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CommonSense

Wait, Wait, Wait.

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Why do the owning-class attempt to put so much pressure on the renting-class to buy?

If they were really that concerned for my future financial stability, surely they would just give me a suitcase full of crisp benevolent tenners and be done with it?

But no.

Oh no.

They try and try to convince me to drink from the spring of eternal wealth, be it through ill-thought-out financial reasoning (a la VI quotes), fiddled figures (a la VI figures), herd demographics, snide comments, ‘jokes’, or offensive emotional blackmail.

I have now even been labelled with an affliction, that of mortgage-phobia. A poor attempt at saying there must be something wrong with me.

Nothing wrong me.

I have Common Sense.

Every pathetic trick in the book has been tried on me, and every pathetic trick in the book has failed, I honestly feel like Kasparov playing the thicker half of the Chuckle brothers with a Closed Sicilian defence.

I’m not for one second suggesting that I am intelligent.

I merely stating that I not thick as horse sh*te.

For that is all it takes to see that bubbled nakedness of Emperor Brown.

Emperor Nero fiddled as Rome burned

Emperor Brown did as well as the UK did also.

The owner-class attempt to convince me that it’s in the interests of my future financial security; the reality is that they need to convince me for the future financial security of themselves.

Such greed is ugliness indeed.

In fact the phrase “f**k them” is one which often vibrates through my strongest and most flexible moral fibres.

We drive the market, we halt the market.

The core of this trend is the ingrained knowledge that their beloved housing hindenburg cannot survive without my and indeed your hard earned money.

The strength of their desperate persuasion is directly proportional to magnitude of their anxieties regarding their future buoyancy.

Wait.

3.5

3.5

3.5

Now is not the time to purchase property.

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Guest growl
Why do the owning-class attempt to put so much pressure on the renting-class to buy?

If they were really that concerned for my future financial stability, surely they would just give me a suitcase full of crisp benevolent tenners and be done with it?

But no.

Oh no.

They try and try to convince me to drink from the spring of eternal wealth, be it through ill-thought-out financial reasoning (a la VI quotes), fiddled figures (a la VI figures), herd demographics, snide comments, ‘jokes’, or offensive emotional blackmail.

They do it to make themselves feel better. Its also called keeping up with the Jones's. This country used to be afflicted with class envy and pity. I was reminded of it by an old sketch on telly the other night when Ronnie Barker died.

Its the one where three chaps are standing side by side and the tallest one with the bowler looks down on the shorter one with the trilby who looks down on the even shorter one with the flat cap.

These days its more about what you (supposedly) own. The biggest and most obvious being your property.

So its now the property class...and the thing about class snobbery of any kind is that its a mixture of many emotions. Pride, envy and pity being the main culprits.

At the moment the (supposedly)property owning class, show pity towards those that cannot afford or will not buy property. But there is also false pride in that they think they are better off, and then an envy in that they know deep down that they own nothing except a huge debt around their necks.

Very soon the only emotion will be despair. <_<

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Interesting post. I think the logic runs much deeper that mere greed though, I don't think it is calculated as that.

I would put it down to the herd mentality of our not-so-great-race. It is a herd mentality driven by insecurity ("Have I done the right thing?")and craving the indulgence of approval ("Of course you have, I'm doing the same").

This same set of insecurities rears its head with childbirth. Once a family had had their 1st child they then start interrogating friends and asking "When are you having one?". It is as much about them massaging their own fears about making that decision as it is about influencing the person getting their ear-bent.

They want the responsibility for taking the decision (be that buying a house or having a child) to be absolved. Being responsible for your own decisions is scary.

Now, where's my tweed jacket...I'm feeling academic now.

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The owner-class attempt to convince me that it’s in the interests of my future financial security; the reality is that they need to convince me for the future financial security of themselves.

Great rant.... :)

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That is an excellent post CS. A financial class war! Marx would be going mental.

(BTW I'm a 3.5, although I won't buy until it's 3.0 or less).

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Interesting post. I think the logic runs much deeper that mere greed though, I don't think it is calculated as that.

I would put it down to the herd mentality of our not-so-great-race. It is a herd mentality driven by insecurity ("Have I done the right thing?")and craving the indulgence of approval ("Of course you have, I'm doing the same").

