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Daily Mail Tries To Make You Angry About Benefits Scroungers

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038403/SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-Can-spot-dole-cheat-Eight-appear-court-single-day-NONE-jailed.html

This is basically a big Daily Mail piece recounting a day sitting in on benefits fraud cases in front of magistrates.

As part of the middle class you're supposed to get all worked up about it but, I can't help feeling it's the fault of the system.

You've got examples of people who claimed when they hadn't declared savings - so effectively were otherwise denied jobseekers because they hadn't spunked all their money away.

You've also got single mothers not declaring they're living with a partner - can't hardly blame them, if partner walks they've got the faff of re-applying again and the state's effectively financially incentivising single parent/adult households - no wonder there's a housing shortage.

Anyone here as outraged as The Mail that no-one's been locked up?

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You've also got single mothers not declaring they're living with a partner...

Probably just wanted to keep her "personal life private".

... - can't hardly blame them, if partner walks they've got the faff of re-applying again and the state's effectively financially incentivising single parent/adult households - no wonder there's a housing shortage.

Not just incentivising them, but by capping total benefits per household, for some it will make it a necessity.

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It's just an article to make people scared. :o

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038403/SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-Can-spot-dole-cheat-Eight-appear-court-single-day-NONE-jailed.html

This is basically a big Daily Mail piece recounting a day sitting in on benefits fraud cases in front of magistrates.

As part of the middle class you're supposed to get all worked up about it but, I can't help feeling it's the fault of the system.

You've got examples of people who claimed when they hadn't declared savings - so effectively were otherwise denied jobseekers because they hadn't spunked all their money away.

You've also got single mothers not declaring they're living with a partner - can't hardly blame them, if partner walks they've got the faff of re-applying again and the state's effectively financially incentivising single parent/adult households - no wonder there's a housing shortage.

Anyone here as outraged as The Mail that no-one's been locked up?

I think we are angry about the system. We do understand why they do it. There is little sanction against this sort of fraud.

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I think we are angry about the system. We do understand why they do it. There is little sanction against this sort of fraud.

There is even less sanctions against the bilion/trilion pound fraud perpetrated every day by the banksters against the rest of us...

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There is even less sanctions against the bilion/trilion pound fraud perpetrated every day by the banksters against the rest of us...

Yes, all fraud is wrong, and I haven't seen the big UK banker frauds even face trial.

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I wonder if they were expecting the cases to be far more brazen and egregious than what was witnessed.

Rather than a small number of offenders claiming enormous amounts and living it up with countless foreign holidays, it seems to be people who were valid claimants whose circumstances may have changed and they've not informed the authorities.

The amounts involved seem to typically be less than a typical MP spent, with taxpayer's cash, in John Lewis on a chair. The problem is, for the country, it's like a death by a thousand cuts, with this endemic small scale benefits fraud at seemingly epidemic proportions.

I do think they should introduce a transitional period when people come off many types of benefits as it could be possible that the sudden drop in income deters many from notifying changes of circumstance, possibly on some pro-rata to the period they've been claiming basis but, coupled with a more robust inspection of claims.

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The amounts involved seem to typically be less than a typical MP spent, with taxpayer's cash, in John Lewis on a chair. The problem is, for the country, it's like a death by a thousand cuts, with this endemic small scale benefits fraud at seemingly epidemic proportions.

Never mind the thousand tiny cuts, focus on the huge cancer that's the banking system, that's what's killing this country (and most of the western world).

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I wonder if they were expecting the cases to be far more brazen and egregious than what was witnessed.

Rather than a small number of offenders claiming enormous amounts and living it up with countless foreign holidays, it seems to be people who were valid claimants whose circumstances may have changed and they've not informed the authorities.

The amounts involved seem to typically be less than a typical MP spent, with taxpayer's cash, in John Lewis on a chair. The problem is, for the country, it's like a death by a thousand cuts, with this endemic small scale benefits fraud at seemingly epidemic proportions.

I do think they should introduce a transitional period when people come off many types of benefits as it could be possible that the sudden drop in income deters many from notifying changes of circumstance, possibly on some pro-rata to the period they've been claiming basis but, coupled with a more robust inspection of claims.

Benefit fraud is rife. At some point you just have to end it.

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Benefit fraud is rife. At some point you just have to end it.

The system needs to be replaced by a basic income, it can solve the demand problem, the benefit trap and be cheaper to administer. One flat tax rate. Basic income determined by size of family unit.

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Never mind the thousand tiny cuts, focus on the huge cancer that's the banking system, that's what's killing this country (and most of the western world).

Maybe, in a way.

I suspect it's the conclusion of coming off the gold standard, expansionist monetary policies and possibly, in some way, the decline of the use of physical cash.

Money now seemingly has no value and it's become almost completely detached from labour in any traditional sense.

Banks have pushed money all over the place, like valueless electronic tokens, and when they've run out governments and their central banks have obliged by pouring in ever more. Whilst, simultaneously, directing some more to their own workforce and other large sections of society they're either too lazy, or electorally gutless, to educate properly or create genuinely productive work for.

