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Youngsters Put Off Work By 'crap' Jobs, Says Cipd

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The point is, a crap job used to have an incentive called "being able to buy/rent your own place". That was the reward.

The housing bubble has destroyed the incentive to work.

indeed, working at Dagenham Ford on the lines was well paid BECAUSE it was dull and mind numbing.

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I quit my job in the meat processing plant (which as of tomorrow closes with the loss of 200+ jobs), they had to replace me with two foreign staff! A new plant is being opened in Scotland, there will be 100 jobs only, and production will have increased. People have lost their jobs to robots.

I quit because the contract was essentially 0 hours and you could not budget or plan for the future. The 84 hour weeks were great, the 32 hours weeks were soul destroying, earning about £5 a week less than benefits. (and it wasn't worth 5 hours of form filling, multiple journeys etc to claim for £8 or so for one week, to then have to cancel claim and wait for the money to filter through). You come home knackered, whilst your unemployed peers are living a 'relative life of riley'. When you get insulted with only 24 hours of work in a week and they hire another person to reduce their holiday pay liability etc., then you think Fk Job.

Minimum wage is fine, if you have the hours.

Hopefully Universal credit should solve the problem , but having to work for two hours to be able to purchase 568ml of beer from your local pub, nearest pub that hasn't closed. Well, it is ridiculous.

Where are the hours? Where is the reward?

welcome to the Global Economy. Its good for you.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8777177/Youngsters-put-off-work-by-crap-jobs-says-CIPD.html

So if you literally do work in crap, ie in the sewers how is the employer going to make this job more attractive? Put nice scented candles in the drains?

Some work is crap, but it still needs doing.

1. Pay a living wage

2. Show some respect to employees rather than treating them like cattle who are expendable

3. Provide job security by stopping the encroachment of flexi, part-time, hourly-paid casual work

4. Get rid of this managment bullying culture we have

I think that would improve most people's jobs even if they worked in a sewer.

Edited by Lewis Gordon Pugh

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Elderly relatives of mine (now early 80s) were a factory worker and a cleaner in a laboratory.

They managed to afford a nice 3 bed semi-detached house in the suburbs of a prosperous city, a new car every few years and a foreign holiday once every year or two.

Both got final salary, inflation adjusted pensions from their private sector employers.

I guarantee such a lifestyle simply isn't possible for a similar couple today and it has little to do with a work ethic.

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1. Pay a living wage

2. Show some respect to employees rather than treating them like cattle who are expendable

3. Provide job security by stopping the encroachment of flexi, part-time, hourly-paid casual work

4. Get rid of this manager bullying culture we have

I think that would improve most people's jobs even if they worked in a sewer.

trouble is, much Private business is hampered by huge loans and interest payments...business fades but the bankers dont give a frack..they send the Mozilla brothers around in their slick suits and say "frack you, pay me".

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trouble is, much Private business is hampered by huge loans and interest payments...business fades but the bankers dont give a frack..they send the Mozilla brothers around in their slick suits and say "frack you, pay me".

They do and its shit. Something has to be done because even hard working normally proud people are starting to think '****** this im off'

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Everyone leaving uni these days expects to start as executives, managers etc. This is not new. 12 years ago I started as a lab assistant working shift for 12K. I was disappointed with the job after 4 years at uni. Now I'm MD in the same sector.

Not everyone can be a MD....not everyone is capable of being a MD.

There are fewer jobs where one can progress to the top for most people, promotion is non existent in many industries. When there is high unemployment and fewer secure jobs about it is unwise and riskier to move to different companies to try and progress...the housing problem makes it all the more harder......

There are too many dead-end-jobs with little or no prospects....many of them wouldn't pay the rent let alone support a family.....wake up. ;)

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http://www.telegraph...-says-CIPD.html

So if you literally do work in crap, ie in the sewers how is the employer going to make this job more attractive? Put nice scented candles in the drains?

Some work is crap, but it still needs doing.

I reckon that working in a sewer could actually be quite fun (once you get past the smell of course); better than data-entry anyway.

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The Government seem out of touch with the massive changes going on in the world economy. The growing economies of India and China amongst others, are growing because of global wage arbitrage. It is simply cheaper to make things and develop things in lower wage economies. When an Indian can compete in the same market as a Western man, the forces of supply and demand will move the market until wages equalise. Bad for Mr West, but you cant say it isnt fair.

It is the private sector, particularly the sectors where the goods and services are traded internationally, that are feeling this affect. It means that both jobs move to other countries, and those jobs that remain will be of lower value.

You end up with an economy that initially feels good, as it is able to buy products at much cheaper prices, but then starts to notice that its ability to buy those products is falling. What the Government should be doing is acknowledging what is going on and adjust accordingly.

