ccc Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 You also have to factor in the costs of having the job - in particular, travelt o work costs, and the costs of work equipment / clothing, plus any training that you need to do that the company doesn't pay for... Indeed. However at least with an overall citizens income people could make up their own mind if it was worth it for themselves or not. Would just increase everyone choice and allow far more flexibility. Never mind the money, what about wear and tear on your body when you work? It cannot be good for you. Not sure about that. Our bodies are designed to do stuff. Generally speaking those I see who work look a hell of a lot better than those that do not. Lots of other factors to include of course. I think people need to do something. Doesn't matter what really. Just anything to keep your mind and body ticking over. If you don't it seems to quite often turn into a pile of mush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackgoose Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Never mind the money, what about wear and tear on your body when you work? It cannot be good for you. Exactly. If not working, then I would be able to enjoy a more active lifestyle - maybe go jogging or cycling through the daytime. Now, I dont have the energy to go during the week days, leaving only the weekends. Also, my eyesight is suffering due to looking at computer screens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Not sure about that. Our bodies are designed to do stuff. Generally speaking those I see who work look a hell of a lot better than those that do not. Lots of other factors to include of course. I think people need to do something. Doesn't matter what really. Just anything to keep your mind and body ticking over. If you don't it seems to quite often turn into a pile of mush. I went for a walk in a country park this morning and I don't know where the willpower came from but I resisted a scone with jam and clotted cream. So it was another weight loss morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Go for a longer walk or get on your bike instead. Then have the clotted cream and you can enjoy it without feeling guilty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Go for a longer walk or get on your bike instead. Then have the clotted cream and you can enjoy it without feeling guilty It did cross my mind that the walk this morning had earnt it. That's why the willpower was so amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 £400 a week before tax... Sadly that is just about the average weekly wage of the majority of the nation, despite what the stats say. You can earn just as on the various benefit systems if you know how to work them. Ergo, there are so many retired state lackeys earning that sum or more after their less that stellar careers of sucking the socialist UK tit. Sham state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombrady Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I guess most working poor do so because of the protestant work ethic - they'd feel bad scrounging. However, I have no idea why people imprison themselves in a Maccy D's or supermarket all week for b'all money - you could easily beat the meagre wage, say, cyberpeddling on eBay and spend most of your time chilling out. The only reason i still get out of bed to go to work every morning is the work ethic you mention, im perfectly capable of earning a living but its now got to the stage were i work a full week and i still cant afford to house myself, cant even rent except maybe a room as a lodger and im basicaly doing that at my parents anyway. its going to take me another 5 or 6 years of saving every penny i can on top of the 5 years ive already done and then maybe i might be able to buy a basic terrace outright (or maybe not). My calculations are based on not missing a days work for the next 5 years which is highly unlikely as i have been laid off 4 times this year already plus my wages have taken a hit over the last two years and just this morning we were hearing rumours off more price drops on site. God knows how long i will keep trying to get a roof over my head because i know a lad who i work with walked off site not long ago because he had had enough of grafting all week long and knowing full well hes not getting anywhere, one of the other lads will be following him pretty soon because i can tell he is about to snap so there is no chance he will get through the winter on site if hes already nearly snapping. The reason people go to work everyday is because thats what you are supposed to do and it also gives you a certain sense of pride, from what im starting to see around me this pride also applys to having the pi55 took out of you on a daily basis by bent construction firms, bent housing associations, bent benefit claimants, bent banks and last but not least the bent government. People i know feel like mugs for carrying on working (myself included) so your pride takes a hit everyday you go to work knowing full well you are getting nowhere fast whilst all the dodgy ones i mentioned are doing alright for themselves. I think the government like the fact that britain has so many hard working proud people, they might change their minds when all those proud hard working people say **** it ive had enough and just stop working. Long story short, most people i know are ready for throwing the towel in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombrady Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Definitely *cries* lol.. Travel costs must be the biggy. Buying, replacing, testing of tools is the biggy for us who work in the construction industry (depending on your trade) I definitely picked the wrong trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggggy Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) ... Edited September 19, 2011 by douggggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman001 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) There are lots of niches out there that can earn you good money if you design something around, say a spartan, and get the boards manufactured in china. Don't let the Chinese have anything more than test code tho' or they will nick it! Take the piss out of your shitty employer and try and do most of the work at work. If they are paying you bus driver salary they don't deserve more than 1 days work from you. A word of advice tho' ; If you drink oe smoke weed every night you will just stay the way you are and nothing will ever change....... :-) The only thing I'm guilty of is doing too much (and perhaps a little too much HPC). Have you done much with FPGAs yourself? Must admit I haven't... wouldn't mind it, though! I'm mainly analogue but covered some in