This same set of insecurities rears its head with childbirth. Once a family had had their 1st child they then start interrogating friends and asking "When are you having one?". It is as much about them massaging their own fears about making that decision as it is about influencing the person getting their ear-bent.

They want the responsibility for taking the decision (be that buying a house or having a child) to be absolved. Being responsible for your own decisions is scary.

Now, where's my tweed jacket...I'm feeling academic now.

You are abslutely right and it is this growing insecurity that has fuelled the housing market over the last few years. But it goies beyond this as it is not just insecurity about what others are doing but insecurity about the capaility of the government and finaincail institutions and mechanisms to proetect 'society' from the worst of capitalism. Building our own little empires (and our own castles) helps us feel more in control of our lives rather than relying of government and institutions.

This is why I do not think we will ever revert to a renting mentaility but will continue to hold onto the desire to own our own property.

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You are abslutely right and it is this growing insecurity that has fuelled the housing market over the last few years. But it goies beyond this as it is not just insecurity about what others are doing but insecurity about the capaility of the government and finaincail institutions and mechanisms to proetect 'society' from the worst of capitalism. Building our own little empires (and our own castles) helps us feel more in control of our lives rather than relying of government and institutions.

This is why I do not think we will ever revert to a renting mentaility but will continue to hold onto the desire to own our own property.

I disagree. Herds can change direction.

If things continue to get more and more bearish there will come a time when buying property is seen as a financially crippling risk. This will be during a period of great insecurity in the job-market and high unemployment. Taking on a house then will be seen as incredibly rash...but not for those who have spent the years saving for such an occasion.

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Why do the owning-class attempt to put so much pressure on the renting-class to buy?

If they were really that concerned for my future financial stability, surely they would just give me a suitcase full of crisp benevolent tenners and be done with it?

But no.

Oh no.

They try and try to convince me to drink from the spring of eternal wealth, be it through ill-thought-out financial reasoning (a la VI quotes), fiddled figures (a la VI figures), herd demographics, snide comments, ‘jokes’, or offensive emotional blackmail.

I have now even been labelled with an affliction, that of mortgage-phobia. A poor attempt at saying there must be something wrong with me.

Nothing wrong me.

I have Common Sense.

Every pathetic trick in the book has been tried on me, and every pathetic trick in the book has failed, I honestly feel like Kasparov playing the thicker half of the Chuckle brothers with a Closed Sicilian defence.

I’m not for one second suggesting that I am intelligent.

I merely stating that I not thick as horse sh*te.

For that is all it takes to see that bubbled nakedness of Emperor Brown.

Emperor Nero fiddled as Rome burned

Emperor Brown did as well as the UK did also.

The owner-class attempt to convince me that it’s in the interests of my future financial security; the reality is that they need to convince me for the future financial security of themselves.

Such greed is ugliness indeed.

In fact the phrase “f**k them” is one which often vibrates through my strongest and most flexible moral fibres.

We drive the market, we halt the market.

The core of this trend is the ingrained knowledge that their beloved housing hindenburg cannot survive without my and indeed your hard earned money.

The strength of their desperate persuasion is directly proportional to magnitude of their anxieties regarding their future buoyancy.

Wait.

3.5

3.5

3.5

Now is not the time to purchase property.

Commonsense: You are SO right. Just hang in there - EVERYONE !!!! Just REFUSE to buy!!! Do whatever it takes!!!

The 3.5 x your salary benchmark is THE KEY figure &/or formula. Not so long ago you simply were NOT ALLOWED to borrow more than 2 to 2.5 x your salary - Why? Because sensible bank managers [Where are they today? Extinct] UNDERSTOOD that this was the limit to which an ordinary, normal person - with family responsibilites and prospects reasonably steady & decent life - could stretch himself to. Unfortunately, the SHARK bank "managers" of today regard the normal, ordinary person as prey - from whom to screw as much lucre out of as humanly possible with endless "products" pushed down their throats using sophistry, bribes, hype and lies. Hence the world we live in today - the Enrons, the dotcom boom & crash, Equitable Lifes, endless City and other financial scams, etc. etc. etc.

