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Suprising Benifits Stats

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0ApxTDapjy8OCdGJidkNMN2F5VDgxTXpBaVM0c1pLUkE&output=html

Seems if you earn anything from minimium wage (about £12k pa) all the way upto 40kpa your take home pay is very close to £34k

This is for a family with 3kids who are renting a house with £226pw rent (average for 3bed waltham forest in london)

Begs the Question. why not get a lower wage job with less hours or less responsibility. The effective Tax rate from minimium wage all the way to 30k for said family is over 90%

2 kids is very similar

It also highlights you can get part of your rent paid even if you earn upto 40k. if you earn £30k with three kids in tow you get 6.25k of your rent paid whereas with a mortgage you get naught. With two kids and 30k income you get 5.8k of your rent paid!

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0ApxTDapjy8OCdGJidkNMN2F5VDgxTXpBaVM0c1pLUkE&output=html

Seems if you earn anything from minimium wage (about £12k pa) all the way upto 40kpa your take home pay is very close to £34k

This is for a family with 3kids who are renting a house with £226pw rent (average for 3bed waltham forest in london)

Begs the Question. why not get a lower wage job with less hours or less responsibility. The effective Tax rate from minimium wage all the way to 30k for said family is over 90%

2 kids is very similar

It also highlights you can get part of your rent paid even if you earn upto 40k. if you earn £30k with three kids in tow you get 6.25k of your rent paid whereas with a mortgage you get naught. With two kids and 30k income you get 5.8k of your rent paid!

I'm stunned, frankly.

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0ApxTDapjy8OCdGJidkNMN2F5VDgxTXpBaVM0c1pLUkE&output=html

Seems if you earn anything from minimium wage (about £12k pa) all the way upto 40kpa your take home pay is very close to £34k

This is for a family with 3kids who are renting a house with £226pw rent (average for 3bed waltham forest in london)

Begs the Question. why not get a lower wage job with less hours or less responsibility. The effective Tax rate from minimium wage all the way to 30k for said family is over 90%

2 kids is very similar

It also highlights you can get part of your rent paid even if you earn upto 40k. if you earn £30k with three kids in tow you get 6.25k of your rent paid whereas with a mortgage you get naught. With two kids and 30k income you get 5.8k of your rent paid!

It is barmy ,

Over the last 15 years those who earn in the middle and the lower end without kids have lost big time . Those in the middle with kids have lost those at the bottom with kids have gained.

The lope sided policy that has screwed so many things up i.e . earnings , tax ect is the mad tax credits system . The figures I have heard people quote are mind numbing . IDS still trotts out the old make work pay cr-p , well to do that they have got to give the system a big kick right up the rear . Somehow I cannot see it happening. Tax credits are now so engrained in the reward system for those with kids that changing it is going to be to big to contemplate.

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I'm stunned, frankly.

I was stunned when a single mum who worked part time two days a week , owned her own home and was receiving maintenance from the farther of the child told me that she got £750 a month tax credits and they paid the nursery fees for the child on the two days that she worked. She was also stunned when she applied and was given what they gave her , she quoted the baby as earning more than she did.

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0ApxTDapjy8OCdGJidkNMN2F5VDgxTXpBaVM0c1pLUkE&output=html

Seems if you earn anything from minimium wage (about £12k pa) all the way upto 40kpa your take home pay is very close to £34k

This is for a family with 3kids who are renting a house with £226pw rent (average for 3bed waltham forest in london)

Begs the Question. why not get a lower wage job with less hours or less responsibility. The effective Tax rate from minimium wage all the way to 30k for said family is over 90%

2 kids is very similar

It also highlights you can get part of your rent paid even if you earn upto 40k. if you earn £30k with three kids in tow you get 6.25k of your rent paid whereas with a mortgage you get naught. With two kids and 30k income you get 5.8k of your rent paid!

Did you put that spreadsheet together, is it right?

If so, little point in earning more money and buying somewhere. Every incentive for people to invest in BTL given the tax advantages in renting for people.

Can anyone verify these figures? What happens after the kids are over 18, presumably disposable income starts to collapse?

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What happens after the kids are over 18, presumably disposable income starts to collapse?

Yes they get a big shock , the golden meal ticket child grows up and they come down to earth with a bang. Add in the fact that at 18 the young adult is more often than not earning peanuts and start becoming a financial burden instead.

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Did you put that spreadsheet together, is it right?

"benifits" in the thread and in the spreadsheet is a clue.

