic system, and just as public policy has given rise to these jobs, the same can make them disappear, and not in the sense of companies going bust.

An example of this is the EU's Temporary and Agency Workers Directive on rights and conditions which affects all EU companies equally. Some might argue that jobs will be lost to outside the EU, but again allowing the goods produced to enter our markets is no more than policy we have decided upon.

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I find it totally laughable that a developed country like the UK can ask someone to work a 40 hour week without providing shelter that they can afford at the end of each day.

If i'm getting this right, we should all work from 9am to 5pm and then sleep in a cardboard box. No wonder people are telling the govenment to feck off.

I hope millions ditch their shitty jobs and go and sign on.

It's state failure. No point in working for a failed state that can't even provid the fecking basics. Pathetic!!

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I find it totally laughable that a developed country like the UK can ask someone to work a 40 hour week without providing shelter that they can afford at the end of each day.

If i'm getting this right, we should all work from 9am to 5pm and then sleep in a cardboard box. No wonder people are telling the govenment to feck off.

I hope millions ditch their shitty jobs and go and sign on.

It's state failure. No point in working for a failed state that can't even provid the fecking basics. Pathetic!!

100% behind this. i dont even bother with a business, never mind a job.

who would get up at x am for this shite ?

Edited by right_freds_dead

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not everyone is lucky enough to enter a growing industry at the outset of a decade of broad economic growth

+1

I was lucky enough.

And I agree with the points about lack of challenge and training. I've worked for lots of companies and only one ever provided the training opportunities that they promised. I ended up paying thousands of my own money to get training in skills that would give me the possibility of promotion and a great career. Crazy. If I had a dollar for each company that promises to develop it's workforce but fails to deliver then I would be a millionaire. They demand a specific skill set but aren't willing to train or contribute. I still see it all the time as I am fortunate enough to have a very strong CV. Companies now expect to shop for employees like they are buying products from ASDA. If you don't tick the boxes then tough, leave them on the shelf. Works in my favour but I know it's not right.

That Investing In People certificate is a right old load of horse manure too.

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+1

I was lucky enough.

And I agree with the points about lack of challenge and training. I've worked for lots of companies and only one ever provided the training opportunities that they promised. I ended up paying thousands of my own money to get training in skills that would give me the possibility of promotion and a great career. Crazy. If I had a dollar for each company that promises to develop it's workforce but fails to deliver then I would be a millionaire. They demand a specific skill set but aren't willing to train or contribute. I still see it all the time as I am fortunate enough to have a very strong CV. Companies now expect to shop for employees like they are buying products from ASDA. If you don't tick the boxes then tough, leave them on the shelf. Works in my favour but I know it's not right.

That Investing In People certificate is a right old load of horse manure too.

i think one of the problems currently is that jobs or opportunities that SEEMED a good bet 10 years ago, and SEEMED a good bet to parents' generations, now are definitely now

some exceptions, but more true examples than exceptions in my view

therefore it is very difficult to know what to get skilled up in that will, by the time your skillset is established (3 to 5 years) still be paying well; this must be (is) very disillusioning

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one way or the other you'll end up bankrupt

Possibly - possibly not. Can't blame companies for doing what they can. Many do pay wages that people can live in even if this country. House prices are the real issue here.

It is very true. Employers want to make as much money as possible out of every employee. They will offer a low a salary as they can in order to achieve that objective. The reason some salaries are so good is the threat of good people going elsewhere, which ends up costing the company more money than they save, so they will pay more to reduce the risk of that happening. If they are not worried if you leave, your salary will be low.

The notion that some suggest, that you should be paid according to your need, is ludicrous. If private sector companies did that then they would go bust in double quick time.

CCC, why is it, do you think, that so many people seem to look at things from the point of view of what people need, rather than looking at it and measuring how much people are actually producing? Is socialism that deeply ingrained?

Who knows - far too complicated a subject to know what is going on. However I do know that just saying 'companies should pay more' is rather unfair. As others have said perhaps they need to lobby Government on housing issues ? Then again - it is every man for himself and most of the big bods at these companies will no doubt be 'homeowners' with ******ed up ideas of why high property prices are good for everyone.

You don't seem to get that there has been a fundamental change in the job types available and their conditions over the past 20 years, as jobs have become deskilled and the employment pyramid has flattened. It used to be that the majority of work had a progression tree, which provided a massive incentive for those starting out. And those that didnt still had regular wage rises in line with time served so even if you didnt progress you could eventually afford a home, family, holidays, pensions, etc. I was raised in exactly one of those types of families.

Nowadays we have what people term 'crap jobs' and its not really because of an entitlement culture (though this does play a minor part) but because all those things that jobs at that level eventually enabled through time served - a home, family, holidays, pensions - no longer are possible. They are instead short-term part time contacts which continually cycle people through and are a 'dead end' to those taking them. Around 20% of UK jobs are now of this type. Studies have shown that of those in these types of jobs ~80% are still doing 'dead end' jobs five and ten years later. Can't find them now, but i posted links to them here in a discussion 2-3 months ago.