As we enter the 21st Century, the days of sensible, straightforward advice, prudence, realism and HONESTY appear to be non-existent - and will, in the end, if left unchecked, lead to untold misery. The "take the money and run" [and bugger the consequences] philosophy rules. Even from supposedly credible organisations and institutions. Of course, this has occured before - Tulipmania, The South Sea Bubble, 1929 ........ but, the difference today is that it seems to apply accross the board.

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I disagree. Herds can change direction.

If things continue to get more and more bearish there will come a time when buying property is seen as a financially crippling risk. This will be during a period of great insecurity in the job-market and high unemployment. Taking on a house then will be seen as incredibly rash...but not for those who have spent the years saving for such an occasion.

I agree with you to a point.

Although economically it would seem rash and people may opt not to buy I think the long term desire to own property will continue, even if people realise that it is not their best option.

I know that buying a property now would be finanical suicide but it doesn't stop me wanting to own a property in the future and working towards that end goal.

Do you think there will become a time when people really do not want to own property...not because they can't or think it is a bad decision...but really don't want to?

I'd be interested in your thoughts

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insecurities

DonnieDarker,

You had me on 'insecurities'.

;)

But to play devil's advocate.

The other question about herd mentalities & insecurities is that we exhibit one of our own on this board. Maybe many posters and lurkers alike arrive here to justify their own position: As in, I haven't bought so I need somewhere to virtually go to find other like minded individuals to prove I've done the right thing.

Same coin? ... flip side?

But to argue against this logic is to simply state that in our case most of us haven't made the choice not to buy, it's simply that the economics make it impossible even if we wanted to.

I'm here to spread common sense, the common sense that states that it's wrong to buy a chocolate bar for £5 and wrong to buy a two bed semi for £140K.

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Guest growl
The other question about herd mentalities & insecurities is that we exhibit one of our own on this board. Maybe many posters and lurkers alike arrive here to justify their own position: As in, I haven't bought so I need somewhere to virtually go to find other like minded individuals to prove I've done the right thing.

Well I'm not sure about that. I arrived here simply because I was looking for information on the last HPC to back up my memory of it. I put HPC in google, clicked and this place was at the top of the list. Then, well..I got so much more than I bargained.

I could be wrong. but I believe the majority of peple are arriving here by the same method. People know deep down that something is wrong, and because the newspapers and telly are not giving them the full picture, they are searching on the net.

I was confirmed in this when I lost my Internet connection over the past week. Everything is on the news apart from the economy, and according to what you read and watch it was only a blip a few months ago, and we are back on track.

Its another reason why there are so many lurkers. Because I was one for a week(had to go to the library).

But most of them are just after information. They read the blog and check the forum for links that people might have posted. They don't have the time to really participate.

Those of us who do post alot probably earn their living via the Internet or are retired...and we are probably the ones who are most effected by the lack of affordable housing, or we have good memories of the last crash.

I don't believe we are acting like the herd on this forum. In a years time maybe :rolleyes:

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Well I'm not sure about that. I arrived here simply because I was looking for information on the last HPC to back up my memory of it. I put HPC in google, clicked and this place was at the top of the list. Then, well..I got so much more than I bargained.

I could be wrong. but I believe the majority of peple are arriving here by the same method. People know deep down that something is wrong, and because the newspapers and telly are not giving them the full picture, they are searching on the net.

I was confirmed in this when I lost my Internet connection over the past week. Everything is on the news apart from the economy, and according to what you read and watch it was only a blip a few months ago, and we are back on track.

Its another reason why there are so many lurkers. Because I was one for a week(had to go to the library).

But most of them are just after information. They read the blog and check the forum for links that people might have posted. They don't have the time to really participate.

Those of us who do post alot probably earn their living via the Internet or are retired...and we are probably the ones who are most effected by the lack of affordable housing, or we have good memories of the last crash.

I don't believe we are acting like the herd on this forum. In a years time maybe :rolleyes:

What you say is probably true, I was merely arguing against my own position to attempting ensure balance in both my reasoning and within the minds of anyone reading my opinion, but not for one moment am I attempting to suggest that others are not as or more balanced in their opinions than myself.

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Interesting post. I think the logic runs much deeper that mere greed though, I don't think it is calculated as that.

I would put it down to the herd mentality of our not-so-great-race. It is a herd mentality driven by insecurity ("Have I done the right thing?")and craving the indulgence of approval ("Of course you have, I'm doing the same").