Each month when the stats come out it they show a switch from full time to part time jobs as people wise up and realise full time work is only for mugs or those earning a large salary.

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Did you put that spreadsheet together, is it right?

If so, little point in earning more money and buying somewhere. Every incentive for people to invest in BTL given the tax advantages in renting for people.

Can anyone verify these figures? What happens after the kids are over 18, presumably disposable income starts to collapse?

Yes i put it together. it should be correct assuming the websites i used were correct

mostly figures from here

http://www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits_search.aspx

which i believe to be correct

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0ApxTDapjy8OCdGJidkNMN2F5VDgxTXpBaVM0c1pLUkE&output=html

Seems if you earn anything from minimium wage (about £12k pa) all the way upto 40kpa your take home pay is very close to £34k

This is for a family with 3kids who are renting a house with £226pw rent (average for 3bed waltham forest in london)

Begs the Question. why not get a lower wage job with less hours or less responsibility. The effective Tax rate from minimium wage all the way to 30k for said family is over 90%

2 kids is very similar

It also highlights you can get part of your rent paid even if you earn upto 40k. if you earn £30k with three kids in tow you get 6.25k of your rent paid whereas with a mortgage you get naught. With two kids and 30k income you get 5.8k of your rent paid!

...Gordo's first step to communism ... same bottom line for everyone except the political elite ...the only problem is we can't afford even this first step.... :rolleyes:

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Yes they get a big shock , the golden meal ticket child grows up and they come down to earth with a bang. Add in the fact that at 18 the young adult is more often than not earning peanuts and start becoming a financial burden instead.

i know one woman who had a baby aged nearly 50..by co-incidence her youngest child that year was 18-19

of course it isnt my business and id be too ashamed to ask but its fairly obious said woman had this kid purely for benifits.

her extended family, behind her back , do say it is somewhat shameful for her to have a kid at that age. i suppose everyone knows the reason but no one wants to point it out.

BTW totally different if you actually want a kid at that age for the sake of having a kid. i dont have anything against 50yr old mothers

Edited by cells

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Some more info.

If we take an average family. mum/dad/son/daughter. if the family earns £25k with the farther only effective Take home is £30.7k

If the wife in the couple gets a job paying £25k also then the take home pay is effectively £37.7k

so the job income has gone from £25k to £50k but the take home pay had gone from 30.7k to 37.7k.

That an effective tax rate of 72% & thats before you consider that the wife working this job has costs both financial and social. For example the family may need a second car which would reduce the real benifit. likewise said woman is now in full time work & comuting.

Couple with Two kids

Dad wage / Mum Wage / Take home

£25k / £0k........£30.7k

£25k / £25k......£37.7k

£25k / £15k......£34.5k

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...Gordo's first step to communism ... same bottom line for everyone except the political elite ...the only problem is we can't afford even this first step.... :rolleyes:

+1

I heard someone say that a few years ago and did not agree with them I do now.

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What would the real rate of unemployment be if all those now living to the life style of the average + average earner's on part time work were counted as unemployed and not as employed with their part time low pay jobs enhanced to proper wadges with tax credits ?

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0ApxTDapjy8OCdGJidkNMN2F5VDgxTXpBaVM0c1pLUkE&output=html

Seems if you earn anything from minimium wage (about £12k pa) all the way upto 40kpa your take home pay is very close to £34k

This is for a family with 3kids who are renting a house with £226pw rent (average for 3bed waltham forest in london)

Begs the Question. why not get a lower wage job with less hours or less responsibility. The effective Tax rate from minimium wage all the way to 30k for said family is over 90%

2 kids is very similar

It also highlights you can get part of your rent paid even if you earn upto 40k. if you earn £30k with three kids in tow you get 6.25k of your rent paid whereas with a mortgage you get naught. With two kids and 30k income you get 5.8k of your rent paid!

This information becomes apparent when you start a family.

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Not surprising at all. Makes a mockery of working.

Yup and they're taking away child benefit for those couples where _one_ partner earns over 44K(?).

So much for supporting families. Don't worry about looking after your children, you can both get out to work to pay for someone else to do it.

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Well if the employers paid proper rates and the government invested in homes 90% of this country would need handouts.

But the employers don't need to pay proper rates if the state is subsidising wages! When tax credits came in I couldn't belive they went up to such high earners - it was just Baldrick Brown trying to bribe the middle classes for votes and make many of them dependent on benefits euphemistically-named "tax credits".

