An Economic System That Fails To Meet Basic Needs

[Olebrum]

Unemployed, hungry, now when you sign on you can get a voucher for the food bank.

Without a doubt we are on the long slide to oblivion.

[LJAR]

Simple solutions exist, but they all involve short term pain and reducing the size of government.

Unfortunately that is all politically impossible, so we will continue to rape the working man in order to ensure that the bankers are protected fro their own mistakes.

[scrappycocco]

Food stamps if you don't want to work, would be a bloody good idea. Benefits for whatever is just wrong.

[200p]

Radio 4 did a piece on foodbanks. They have never been busier. A pregnant woman walked 4 miles for food. Another man had been sleeping in the local park for the last 6 weeks had also been using the food bank.

Ah here's the show http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014f4w1

Count your blessings.

[porca misèria]

Unemployed, hungry, now when you sign on you can get a voucher for the food bank.

Without a doubt we are on the long slide to oblivion.

This season is an easy time to feed yourself, money or no. Blackberries galore!

Back in 2003 when I was genuinely poor, I was collecting and eating them right into late November!

[winkie]

This season is an easy time to feed yourself, money or no. Blackberries galore!

Back in 2003 when I was genuinely poor, I was collecting and eating them right into late November!

Home made blackberry vinegar...can highly recommend it.

[The XYY Man]

This season is an easy time to feed yourself, money or no. Blackberries galore!

Back in 2003 when I was genuinely poor, I was collecting and eating them right into late November!

No doubt that's probably illegal nowadays, or at the very least will attract the zealots from the Health and Safety Stasi due to those "dangerous" thorns.

And make sure you cook them for at least 8 weeks at gas mark 900, or you might die horribly from (Wilfred) Bramble's Syndrome...you dirty old man!!!

XYY

[CrashConnoisseur]

Food stamps if you don't want to work, would be a bloody good idea. Benefits for whatever is just wrong.

A major barrier to unemployed people finding work (if it's available) is a lack of self-esteem. Many people who are unemployed suffer from depression. Humiliating them further and stigmatising them when they go shopping isn't likely to be at all helpful in enabling them to find a job. Rather it's likely to cause increased mental health problems resulting in yet higher costs to social services and the NHS.

The cost of running the JobCentres [1]* is already not far short of the total paid out in Jobseeker's Allowance [2]. The last thing they need is more additional bureaucracy and complexity.

For these reasons (and more) food stamps are an utterly stupid idea.

What's needed is a Citizens Income to replace most income-replacement benefits, Tax Credits, and personal income tax allowances. Uprate it in-line with an Essentials Price Index (EPI) to ensure everyone has enough to feed themselves.

1. 'Jobcentre Plus Annual Report and Accounts 2010-11':

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc1012/hc11/1165/1165.pdf

Results for the year

The Statement of Comprehensive Net Expenditure shows the net operating cost of Jobcentre Plus.

The net operating cost amounted to £3,565.7m (2009-10 restated: £3,741.6m). Capital expenditure for the year, full details of which are given in Notes to the Accounts 7 and 8, amounted to £58.1m (2009-10: £46.2m).

2. 'Working-age ‘welfare’: who gets it, why, and what it costs':

http://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/files/jrf/working-age-welfare-summary.pdf

Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) : Projected expenditure 2010/11 : [£4.6bn].

* This running cost doesn't include the cost to claimants in getting to and from the JobCentre, etc..

[wonderpup]

Food stamps if you don't want to work, would be a bloody good idea. Benefits for whatever is just wrong.

Will these be accepted in return for bus fares, haircuts, shampoo, razor blades clothing ect- or do you imagine the unemployed will become more employable if they are unable to travel to job interviews, or turn up to interviews dressed in rags with long hair and unshaven faces?

If the aim is to get people into work this might not be such a good idea as it seems.

[_w_]

Unemployed, hungry, now when you sign on you can get a voucher for the food bank.

Without a doubt we are on the long slide to oblivion.

Am I reading this correctly, 1.7 million people got a loan for food? Is this the new market debt peddlers have been dreaming of?

The total given emergency food boxes will rise from 61,000 in 2010 to an estimated 100,000 this year, according to the trust, which predicts that half a million Britons will need help by 2015. The latest available figures reveal that, in 2008-09 in England and Wales, almost 2.4 million people applied for crisis loans. Only 1.7 million received an initial award, meaning almost 700,000 were left waiting for a loan or had their applications turned down.