This same set of insecurities rears its head with childbirth. Once a family had had their 1st child they then start interrogating friends and asking "When are you having one?". It is as much about them massaging their own fears about making that decision as it is about influencing the person getting their ear-bent.

They want the responsibility for taking the decision (be that buying a house or having a child) to be absolved. Being responsible for your own decisions is scary.

Now, where's my tweed jacket...I'm feeling academic now.

Has anyone read 'Fear of Freedom' by Erich Fromm? It explains a lot with regard to the absolving of individual decisions through membership of a group. The main thrust is to explain Fascism but could apply to all kinds of things...

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Another bitter individual who expects the one-way boat to come and pick him up. There's quite a crowd

groing on the shore now. You missed it. Deal with it, stop moaning. Move somewhere that's not obsessed with home ownership and more alligned to quality of life; you only have one !

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Another bitter individual who expects the one-way boat to come and pick him up. There's quite a crowd

groing on the shore now. You missed it. Deal with it, stop moaning. Move somewhere that's not obsessed with home ownership and more alligned to quality of life; you only have one !

Exactly which way are you saying the boat is sailing?

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Another bitter individual who expects the one-way boat to come and pick him up. There's quite a crowd

groing on the shore now. You missed it. Deal with it, stop moaning. Move somewhere that's not obsessed with home ownership and more alligned to quality of life; you only have one !

The only bitterness present here seems to be oozing from the anger behind your words. My only emotion whilst writing this is pity.

My words were merely a caution to advise others who seem to be thresholding to wait and see what happens. For if they wait good things will come to them.

As to your wishing me (and others in my situation) to far off land. Believe me the trends are already in place where the young and the skilled are folloing your advice. Taking with them the buoyancy that keeps your precious boat afloat.

As to your assumptions of my expectations: Firstly who are you to assume my nature? Secondly, where do you gain your misplaced arrogance to assume you know and understand my nature?

Why do my words fear you so? for it is fear that has begotten the anger of between your words.

My hope Sir is that you and yours are well and as hard working as myself and mine.

My other hope is that your insight does not increase, for ignorance is bliss and I wish you the greatest happiness.

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Why do the owning-class attempt to put so much pressure on the renting-class to buy?

its obvious. the market needs fresh supplies of money to keep the prices going higher. once the fresh money runs out the whole packof cards collapses.

Galbraith explains it excellently and simply in his book "A SHORT HISTORY OF FINANCIAL EUPHORIA". Others cover the same material but Galbraith is the easiest to understand IMO.

the book is only six pounds on amazon and just over 100 pages,

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Do you think there will become a time when people really do not want to own property...not because they can't or think it is a bad decision...but really don't want to?

Not in our life-times, probably never. My worldy experience could be written on a cigarette packet but although I know that in Europe there is a 'renting culture' I just dont think that will ever apply here for a significant amount of time. Who knows why? I could pontificate about islands and not being invaded for centuries but perhaps that would be a load of hot air.

As for the herd mentality of the forum. Of course there is one. Perhaps 'herd mentality' is too much of a dirty term...I suppose it is interchangeable with the idea of community. 'Herd mentality' is not an innately evil thing but it is very very powerful and is something we have to be aware of. I don't believe any of us can live without some form of herd. It's good to stray sometimes and get some perspective.

Seeking approval and allaying fears are part of the human condition. Perhaps I was too snobbish in my belittling of it earlier? I do think that the majority of us live horrifically un-self-examined lives however.

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Guest The Dude
I agree with you to a point.

Although economically it would seem rash and people may opt not to buy I think the long term desire to own property will continue, even if people realise that it is not their best option.

I know that buying a property now would be finanical suicide but it doesn't stop me wanting to own a property in the future and working towards that end goal.

Do you think there will become a time when people really do not want to own property...not because they can't or think it is a bad decision...but really don't want to?

I'd be interested in your thoughts

An interesting question you ponder 2005. I think there will always be the need for people to have 'space', be it a one million pound pad or a shed or allotment to potter around in. Moreover, People will always want to have a 'home'. However, I think the time has come NOW where people have stopped wanting to own OVERPRICED Property, the reason being it would be foolhardy in the extreme for them to do so. Just when did the phrase "I own property" replace "I own a home"?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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