They are not adjusting though. Wages and other state expenditures have not fallen in line with the private sector's output. The result of this is first of all a burgeoning deficit that we hear so much about. Worse, to try close the deficit, they have put more taxes onto the private sector, rather than cutting how much they spend. Meanwhile, the benefits available to some that can get a free house amongst other things, are so good, that there is simply no incentive left to work. This drives more and more people out of the private sector, making the deficit even worse. It becomes a death spiral, and we are sliding down it quickly.

If Mr private sector West is going to compete against Mr East, and is burdened with supporting huge numbers of pensioners and benefit claimants and overpaid public sector workers, then he is not going to be able to compete except at much lower wages. The employer doesnt care if the cost is tax or wages, only the overall cost.

So the good jobs are moving eastward, and there is no reason at all for them to come back until the real wages in the UK are much much lower than they are now. Eventually the East will become richer, and the West poorer until these things equalise, that will happen. However, if Mr East supports only himself, and Mr West supports through his taxes two other people, then on average those 3 people will get a third of what Mr East gets. The amount of GDP per capita in the UK will be far lower if the rewards for producing in the private sector are crushed by public sector obligations.

You can see the result of the Government's policies in the others posts above. Employers wont take on people for anything other than part time work because of contractual legislation. Pay is low but the costs to employers are still high. The government's deficit is high and growing. And yet people think it is right to put people in 'need' at the front of the handout queue. If you dont let the producers have a goodly share of what they producet, very soon there will be no more handouts.

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Plenty of youngsters working in pubs, shops, petrol stations etc. However these tend to be the single types doing it for the beer money. Once babies become part of the equation though.......

These jobs are great for youngsters, so long as they can live with Mum and Dad indeffinately.

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The Government seem out of touch with the massive changes going on in the world economy. The growing economies of India and China amongst others, are growing because of global wage arbitrage. It is simply cheaper to make things and develop things in lower wage economies. When an Indian can compete in the same market as a Western man, the forces of supply and demand will move the market until wages equalise. Bad for Mr West, but you cant say it isnt fair.

It is the private sector, particularly the sectors where the goods and services are traded internationally, that are feeling this affect. It means that both jobs move to other countries, and those jobs that remain will be of lower value.

You end up with an economy that initially feels good, as it is able to buy products at much cheaper prices, but then starts to notice that its ability to buy those products is falling. What the Government should be doing is acknowledging what is going on and adjust accordingly.

They are not adjusting though. Wages and other state expenditures have not fallen in line with the private sector's output. The result of this is first of all a burgeoning deficit that we hear so much about. Worse, to try close the deficit, they have put more taxes onto the private sector, rather than cutting how much they spend. Meanwhile, the benefits available to some that can get a free house amongst other things, are so good, that there is simply no incentive left to work. This drives more and more people out of the private sector, making the deficit even worse. It becomes a death spiral, and we are sliding down it quickly.

If Mr private sector West is going to compete against Mr East, and is burdened with supporting huge numbers of pensioners and benefit claimants and overpaid public sector workers, then he is not going to be able to compete except at much lower wages. The employer doesnt care if the cost is tax or wages, only the overall cost.

So the good jobs are moving eastward, and there is no reason at all for them to come back until the real wages in the UK are much much lower than they are now. Eventually the East will become richer, and the West poorer until these things equalise, that will happen. However, if Mr East supports only himself, and Mr West supports through his taxes two other people, then on average those 3 people will get a third of what Mr East gets. The amount of GDP per capita in the UK will be far lower if the rewards for producing in the private sector are crushed by public sector obligations.

You can see the result of the Government's policies in the others posts above. Employers wont take on people for anything other than part time work because of contractual legislation. Pay is low but the costs to employers are still high. The government's deficit is high and growing. And yet people think it is right to put people in 'need' at the front of the handout queue. If you dont let the producers have a goodly share of what they producet, very soon there will be no more handouts.

indeed, its EXACTLY the same as employing robots to make things.

I think it was Henry Ford who famously commented on a new factory staffed by many robots....he said its great for the business today, but robots dont buy cars tommorow.

You may buy your ipod tday made in china, but that worker is NOT going to buy your product tomorrow.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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The Government seem out of touch with the massive changes going on in the world economy. The growing economies of India and China amongst others, are growing because of global wage arbitrage.

A nice analysis. Presumably you can take the German route and try to stay ahead of the competition?

However, as a hypothesis, I'll suggest that the government has known about this, and has reacted in what it considered the only way possible - we can't compete with the East's production, but where we do have an advantage is in our skill at skimming a portion off their production, i.e.we'll become the bankers of the world. This would explain their reluctance to do the rational thing and try to reduce the size of the UK banking sector (assets of about 500% GDP if I correctly recall - enough to Icelandize the UK if anything goes seriously wrong). It's the only game in town, and for most of the noughties it worked: let rip the financial sector and pick up decent crumbs to featherbed all those suffering from the global wage arbitrage (not only the unemployed but also subsidize the jobs of most of the country with tax credits).