my MSc. And yeah... after this project is out of the door (I'm helping a fellow engineer who's pretty cool, don't want to let him down) then it's back to leaving at 5:30 rather than 7/8pm. Chips designers at ARM are pretty well paid though + share options - perhaps there is where you should look? Back the right horse ? There are a few companies in the area I could move to now, but I don't want to be the new guy in a company when things go sour again. Commute only 10 minutes right now which I will be honest and tell you is one of the main reasons I'm loving it. It's only the pay... ugh, it is NOT good. Indeed. However at least with an overall citizens income people could make up their own mind if it was worth it for themselves or not. Would just increase everyone choice and allow far more flexibility. Not sure about that. Our bodies are designed to do stuff. Generally speaking those I see who work look a hell of a lot better than those that do not. Lots of other factors to include of course. I think people need to do something. Doesn't matter what really. Just anything to keep your mind and body ticking over. If you don't it seems to quite often turn into a pile of mush. +1 for citizen's income. Not sure about work & health. I sit in a chair staring at a computer screen most days - does nothing for my bodily health or for my eyesight *ouch*. Edited September 19, 2011 by guitarman001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassed off brit Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Everyone needs to do what is good for them and their's. times are going to be too hard very soon to worry about "pride or ethics".....AND NO-ONE WILL BLAME YOU! Those at the top are scurrying around trying to preserve themselves at your expense, play their game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombrady Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Everyone needs to do what is good for them and their's. times are going to be too hard very soon to worry about "pride or ethics".....AND NO-ONE WILL BLAME YOU! Those at the top are scurrying around trying to preserve themselves at your expense, play their game! Good to hear, ive pretty much had enough now so if these gypsies dont get evicted i should be in my own home with no mortgage by christmas i reckon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie568 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Sadly that is just about the average weekly wage of the majority of the nation, despite what the stats say. You can earn just as on the various benefit systems if you know how to work them. Ergo, there are so many retired state lackeys earning that sum or more after their less that stellar careers of sucking the socialist UK tit. Sham state. Yes, sure, you can earn £400 a week through the benefits system, though "earn" is surely a bit rich! Social policy appears to be geared towards getting married as soon as possible (thus avoiding the shared room only until you are 35 housing benefit rate) and having as many children as you can squeeze in. If you work as well, all well and good. You might not get working tax credit, but two people on full time minimum wages would still get help towards their rent and council tax if they had children. If you want to limit the hours worked (to 24 for the family, but one person must work at least 24 hours (used to be 16) in a week, then you get working tax credit for you adn your spouse as well. If you don't fancy working for someone else, you can be self employed, provided you do actually work and keep your gross revenue at a reasonable level, even if you end up making peanuts. The state (that's real, live, taxpayers, not some hypothetical abstract "being") will give you a generous top up. But make no mistake, there is a price to pay for that strategy, and over time it's huge, imho. You remain a tenant all your life. There's people following this strategy that move house every two or three years. You don't get to borrow anything except from extortionist door stop/pay day lenders. And the money you get certainly isn't secure. Your income can go down as surely as it goes up. for instance, housing benefit used to be the local housing allowance, regardless of how much your actual rent was. People sometimes had surpluses running to hundreds of pounds a month. Then it because the lower of average rentals or actual rent plus £15 a week if below the maximum LHA. Then it became the lower of the actual rent or LHA, without the £15. It's about to fall to the lower of the actual rent or LHA set at the 30th percentile, rather than the 50th percentile of average rents. You can't save much. Okay, maybe you aren't earning much anyway, but if you have children £16k is all you can have in liquid assets. That probably means, if you are laid off and have shares and the like, you are going to have to sell them, and liquidate your isa and even your hard earned housing deposit, before you can apply for any help. And there's not much hope of advancement following this strategy. Even for those who elect to become self employed. I remember seeing an interview where Tony Blair freely admitted that, of 1,000 people being sponsored through state help into self employment, only 5% may eventually "make it" and become taxpayers sufficiently wealthy to be able to employ other people. Thirty years down the track, you're still probably going to be in a rental, with low income. At least if you work, even if it's only selling your labour and is at the moment a relatively cr*p job, there's a chance that over time you will increase your earnings and improve your position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 What a daft, complicated system. I look forward to state failure. And when a state fails - it is immediately replaced by another state. How about looking forward to the state only making up say 25% of the economy instead of 50%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Complications, bureaucracy and all manner of rules, regulations, targets and tick boxes, creates employment........take it away and what have you got? Freedom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 The only reason i still get out of bed to go to work every morning is the work ethic you mention, im perfectly capable of earning a living but its now got to the stage were i work a full week and i still cant afford to house myself, cant even rent except maybe a room as a lodger and im basicaly doing that at my parents anyway. its going to take me another 5 or 6 years of saving every penny i can on top of the 5 years ive already done and then maybe i might be able to buy a basic terrace outright (or maybe not). My calculations are based on not missing a days work for the next 5 years which is highly unlikely as i have been