But all this should not be surprising given the rate at which inequality has increased in the UK. In 1970 the bottom 50% took 16% of GDP home as wages, now its 12% of GDP. That loss of relative income has to come from somewhere, and those which have the weakest bargaining position in our labour force, those discussed above, have lost the most.

I am in a 'dead end' job. Never had a 'career'. Never want to. However I earn moer than enough to get by. Maybe I am just lucky ? However please don't act like this does not exist in the UK. It does.

The problem is costs due to Government policies implemented over many many years resulting in a ridiculous amount of debt - both private and public - now overhanging everything we do in this country. That is the issue. Can we blame private companies for it ? Well perhaps for some as they were part fo it like everyone else in the country. However it is ultimatley up to the Government to decide on policies. And it is ultimately up to the people to vote that Government in or out.

So all in all it is perhaps our own fault.

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i think one of the problems currently is that jobs or opportunities that SEEMED a good bet 10 years ago, and SEEMED a good bet to parents' generations, now are definitely now

some exceptions, but more true examples than exceptions in my view

therefore it is very difficult to know what to get skilled up in that will, by the time your skillset is established (3 to 5 years) still be paying well; this must be (is) very disillusioning

a lot has changed since 2001 (sept 2001)

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indeed, its EXACTLY the same as employing robots to make things.

I think it was Henry Ford who famously commented on a new factory staffed by many robots....he said its great for the business today, but robots dont buy cars tommorow.

You may buy your ipod tday made in china, but that worker is NOT going to buy your product tomorrow.

But Chinese, Russians, Indians etc. will pay more for BMWs, Mercs, Audis made in Germany. So your statement is false.

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All that education and you're still an idiot.

I work in that sector, and it's very tough for any graduate to get a lab assistant job now. A graduate is "lucky" if he can get an unpaid internship (then he'll be replaced by another unpaid intern after 6 months ie. Zero cost labor).

As another poster commented. A lot has changed in 12 years. ...... such as quadrupled housing costs, huge student debt etc.

GTF up off YOUR **** and think beyond your own perspective.

+1

Things really are appalling right now for those 16-25.

Graduates are doing jobs for no pay and/or are stacking shelves, etc.

Everyone else is on the dole.

Wonderful. :rolleyes:

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You may buy your ipod tday made in china, but that worker is NOT going to buy your product tomorrow.

Yes they are. China is Apple's fastest growing market...

'Apple Has Monster Sales In China: $2.6 Billion This Quarter, Up 4X':

http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-china-revenue-2011-1

Part of the reason Apple is doing so well in China is its new retail stores.

Earlier on the call, CFO Peter Oppenheimer said Apple's Chinese stores have the most foot traffic, and highest sales of any Apple stores in the world.

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But a small percentage of Chinese, Russians, Indians etc. will pay more for BMWs, Mercs, Audis made in Germany. So your statement is false.

Corrected.

Economies of scale and all that.

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I'd like to thank everyone for the ad hominem attacks. There are too many to do it personally.

Recently one of my team wanted to hire some UK nationals to work in the warehouse. He wanted some people he could develop into supervisors that would be able to write reports etc. He brought them in at the entry level op rate (6.46ph). 40 + hours per week and they would progress to £24K salary within 6 months. None of them lasted 72 hours.

Regular hours, good pay & conditions, and positive discrimination. What more do I have to offer?

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I'd like to thank everyone for the ad hominem attacks. There are too many to do it personally.

Recently one of my team wanted to hire some UK nationals to work in the warehouse. He wanted some people he could develop into supervisors that would be able to write reports etc. He brought them in at the entry level op rate (6.46ph). 40 + hours per week and they would progress to £24K salary within 6 months. None of them lasted 72 hours.

Regular hours, good pay & conditions, and positive discrimination. What more do I have to offer?

If none of them lasted 72 hours then the job must have been really sh!t :rolleyes:

What did it involve?

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24k doesn't cut it these days. Thats about £1400 in your hand each month. Or in other words, pocket money. :rolleyes:

The rent or mortgage will take up 50% of that straight away. 50% on shelter, lol.

I don't think so.

24k would be fine if rent is £200-£300 per month though.

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I'd like to thank everyone for the ad hominem attacks. There are too many to do it personally.

Recently one of my team wanted to hire some UK nationals to work in the warehouse. He wanted some people he could develop into supervisors that would be able to write reports etc. He brought them in at the entry level op rate (6.46ph). 40 + hours per week and they would progress to £24K salary within 6 months. None of them lasted 72 hours.

Regular hours, good pay & conditions, and positive discrimination. What more do I have to offer?

Actual good pay and conditions I think.

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  • 317 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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