[_w_]

No doubt that's probably illegal nowadays, or at the very least will attract the zealots from the Health and Safety Stasi due to those "dangerous" thorns.

I'm sure feral rats stealing berries from the good 4X4 driving savings challenged citizens of this country deserve at least 6 months jail.

[_w_]

Will these be accepted in return for bus fares, haircuts, shampoo, razor blades clothing ect- or do you imagine the unemployed will become more employable if they are unable to travel to job interviews, or turn up to interviews dressed in rags with long hair and unshaven faces?

If the aim is to get people into work this might not be such a good idea as it seems.

Something needs to be done to stop a minority from abusing benefits. This could be a lesser evil.

[rented]

Am I reading this correctly, 1.7 million people got a loan for food? Is this the new market debt peddlers have been dreaming of?

Could be that 1.7 million crisis loans were issued rather than 1.7m separate people claiming for a crisis loan. Ditto the 100,000 food boxes might be an average of more than one food box per person who uses the service over the year rather than representing 100,000 individuals who got 1 food box each over a year.

ETA: Not that 1.7m crisis loans is any way good. There's a max of 3 crisis loans in 12 months and has to be paid back out of JSA/other benefits.

Edited September 18, 2011 by rented

[nmarks]

It's not an economy, it's an enronomy.

Ergo:

Enronomic

Enronomics

Enronomical

Socio-Enronomic

etc.

Plutocracy is rule by corporations, but that's not what we've got. We don't have a democracy either, we have a kakocracy - rule by criminals. Kapeesh? Carry On Grazing.

PS Has anyone here ever fired a 50 Cal hand weapon before?

[_w_]

Could be that 1.7 million crisis loans were issued rather than 1.7m separate people claiming for a crisis loan. Ditto the 100,000 food boxes might be an average of more than one food box per person who uses the service over the year rather than representing 100,000 individuals who got 1 food box each over a year.

ETA: Not that 1.7m crisis loans is any way good. There's a max of 3 crisis loans in 12 months and has to be paid back out of JSA/other benefits.

Thanks, I didn't know these things even existed. Sounds like payday loans, I wonder hat the interest is on these.

[wonderpup]

Something needs to be done to stop a minority from abusing benefits. This could be a lesser evil.

Fine so long as no one then complains that the unemployed are unemployed- because a food stamp only regime is effectively an admission by the state that the recipients are never going to work again- as they will not need access to public transport or even basic personal hygiene products like soap, replacement clothing or haircuts-so no job interviews ever again.

Like most right wing fantasies regarding the final solution to the unemployment problem these ideas seldom survive contact with any degree of critical analysis.

The focus on benefit fraud is a distraction from the real and growing problem that we seem as a society to be unable to both provide work for a large number of people or devise a coherent response to this reality.

Simply recycling arguments about abuse or failures of the 'work ethic' don't really cut it.

[PopGun]

Simple solutions exist, but they all involve short term pain and reducing the size of government.

Unfortunately that is all politically impossible, so we will continue to rape the working man in order to ensure that the bankers are protected fro their own mistakes.

Reduce the state by all means, but why won't people mention the simultaneous requirement to combat the increasing scourge of corporatism?

There's two burgeoning malignant parasites out there, not just one.

Edited September 20, 2011 by PopGun

[Self Employed Youth]

Thanks, I didn't know these things even existed. Sounds like payday loans, I wonder hat the interest is on these.

They are interest free. Or at least they were.

[ccc]

I agree with the citizens income idea. On predicted stats each person in the UK could have £333 per month with no extra cost on today. This doesn't include the massive benefits and cost cutting of getting rid of masses of public sector workers and red tape.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/government_expenditure.html

Two main 'problems' with this.

(1) It would ultimately lead to much lower property prices as the 'base' would be significantly lowered. Lots of very powerful people, including politicians, would be very against this. Even if in the long term if was clearly benefitical to the country.

(2) The public sector workers would be in enraged by 'their jobs and pensions' being taken away. Again this lot holds a lot of power in this country. Same as above - the lopng term benefits would be ignored.

Shame - as I think the overall idea/principle is really good. Much better than what we have today anyway.

[Lepista]

A days picking can net a few grands worth of balckberries

Er... that is just plain rubbish. Unless you have a fleet of tractors with automatic blackberrypluckermobiles attached to the back of them, and fields full of cultivated blackberries.