It doesn't look so good now, but since there is no alternative, that's what we're going to stick with and Vickers is pushed out to 2019, etc.

Peter.

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Whilst clearly there are a lot of companies taking the mick. There are also a lot that pay their staff well, give them lots of excellent benefits - and treat them decently. I don't think pretending these do not exist makes any sense. They do. And they are all over the place.

High housing costs are - as others have pointed out - the real issue here. What do we want ? Employers to pay more due to the ridiculous property bubble that has occured in this country ?

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Too late ;)

No one is forced to do anything. The generally accepted view is that kids should do GCSEs, A levels, then go on to a degree if they want to make anything of themselves, and this view is increasingly less valid with student costs and the labour market, but that's not the same as being "forced". I'd draw a parallel with the housing market in 2006, and the overwhelming view that everyone "needed to get on the ladder, prices only go up" etc.

As a result of balmy housing costs, none of the wages offered seem worth getting up for. Far too many doing pointless degrees which entitle them to no advantage in the job market. It is a fraud on young people's expectations to fleece them for £9k pa + living exps to gain some degrees which are really not useful to any employer. They are dumbed down and not full of intellectual rigour these days.

Much better to sort out the apprentice system. Start on a very low wage, living at home, save up a bit, learn something useful and go from there.

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Companies want their cake and eat it too, up to the late 80s people were getting lots of additions to working, now they dont, companies dont pay a livable wage so with have tax credits. The state/ government has broken its social contract by not providing homes, a basic part of a expanding economy, they have forced new and more taxes on their workers to pay for more and more people that claim tax credits etc.. this will just expand till almost all the population receives tax credits.

The really need to build more homes, they really need more social homes they cant afford to keep paying into the private accommodation sector, what happens 20/30 years when people in their 40s now retire the housing benefit cost is going to hit the roof, the jsa and other benefits is going to hit the roof, and it boils down to the price of accommodation in this country, its a domino effect, that no present government will talk about.

If they take away benefits or reduce them it'll cause major riots and will turn this country into an African state.

Edited by crash2006

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The Government seem out of touch with the massive changes going on in the world economy...<snip>

Excellent post, and the reason why this country needs real and deep cuts now regardless of how we propose to compete in future.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8777177/Youngsters-put-off-work-by-crap-jobs-says-CIPD.html

So if you literally do work in crap, ie in the sewers how is the employer going to make this job more attractive? Put nice scented candles in the drains?

Some work is crap, but it still needs doing.

Well then perhaps the employers should try offering higher salaries? People are more likely to do a crap job if you pay them enough money to afford to have their own home etc...

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As I have already said - why should employers offer high salaries due to a ridiculous credit/housing bubble that has occured ? Unless they are directly involved (Banks or builders) then wouldn't this mean they are paying for the mistakes and greed of others ?

Which is something most reading this site are wholeheartedly against....

If you owned a business would you offer your workers higher salaries due to the ridiculous inflated housing costs in this country ? No - I didn't think so. You would think that was a ridiculous and very unfair thing to ask....

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I wonder if there has ever been a generation in history that didn't complain that the one after it was soft, lazy, unemployable etc.

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Well then perhaps the employers should try offering higher salaries? People are more likely to do a crap job if you pay them enough money to afford to have their own home etc...

How can private sector employers do that? They are competing against those that can get the same labour at a much cheaper price. If they pay too much, they will go bust. Business isnt it?

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How can private sector employers do that? They are competing against those that can get the same labour at a much cheaper price. If they pay too much, they will go bust. Business isnt it?

Fine. But then they should stop moaning they cannot find employees and do something proactive like lobbying for government policies to actually do something about the crazy house prices. Probably won't happen because most managers on high salaries probably have expensive houses and they are not willing to see them reduce in value though.

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i dont think it has anything to do with the job, its the life that job can provide thats the problem and its NIL. so theres no point. pre boom, you would take a shitty job so you could raise a small family or have a flat and go out. now if you dare go out to work, all it provides is more work and they hand your tax to fred goodin. i can see why someone wouldnt want to bother.

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Fine. But then they should stop moaning they cannot find employees and do something proactive like lobbying for government policies to actually do something about the crazy house prices. Probably won't happen because most managers on high salaries probably have expensive houses and they are not willing to see them reduce in value though.

+1

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in the 80s people would get out of bed for a breville sandwich maker. then in the late 80s when they saw it became impossible due to the boom, the rave anti society scene took off. when you remove the carrot the horse stops walking.

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  • 317 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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