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Youngsters Put Off Work By 'crap' Jobs, Says Cipd

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8777177/Youngsters-put-off-work-by-crap-jobs-says-CIPD.html

John Philpott, chief economist at the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, has lambasted companies that complain about the lack of "employability" among today's youngsters. Instead, he urged them to stop blaming the education system and make jobs more attractive.

"The big issue for employers is in many cases the world of work is so crap," he said. "That's an area employers ought to be addressing rather than focusing too narrowly on the skills and the employability of the people."

Speaking at a fringe event on youth unemployment at the Liberal Democrats' conference on Tuesday, Mr Philpott said it was "not surprising" so many disadvantaged school-leavers end up on benefits when a large number of the vacancies on offer appeared to have little or no career prospects.

"These people might be disadvantaged but they're not stupid – they see the jobs many of their friends are going into and think, 'What is the point of engaging in all this education and training if I'm ending up in a crap job that's paying me relatively little money with no training and no advancement?'

"It's one of the big questions employers never talk about because they never want to blame themselves for problems – they want to push the problem onto somebody else."

So if you literally do work in crap, ie in the sewers how is the employer going to make this job more attractive? Put nice scented candles in the drains?

Some work is crap, but it still needs doing.

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"These people might be disadvantaged but they're not stupid – they see the jobs many of their friends are going into and think, 'What is the point of engaging in all this education and training if I'm ending up in a crap job that's paying me relatively little money with no training and no advancement?'

The problem is that after 16+ years in education (incurring debts up to £40k) the expectations are too high for the jobs on offer...

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The problem is that the jobs are crap and that the alternative option of being on benefits is more attractive.

You can fix the problem by making jobs more attractive or the alternative less attractive.

Clearly a well functioning society will do the latter.

Simples.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8777177/Youngsters-put-off-work-by-crap-jobs-says-CIPD.html

So if you literally do work in crap, ie in the sewers how is the employer going to make this job more attractive? Put nice scented candles in the drains?

Some work is crap, but it still needs doing.

I'll just get in before "culture of entitlement" daily mailers start spouting shite.

Forcing the young to pay via debt for basically random education before then moaning about how they don't have any applicable skills and don't seem to care much gets feck all sympathy from me. :)

Edited by Injin

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The problem is that the jobs are crap and that the alternative option of being on benefits is more attractive.

You can fix the problem by making jobs more attractive or the alternative less attractive.

Clearly a well functioning society will do the latter.

Simples.

Benefits are more attarctive due to enormous rentierism.

Removing the benefits without also removing the grasping rentiers is simply abuse/exploitation.

Which means it'll be tried, obviously and sadly.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8777177/Youngsters-put-off-work-by-crap-jobs-says-CIPD.html

So if you literally do work in crap, ie in the sewers how is the employer going to make this job more attractive? Put nice scented candles in the drains?

Some work is crap, but it still needs doing.

Completely true. Some work needs doing. I think the problem is more that everything is too expensive/pay is sh1t :) If you can't get a car and have no hope of a home or funding your own family, why bother. I don't endorse this but I hope to find my why out of this mess.

I did a christmas job shelf stacking in Tescos. I got naff all money and it was hard work and I have done a lot of silly jobs. My normal job being in ICT so completely soft but hey ho.

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I'll just get in before "culture of entitlement" daily mailers start spouting shite.

Too late ;)

Forcing the young to pay via debt for basically random education before then moaning about how they don't have any applicable skills and don't seem to care much gets feck all sympathy from me. :)

No one is forced to do anything. The generally accepted view is that kids should do GCSEs, A levels, then go on to a degree if they want to make anything of themselves, and this view is increasingly less valid with student costs and the labour market, but that's not the same as being "forced". I'd draw a parallel with the housing market in 2006, and the overwhelming view that everyone "needed to get on the ladder, prices only go up" etc.

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Too late ;)

No one is forced to do anything. The generally accepted view is that kids should do GCSEs, A levels, then go on to a degree if they want to make anything of themselves, and this view is increasingly less valid with student costs and the labour market, but that's not the same as being "forced". I'd draw a parallel with the housing market in 2006, and the overwhelming view that everyone "needed to get on the ladder, prices only go up" etc.

I would say there is a lot of pressure on children to do the "right thing" - from education to buying a house. Parents and peers alike. Parents bought houses and were educated and got houses.(end of generalisation)

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A lot of entry level jobs are crap. But you do them, you show aptitude and application, and you progress. It used to be called "earning your stripes".

Everyone leaving uni these days expects to start as executives, managers etc. This is not new. 12 years ago I started as a lab assistant working shift for 12K. I was disappointed with the job after 4 years at uni. Now I'm MD in the same sector.

GTF up off your arses and get to work!

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A lot of entry level jobs are crap. But you do them, you show aptitude and application, and you progress. It used to be called "earning your stripes".

Everyone leaving uni these days expects to start as executives, managers etc. This is not new. 12 years ago I started as a lab assistant working shift for 12K. I was disappointed with the job after 4 years at uni. Now I'm MD in the same sector.