The public are complicit too, turning a blind eye, and endorsing it, by majority, every five years. They can't ignore the fact the government's been painting lead ingots gold forever and I don't think we're getting that far off the day of reckoning.

Edited by Soon Not a Chain Retailer

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Benefit fraud is rife. At some point you just have to end it.

The problem is that the one implies the other. It's easy to obey the rules and do the right thing thing when you don't live on the edge of disaster- people in the main commit these frauds for the same reason they claim in the first place- they either don't have any money- or want to hang on to what little they do have.

Some kind of basic guaranteed income at the bottom has to be the way to go- then instead of these people being benefit fraudsters they would be magically transformed into entrepreneurs!

At present the system actively punishes those who would improve their lot by by taking away the benefit as soon as they get off the ground.

The truth is that we have never got past the suspicion that poverty is a crime and the benefits system ought to have some kind of punitive function embedded in it- as a result it serves only to perpetuate itself and it's 'customers'.

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Tax evasion costs Treasury 15 times more than benefit fraud

At £30 billion per year, fraud in the UK is more than twice as high as thought, with tax evasion costing the public purse over £15 billion per year and benefit fraud just over £1 billion.

By an odd quirk of fate I keep missing those articles the mail no doubt runs concerning it's outrage on the 15 billion lost through tax evasion. :lol:

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The problem is that the one implies the other. It's easy to obey the rules and do the right thing thing when you don't live on the edge of disaster- people in the main commit these frauds for the same reason they claim in the first place- they either don't have any money- or want to hang on to what little they do have.

Some kind of basic guaranteed income at the bottom has to be the way to go- then instead of these people being benefit fraudsters they would be magically transformed into entrepreneurs!

At present the system actively punishes those who would improve their lot by by taking away the benefit as soon as they get off the ground.

The truth is that we have never got past the suspicion that poverty is a crime and the benefits system ought to have some kind of punitive function embedded in it- as a result it serves only to perpetuate itself and it's 'customers'.

Poverty isn't a crime but it also isn't necessarily always the rest of society's fault.

If you read the cases they're not really what you describe in your first paragraph. Certainly cases like claiming jobseekers and failing to disclose assets aren't. They will either see the system as unfair so claim anyway, similarly to looters see everyone else claiming and decide to join in or possibly they might just be greedy efforts who'll take any pecuniary advantage, that comes their way, if they think they can get away with it.

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By an odd quirk of fate I keep missing those articles the mail no doubt runs concerning it's outrage on the 15 billion lost through tax evasion. :lol:

They do have quite a few of those, I've noticed, provided the person involved has personal wealth a suitable order of magnitude above that of the average Daily Mail reader.

Edit to add:

Tax evasion isn't really analogous to benefits fraud. Something like VAT carousel fraud would be.

Tax evaders are putting in less than what the government would like to force them to by law whereas benefits fraud is just purely taking out.

There's the argument that if the tax evader wasn't operating in the market the exchequer would be receiving the revenue they've been missing from a legitimate trader but, the very fact HMRC cuts deals with big multi-nationals sort of suggests they don't actually believe this at all.

Edited by Soon Not a Chain Retailer

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Poverty isn't a crime but it also isn't necessarily always the rest of society's fault.

If you read the cases they're not really what you describe in your first paragraph. Certainly cases like claiming jobseekers and failing to disclose assets aren't. They will either see the system as unfair so claim anyway, similarly to looters see everyone else claiming and decide to join in or possibly they might just be greedy efforts who'll take any pecuniary advantage, that comes their way, if they think they can get away with it.

Sure- fraud is everywhere-I even read that GP's are claiming for phantom patients,or people that have died. But to pretend that benefit fraud is somehow in a special class, as the mail seems to do, is wrong.

I would argue that fraud amongst the poor is less evil than fraud at the top, committed by people who have in many cases had many advantages and gifts given them by society anyway- but want still more.

Yet I don't see the mail screaming about these crimes- somehow white collar crime is committed by 'nice'people who have made a 'mistake'.

The mail will soon lose readers anyway as more and more of it's supporters discover that a life on benefits is not quite the distant prospect they once fondly imagined.

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Tax evaders are putting in less than what the government would like to force them to by law whereas benefits fraud is just purely taking out.

The argument is invalid since the objection to benefit fraud is that it deprives the taxpayer of his money- the same taxpayer is being deprived by those who don't pay their taxes.

As for taking out- anyone who lives in the UK, is 'taking out' if they don't pay taxes to fund the country. I have no doubt whatsoever that even the most hardened tax evader would be on the phone to the police in seconds if his life or property were threatened.

If- as the mail claims- the issue is taxpayer losses then tax evasion is the logical target, since the ROI is much better. But in truth the issue is about stoking hate and distracting the population form the real threat to their prosperity- the feral rich.

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  • 333 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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