laid off 4 times this year already plus my wages have taken a hit over the last two years and just this morning we were hearing rumours off more price drops on site. God knows how long i will keep trying to get a roof over my head because i know a lad who i work with walked off site not long ago because he had had enough of grafting all week long and knowing full well hes not getting anywhere, one of the other lads will be following him pretty soon because i can tell he is about to snap so there is no chance he will get through the winter on site if hes already nearly snapping. The reason people go to work everyday is because thats what you are supposed to do and it also gives you a certain sense of pride, from what im starting to see around me this pride also applys to having the pi55 took out of you on a daily basis by bent construction firms, bent housing associations, bent benefit claimants, bent banks and last but not least the bent government. People i know feel like mugs for carrying on working (myself included) so your pride takes a hit everyday you go to work knowing full well you are getting nowhere fast whilst all the dodgy ones i mentioned are doing alright for themselves. I think the government like the fact that britain has so many hard working proud people, they might change their minds when all those proud hard working people say **** it ive had enough and just stop working. Long story short, most people i know are ready for throwing the towel in. Passive resistance. It worked for Ghandi and it's worked for the ordinary people of Britain We don't riot in the streets, we just refuse to play the game TPTB extended the game by flooding the country with cheap labour and engineering the biggest credit boom in our history Now the sh*t has hit the fan and they have absolutely no idea what to do next. Brilliant - but scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear call spread Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 That probably means, if you are laid off and have shares and the like, you are going to have to sell them, and liquidate your isa and even your hard earned housing deposit, before you can apply for any help. This has had me wondering for sometime. If you do loose your job I have heard they can refuse to pay you jsa/benefits if you have money in savings, but does this actually stretch to them finding out about and asking you to liquidate your ISA allocations you have built up over the years within your allowance? Can they insist that your forfeit all those years of tax allowance you have built up? It wouldn't surprise me mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLegallyBlonde Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 This has had me wondering for sometime. If you do loose your job I have heard they can refuse to pay you jsa/benefits if you have money in savings, but does this actually stretch to them finding out about and asking you to liquidate your ISA allocations you have built up over the years within your allowance? Can they insist that your forfeit all those years of tax allowance you have built up? It wouldn't surprise me mind. Well, they can if they know is my experience. Cash savings are a problem as they show up in experian credit reports which you have to authorise the benefits agencies to be able to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashConnoisseur Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 This has had me wondering for sometime. If you do loose your job I have heard they can refuse to pay you jsa/benefits if you have money in savings, but does this actually stretch to them finding out about and asking you to liquidate your ISA allocations you have built up over the years within your allowance? Can they insist that your forfeit all those years of tax allowance you have built up? Yes, of course they can. Not telling them about any asset here or abroad is fraud. It is posible to shield some wealth by putting it in a pension plan, but you need to do that well in advance of losing your job otherwise it may be deemed to be 'willful deprivation' resulting in the capital still being counted (guilty until you convince them of your innocence). Spending money on items that may help you back into work, such as a computer, car, or training course, may be an acceptable way to reduce capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 And when a state fails - it is immediately replaced by another state. How about looking forward to the state only making up say 25% of the economy instead of 50%? Nah, it doesn't need to be replaced at all. 25% is better than 50%, but 0% is better still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_FaFa!_* Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I design integrated circuits and get paid the same as a bl00dy bus driver! They cannot outsource the bus driver. The bus driver is being paid to put up with drunks and abusive chavs smoking skunk, you are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 They cannot outsource the bus driver. The bus driver is being paid to put up with drunks and abusive chavs smoking skunk, you are not. You could just hire someone from Butt******istan to drive the bus for $5 an hour. Or fit cameras and have an Indian drive it remotely. Or eliminate the driver and replace it with a Google Bus that drives itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Our local bus company wouldn't pay the kind of money needed to automate its services. Not when it can get drivers for £7.34 - £8.29 an hour (although they do offer overtime and enhanced rates of pay at weekends, but we don't have night buses as services knock off before midnight.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 You can't save much. Okay, maybe you aren't earning much anyway, but if you have children £16k is all you can have in liquid assets. That probably means, if you are laid off and have shares and the like, you are going to have to sell them, and liquidate your isa and even your hard earned housing deposit, before you can apply for any help. Good post. That's something else that you only need to consider if you work - contingency. Whereas if your income is entirely derived from benefits, you get free health care and your accommodation is state provided, your "rainy day" is always going to be at somebody else's expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 And when a state fails - it is immediately replaced by another state. How about looking forward to the state only making up say 25% of the economy instead of 50%? I'm looking forward to the day when 90% of the nation's wealth and enterprise isn't concentrated into one small corner of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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