GTF up off your arses and get to work!

not everyone is lucky enough to enter a growing industry at the outset of a decade of broad economic growth

Edited by Si1

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A lot of entry level jobs are crap. But you do them, you show aptitude and application, and you progress. It used to be called "earning your stripes".

Everyone leaving uni these days expects to start as executives, managers etc. This is not new. 12 years ago I started as a lab assistant working shift for 12K. I was disappointed with the job after 4 years at uni. Now I'm MD in the same sector.

GTF up off your arses and get to work!

True as recently as 10 to 20 years ago, but not now.

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The food industry has been around for 200 years. It's not like I got in at an early stage of a new technology. I worked hard for a lot of large companies to progress.

maybe, we had a consumer boom, sharply raising standards of living, I gather fashion has done well in this time too; I understand food technology is big business these days??

a bit like saying technology or medicine has been around for 200 years, technically true, but immaterial with respect to whether they have been growth areas last 10 years

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I quit my job in the meat processing plant (which as of tomorrow closes with the loss of 200+ jobs), they had to replace me with two foreign staff! A new plant is being opened in Scotland, there will be 100 jobs only, and production will have increased. People have lost their jobs to robots.

I quit because the contract was essentially 0 hours and you could not budget or plan for the future. The 84 hour weeks were great, the 32 hours weeks were soul destroying, earning about £5 a week less than benefits. (and it wasn't worth 5 hours of form filling, multiple journeys etc to claim for £8 or so for one week, to then have to cancel claim and wait for the money to filter through). You come home knackered, whilst your unemployed peers are living a 'relative life of riley'. When you get insulted with only 24 hours of work in a week and they hire another person to reduce their holiday pay liability etc., then you think Fk Job.

Minimum wage is fine, if you have the hours.

Hopefully Universal credit should solve the problem , but having to work for two hours to be able to purchase 568ml of beer from your local pub, nearest pub that hasn't closed. Well, it is ridiculous.

Where are the hours? Where is the reward?

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This is not new. 12 years ago I started as a lab assistant working shift for 12K. I was disappointed with the job after 4 years at uni. Now I'm MD in the same sector.

GTF up off your arses and get to work!

A lot has changed in the last 12 years.

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The problem is that the jobs are crap and that the alternative option of being on benefits is more attractive.

You can fix the problem by making jobs more attractive or the alternative less attractive.

Clearly a well functioning society will do the latter.

Simples.

Wouldn't a well-functioning society do the former? Use of the carrot instead of the stick seems preferable if at all possible, no?

Peter.

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Wouldn't a well-functioning society do the former? Use of the carrot instead of the stick seems preferable if at all possible, no?

The mistake is the drive for efficiency and not quality. Admittedly that gets rid of some of the crap (some crap jobs are easy to automate) but by no means all. The drive for efficiency is ultimately pointless unless there's a labour shortage.

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A lot of entry level jobs are crap. But you do them, you show aptitude and application, and you progress. It used to be called "earning your stripes".

Everyone leaving uni these days expects to start as executives, managers etc. This is not new. 12 years ago I started as a lab assistant working shift for 12K. I was disappointed with the job after 4 years at uni. Now I'm MD in the same sector.

GTF up off your arses and get to work!

All that education and you're still an idiot.

I work in that sector, and it's very tough for any graduate to get a lab assistant job now. A graduate is "lucky" if he can get an unpaid internship (then he'll be replaced by another unpaid intern after 6 months ie. Zero cost labor).

As another poster commented. A lot has changed in 12 years. ...... such as quadrupled housing costs, huge student debt etc.

GTF up off YOUR **** and think beyond your own perspective.

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Wouldn't a well-functioning society do the former? Use of the carrot instead of the stick seems preferable if at all possible, no?

Peter.

No.

Making benefits less attractive and so getting people off them allows less taxation from people/businesses and so promotes jobs becoming more attractive naturally.

Making jobs more attractive while retaining an attractive 'do nothing' option isn't possible, viable, economically affordable or moral.

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All that education and you're still an idiot.

I work in that sector, and it's very tough for any graduate to get a lab assistant job now. A graduate is "lucky" if he can get an unpaid internship (then he'll be replaced by another unpaid intern after 6 months ie. Zero cost labor).

As another poster commented. A lot has changed in 12 years. ...... such as quadrupled housing costs, huge student debt etc.

GTF up off YOUR **** and think beyond your own perspective.

They are the jobs I'm applying for, all the people I know from uni are applying for them too, most getting by, by working min wage jobs in shops etc. 12 years on the starting wage is 12k still..

Hopefully I should have landed myself a job at about £14k in a library soon anyhow (working about 32 hours a week).

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That and there is absolutely no possibility of advancement, or even a permanent contract. You often don't even learn any crossover skills due to micro tasking.

Employers are sh*t and only have themselves to blame!

+1 I was at a job interview shortly after graduating and I asked what my scope for advancement with the company would be if I showed the right amount of initiative etc. The lady interviewing me became stoney faced and replied, "Absolutely none".

I have done some really crazy shifts in sh!t jobs little pay in my time and also worked for some fantastic organisations. Some companies get it and others don't.

A good rule of thumb is to check out the catering facilities provided for the staff.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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