Good work OP. For the "worst case" single income of £25k with 3 kids and net income of £34k it's interesting to note that the gross equivalent salary would be approx £47,300!! (The Salary Calculator). So benefits are almost doubling earnings.

Edited by mikthe20

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how long did it take to get like this?

my guess is it crept in gradually since 1996? true?

however, the new universal credit to replace the current system, with an intended marginal rate of 40% ish, comes in for new claimants in 2013, and existing claimants get phased over over 4 years or so

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0ApxTDapjy8OCdGJidkNMN2F5VDgxTXpBaVM0c1pLUkE&output=html

Seems if you earn anything from minimium wage (about £12k pa) all the way upto 40kpa your take home pay is very close to £34k

This is for a family with 3kids who are renting a house with £226pw rent (average for 3bed waltham forest in london)

Begs the Question. why not get a lower wage job with less hours or less responsibility. The effective Tax rate from minimium wage all the way to 30k for said family is over 90%

2 kids is very similar

It also highlights you can get part of your rent paid even if you earn upto 40k. if you earn £30k with three kids in tow you get 6.25k of your rent paid whereas with a mortgage you get naught. With two kids and 30k income you get 5.8k of your rent paid!

WTF are benifits ? surely you mean BENEFITS !!!? :blink:

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Well if the employers paid proper rates and the government invested in homes 90% of this country would need handouts.

Crash,

something that we can finally agree on, though I dont see how the other 10% could afford to pay for those handouts.

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Some things i have taken away from this data that is new to me and probably most of you

1: we cant afford kids

The data suggests no matter your income, if you are on minimium wage, or on 40k, you will have a very similar take home wage if you have children.

2: we want to have a house as its cheaper than renting long term.

The government will not pay your mortgage while you have a job. It will pay housing benifits towards a portion of your rent even if you earn upto 40k.

If you have 3 kids, earn 25k pa & your rent is 225pw the government will give you 7150 a year towards that. Thats £107,000 over 15 years pplus inflation.

If you purchase the same house you pay aprox 225pw in interest while you get nothing towards that. In this expamle the government gives you over 100k extra to rent

3: The marginal tax rate for families is unbelieveable.

Take a look at your own circumstances. you may well be only a tiny bit worse off if you go part time or get a lower paying job.

If example family earns £13k they get £33,930 take home while they take home 35,380 if they earn £40k.

Your job pays 3x as much but you take home less than 1500 more!

4: Second Parent working

Often this is probably not worth it unless it is part time. The marginal rate of tax for your wife getting a job is likely around 70%

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We should just get rid of child benefit completely.

christ it makes me angry.

why make everyone poor, the productivity is there its just how we distribute it.

single people will probably take a lot of shit, the old are sorted.

its families that would rip out the country if they didnt have a deccent standard of living

someone earning £15k with a family of 3 kids is likely to personally skin alive polititions if they had no benifits paid to them. instead the state gives them all the tax they take off and then another £20k to boot & then more indirectly via free services. that alows them to live ok

however the real question is, why, how, could, without the state, companies pay such a shit wage and people work it

i suppose the right wing answer is, prices would fall to the point where £15k is worth what £35k pays now

the left wing answer is prob that business would force that onto them and great that we have what we have now

im not sure how it would play out but i know somethings not right

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im not sure how it would play out but i know somethings not right

Correct

We got here slowley slowley , they took a bit more from those earning above any benefit level and gave it to those on low pay or no pay. Then as HB increased due to houses increasing they went back to the same people and took a bit more , the problem was those people they took it from had increases in their own costs due to the rising house prices. The gap has got smaller and smaller all the way up to £40k and it is still closing.

About 15 years ago I was earning £40k so was everyone I worked with and I could see a big difference in what I earn't compared to the average . Im not jesting in the circles I moved in outside of work ( average people average wages ) I kept it quite it was almost embarrising when on one or two occasions someone else let it slip out in company .

Today I earn just under the average wage , have no mortgage or rent to pay thank god , I don't drink but I do smoke and drive a new car on HP that is the only debt. I had no holiday this year and do not go out much apart from the odd cheap meal . I have no kids or wife to support and although I cannot claim poverty I do use every penny that I earn and sometimes dipp into savings from the golden days ( decreasing all the time ) . When my salary dropped like it did I wondered how people with kids and mortgage or rent managed on the low and average wages , NOW I KNOW.

Edited by miko

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